Wright writes.....

[corneliuslundie]

On the other hand, it was only the actual track areas where the ballast was replenished, so over the years the cess and surrounding areas would get a nice patina of age which for a while would make any new ballast seem very light in colour. And often only one line of two or four would have new ballast at any particular time.

 

Jonathan

[t-b-g]

What shows in the prototype photos is that the individual stones of the ballast vary from light to dark. It is actually very difficult to paint or weather model ballast to get that effect.

 

One thing that does work is to use a mix of different ballasts at the outset. Too late for anybody with the ballasting already done but worth thinking about for anybody about to do some.

 

I have been working on one layout recently and the owner spent a lot of time trying various mixes of commercial ballasts plus "secret" ingredients.

 

One of the most effective additives, which is highly politically incorrect, was ground up cigarette ash!

 

That mixed with two Woodland Scenics fine ballasts gave a lovely finish which doesn't need any fuirther weathering. We varied the mix in some places, so where locos stand had a much higher proportion of the darkest stuff. The sleepers were also painted in varying shades before ballasting, which allows a contrast between the sleeper and ballast colours that you don't get if you lay the track and ballast and then paint them together without a great deal of hard work almost painting each individual sleeper.

[coachmann]

I think it depends on how close one looks at detail and one's layout. Personally I go in for the broad brush both as regards scenics and weathering. I have done the weathered grey sleeper bit with rusty rails and blackened chairs while wearing specs, but my efforts were wasted because without specs my eyesight is like the bloke meeting his wife in Hal's bar.

Edited September 22, 2015 by coachmann

[Focalplane]

My current project in France is now an 0 gauge representation of a Midland (region) shed.  This is still in the planning stages, the 4mm version having been transported to England and is temporarily in store.  Don't ask why!  One aspect about engine sheds is that the ballast is a finer grade and near black with coal dust, oil, stained ash and general aging of the original ballast.  Even the original ballast may not have been what we could call "standard" grade.

 

I own an American book (Detailing Track by Mike Cougill) on track detailing and the author recommends mixing several colors of ballast of a finer grade than typically recommended for the scale.  Light grey, medium grey and buff can be mixed one third of each and the mixture labelled for future reference.  This is the basis but variations are essential.  Heavier staining on grades, at platform ends, down the center of the tracks and so on.  I can recommend this book to anyone who is seriously considering having their ballast more than a foundation for running trains.  The author is an 0 gauge modeler but his insight can be applied to any scale.

 

ISBN 978-0-9746143-2-8

[Herbert Nigel]

Ballast. It's a dirty word. Only ever clean when new laid as, I'm afraid, from experience with the 12 inch to the foot stuff, the rust from rail and fastenings takes no time whatsoever to begin to cause discolouration. Then you have all the dirt from those engines (diesels NOT excepted) dropping from passing trains and the rather less frequently mentioned human detritus, that even today is still far too often still deposited upon the convenient "empty" space under a train. You soon have a dirty, brown tinted ballast formation no matter which quarry the ballast originally came from.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Herbert Nigel

[Focalplane]

The London end of the up platform at Taunton is locally famous for the tomato plants that spring up between the tracks. Where the seeds came from is anyone's guess. Some say the first class toilets but I think it may have been a joke by the station staff.

[coachmann]

The London end of the up platform at Taunton is locally famous for the tomato plants that spring up between the tracks. Where the seeds came from is anyone's guess. Some say the first class toilets but I think it may have been a joke by the station staff.

It's like when yer sick and it's always diced carrots. I never et a carrot in me life.

[John Isherwood]

The London end of the up platform at Taunton is locally famous for the tomato plants that spring up between the tracks. Where the seeds came from is anyone's guess. Some say the first class toilets but I think it may have been a joke by the station staff.

 

Every chance it's true - the most prolific, best tasting tomatoes that I ever ate came from the sludge-drying bed of the Cambridge sewerage works !!

 

It is a well-known fact that tomato seed is still viable after passing through the human digestive tract.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Mallard60022]

It's like when yer sick and it's always diced carrots. I never et a carrot in me life.

Hate to tell you this but the orange bits in puke a more often bits of gut lining; sorry to be disgusting.

Dr .Foster.

[Mallard60022]

The London end of the up platform at Taunton is locally famous for the tomato plants that spring up between the tracks. Where the seeds came from is anyone's guess. Some say the first class toilets but I think it may have been a joke by the station staff.

Don't mention that in MRJ or at Scaleforum 'cause you know what will happen.........................................

P

[Mallard60022]

Every chance it's true - the most prolific, best tasting tomatoes that I ever ate came from the sludge-drying bed of the Cambridge sewerage works !!

 

It is a well-known fact that tomato seed is still viable after passing through the human digestive tract.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

There is, I am told, a fad for Coffee that has been processed from beans that have passed through  Civets. It would seem that these beasts only choose the finest beans to consume (can't be eat as the beans come out whole....)

Again, apologies; I am in medical and consumer information mode at the moment.

Best 'Ballast' I've seen was in the pub up the road from TW's layout. Tasted really good too.

Phil 

[Stanley Melrose]

Back in the 1960s when I worked for a well-known car manufacturer at their Dagenham Plant, there was a product from the local Rainham sewage works called "DagFert".  It was famous for producing tomato plants wherever it was used, especially in the middle 0f flower beds - to the amazement of first-time purchasers of the product.

 

Stan

 

 

Every chance it's true - the most prolific, best tasting tomatoes that I ever ate came from the sludge-drying bed of the Cambridge sewerage works !!

 

It is a well-known fact that tomato seed is still viable after passing through the human digestive tract.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

The following views were taken on Little Bytham after Norman Solomon had laid and ballasted the track (apologies if one of these has appeared before), prior to my installing the wiring and laying all the fiddle yard track. 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion this is 'perfect' (or at least as perfect as any OO trackwork can be) and weathering/distressing was undertaken (and will be) with the greatest care so as not to defile such beautiful work. Note how we engineered the main line to go offstage on the straight, underneath bridges. This was essential to retain credibility, despite it being just over a foot short of being dead scale. I'm giving a talk at the Warley Show on accommodating a main line prototype, where aspects such as this will be considered.

 

Tomatoes? The most luscious grew in or around the filter beds of Chester's sewage works in Sealand Road, right by the Dee. Nobody ate them!

 

How much more diverse can this thread get? 

[Focalplane]

 

How much more diverse can this thread get? 

Sorry, Tony, I just sowed a few seeds and look what happened!

 

Trying hard to get back on topic, here is the location with a London bound HST arriving from Exeter.  No tomatoes between the rails but some vegetation in the wide space left between the old broad gauge tracks.

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I think it depends on how close one looks at detail and one's layout. Personally I go in for the broad brush ...

This is a significant decision to make in modelling. Is it broad brush impressionism, or every last detail?

 

The circa 1960 ECML track formation out in the country had a dull grey brown look, with the railheads as shiny strips. That's the impression I want. A freshly ballasted length 'popped out' against this: the stone almost looked white in bright summer sunshine, and a very pale pink-grey in cloudy bright lighting.

 

If you looked closely then the ballast was one tone, sleepers another, railsides yet again a different tone, etc., and all of them with variations, including the lovely off-white strips of bumf. But that's not what these eyes were interested in; the beautiful things doing the dirt distribution was what we went to gape at.

[raymw]

Going back to the more interesting off topic postings, There is a difference between raw sewage and the stuff sold for growing tomatoes, but I would not want to eat cops grown from either. A farm near here spreads the raw stuff on his fields, but he lives the other side of town, so doesn't get the smell. The official UK line is here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/managing-sewage-sludge-slurry-and-silage but there are plenty of references elsewhere as to how inadequate the treatment of the sludge can be. Enjoy your tea....

[APOLLO]

Looking at the first two pictures (prototype & model) of the Pullman trains above, what stands out (in the photos) is the bits of junk and clutter missing from your fine layout. The two lengths of rail lying on two timbers not parallel, other rails alongside the track on the left, odd bits & pieces here and there, point rodding both alongside and under the tracks. Ballast tone varies too as discussed.

 

In no way am I criticising, just observing the overall difference between the two pictures. Perhaps you already plan to add similar finishing touches (should edit out the finishing - we're never finished are we ?).

 

Again it can be a difficult choice to weather things that have had many careful hours of work spent on them, such as your track work.

 

To me, it looks quite good "as is"

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

Looking at the first two pictures (prototype & model) of the Pullman trains above, what stands out (in the photos) is the bits of junk and clutter missing from your fine layout. The two lengths of rail lying on two timbers not parallel, other rails alongside the track on the left, odd bits & pieces here and there, point rodding both alongside and under the tracks. Ballast tone varies too as discussed.

 

In no way am I criticising, just observing the overall difference between the two pictures. Perhaps you already plan to add similar finishing touches (should edit out the finishing - we're never finished are we ?).

 

Again it can be a difficult choice to weather things that have had many careful hours of work spent on them, such as your track work.

 

To me, it looks quite good "as is"

 

Brit15

Many thanks,

 

It is my intention to add the 'clutter'. Since the model picture was taken (over two years ago) much more has already been done. I've started on the point rodding and fixed the point levers for the hand-operated points (dummies, of course). Roy Vinter has started making the ground signals (more horse-trading) and Ian Wilson is working on the footbridge (even more horse-trading). Areas of ballast/infill have also been weathered/distressed. As you say, though, it'll never really be finished. 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Not really relevant to the thread, but I felt an urge to show that not all railways neglect their infrastructure to the (to me at least) shocking extent of the current British railway scene.

 

Imagine if you will, that you are many many miles from the nearest civilisation, way out in the boonies where even the 'roads' are unmade rutted mud traps laced with axle breaking rocks...

 

And then you see this manicured permanent way of almost steam-age neatness.  

 

 

Points to note; this is not recently laid track, so the general neatness and tidiness is down to a sympathetic maintenance regime, not newness.  The rails are a light rust colour, and the ballast is not one solid colour, but mainly two distinct shades.  There is a 'patina' of weathering over the whole thing but it's far from filthy even though it's pretty heavily trafficked.  The high quality can't even be attributed to a benign climate.  This location is around 7500 feet above sea level, temperatures in the high 90s in summer and heavy snow in winter.  It rains a lot, with severe thunderstorms, UV levels are high and the wind blows incessantly.

 

It's just beautifully maintained by people who care. I wish our railways were the same.  

[polybear]

Hate to tell you this but the orange bits in puke a more often bits of gut lining; sorry to be disgusting.

Dr .Foster.

Oh delightful.....thanks for that little nuggett....

So when someone says they "chucked their guts up last night" they weren't kidding.....

[grob1234]

The following views were taken on Little Bytham after Norman Solomon had laid and ballasted the track (apologies if one of these has appeared before), prior to my installing the wiring and laying all the fiddle yard track. 

 

trackwork 28 trackwork down.jpg

 

trackwork 29 trackwork down.jpg

 

trackwork 30 trackwork down.jpg

 

In my opinion this is 'perfect' (or at least as perfect as any OO trackwork can be) and weathering/distressing was undertaken (and will be) with the greatest care so as not to defile such beautiful work. Note how we engineered the main line to go offstage on the straight, underneath bridges. This was essential to retain credibility, despite it being just over a foot short of being dead scale. I'm giving a talk at the Warley Show on accommodating a main line prototype, where aspects such as this will be considered.

 

Tomatoes? The most luscious grew in or around the filter beds of Chester's sewage works in Sealand Road, right by the Dee. Nobody ate them!

 

How much more diverse can this thread get? 

 

Hi Tony,

 

How are you? I hope you're well?

 

Very interesting to see LB as it was compared to how it looks now. When were these pictures taken? Also, what is the white/grey underlay that I see beneath the tracks?

 

I don't know if you remember the LNER Coronation kit I brought along to show you when I visited? Well, I have finally mastered the art of white metal soldering.... Turns out its very easy if you have the right kit, which my new soldering station seems to be. In fact I'd go as far as to say white metal is easier to solder than brass! Anyhow, this was a vital skill to ensure a good quality build, and means I can hopefully make some more progress after the project stalled for a couple of months. Why do I mention this? Well, I'm completely self taught in terms of soldering, but I read about it watched videos, persevered, made plenty of cock-ups, but now I feel pretty confident with my technique. Actually, I find it easy, without meaning to sound like I am boasting, its just such a great way of sticking metal together! The great thing is that once you have the hang of it, the possibilities are endless. With my new found confidence I am determined that my next project will be a locomotive. So, which one? I'd like an LNER freight engine (something without lining in black will be much easier for me to finish!) and maybe one that isn't available in RTR format. Any suggestions? 

 

Sorry for the thread hijack, but hopefully it fits within the general theme of discussion!

 

Cheers!

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony,

 

How are you? I hope you're well?

 

Very interesting to see LB as it was compared to how it looks now. When were these pictures taken? Also, what is the white/grey underlay that I see beneath the tracks?

 

I don't know if you remember the LNER Coronation kit I brought along to show you when I visited? Well, I have finally mastered the art of white metal soldering.... Turns out its very easy if you have the right kit, which my new soldering station seems to be. In fact I'd go as far as to say white metal is easier to solder than brass! Anyhow, this was a vital skill to ensure a good quality build, and means I can hopefully make some more progress after the project stalled for a couple of months. Why do I mention this? Well, I'm completely self taught in terms of soldering, but I read about it watched videos, persevered, made plenty of cock-ups, but now I feel pretty confident with my technique. Actually, I find it easy, without meaning to sound like I am boasting, its just such a great way of sticking metal together! The great thing is that once you have the hang of it, the possibilities are endless. With my new found confidence I am determined that my next project will be a locomotive. So, which one? I'd like an LNER freight engine (something without lining in black will be much easier for me to finish!) and maybe one that isn't available in RTR format. Any suggestions? 

 

Sorry for the thread hijack, but hopefully it fits within the general theme of discussion!

 

Cheers!

Tom,

 

Hijack away. 

 

The shots were taken in spring (have you noticed how the seasons are now considered proper nouns by some? - sorry, teacher-mode) 2008, and the grey stuff is high-density foam (for insulation, I believe). The foam gives a perfect track-base, with sound-deadening properties as well. 

 

I'm glad you've mastered soldering (of all kinds). Many never, preferring to glue solderable (is there such a word?) metal components together. It's the crucial skill in many aspects of modelling in my view - obviously for wiring and track-making, but with the different types of solder, essential for etched brass/nickel silver or white metal construction. When I do demonstrations, soldering is the technique folk ask me to do the most. It's obviously not for the 'non-brave' in some respects. Fingers get burned (live with it!) and the nasal passages and lungs can take a beating from the flux fumes, but no medium fixes metal models so securely. Yes, nuts and bolts and screws are of use, but they're nowhere near as universal. In the larger scales, there's always welding as well. Master soldering, and the railway modelling world is your oyster. 

 

An LNER freight engine not available RTR? 

 

A J6, I'd say, available from London Road Models (maybe as well from SE Finecast before long), or any of the other GNR 0-6-0s which are available. A J17 or J19 (PDK?) or what about the various NER sorts? 0-6-0s are the easiest to build to begin with.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Tony. 

[jwealleans]

Sound advice as ever from Tony. I was going to suggest looking at the reintroduced NuCast range if you want a whitemetal body, or either PDK or Arthur Kimber for a brass one. I've built the Crownline/PDK J17 and J19 and they both came out nicely, while Arthur's J73 almost assembled itself. Don't go near the NuCast Q6, though - horribly misproportioned.

 

The critical part of the whole thing is the chassis and drivetrain - for a gentle start, maybe a J72 body and the Comet chassis kit? Once you've mastered chassis building then almost the whole gamut of kits opens up (until you pluck up the courage to try outside Walschaerts valve gear, when you can tackle almost anything).

 

My first etched loco was a Craftsman A5 - I'm not sure whether they're still available from Craftsman, but very common on Ebay and second hand.

 

Don't look far past High Level for your gearboxes, they're by far the easiest around to assemble and make run smoothly.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Master soldering, and the railway modelling world is your oyster. 

 

Printed out in large bold font, attached to train shed wall.  

 

Eventually will be shamed into just getting on with soldering.  Tried it a few times, so far - terrible.  

[coachmann]

I fall out of bed and start soldering and its often the last thing I am doing before sitting down at 9pm to watch a recorded cowboy movie. But first and foremost I am a painter and finish is my prime concern, therefore I would not touch a whitemetal kit with a bargepole.