Wright writes.....

[coachmann]

I do most of my lining with cellulose paint now. As for enamel paints, I wouldn't recommend Humbrol to my worst enemy and have switched to Precision Paints and Railmatch. 

[coachmann]

 

You, Larry, a part of the few. I assume you've had 'disasters' but confidence and skill allow you to produce such professional results. Why can't I, and others like me? The following list is a reasonable guide, I think. 

 

1. The aerosol can chooses to splutter just at the crucial point, as does the airbrush. Practising beforehand on pre-primed test material is a waste of time - other than the results will be perfect. 

 

2. Every insect in the vicinity becomes immediately suicidal, and chooses to land on the paint. 

 

3. Though the local atmosphere might appear 'clean', tiny particles of dust, detritus and specks instantly cluster like a malignant 'swarm', settling onto the perfect surface.

 

4. Even if the paint has (most unusually) gone on properly, it stubbornly refuses to dry or turns milky.

 

5. The bow pen runs out just before the completion of a line; if not, it blobs. 

 

6. Add to this list whatever else has happened to the non-good-at-painting brigade. You are not alone!

Throughout my career I always used primer out of aerosols but colours were bought in pint tins so I could mix railway colours. 'Disasters' in the early days were down to very poor primer paint leading to masking tape pulling paint of aluminium coach bodies. It took a while to find a reliable primer and low-tack tape, both of which became unobtainable in recent years. Halford Acid *8 etch primer is the best I have ever used. 

 

Pesky Insects landing on models while spraying did occur but cellulose dried rapidly and it was merely a case of rubbing the insect down and given the model another coat. The 'trick' with spraying is to keep all the model wet at the same time, which requires right consistency and working fast.

 

Always load a bow-pen with enough paint for the line. If the line momentarily stops, carry on and attend to the gap later. The Kern bow pens and compasses I invested heavily in around 1973 are still in use today. Prior to this I started in 1962 with a bow-compass that was passed to me on my paternal grandfather's death. His son my Uncle Harry, who was a draughtsman, had taken all the good stuff so thank goodness he left this one item in the drawer!

Edited August 22, 2015 by coachmann

[John Isherwood]

The motors I'm using are indeed from Cambridge Custom Transfers, from which source they are considerably more attractively priced than any Mashimas that I've seen for sale. Thanks to the enquiring mind of a local fellow model maker, who it seems is not the only one to have looked beyond the obvious, I also have an identical looking motor, all bar the Mitsumi label, obtained as part of a small batch for less than £1 per motor! I'm not going to reveal sources, those determined to get the lowest possible price can no doubt find it if they look hard enough. John Isherwood at CCT has done the work of finding the motors, taking the risk of buying in stock, sourcing suitable mounting screws, removing the inappropriate worms with which they are originally supplied, checking that they work and supplying customers with a little bit of information on how to mount the motors, so his price is not unreasonable.

 

The gears I'm using are another skinflint's delight, part of a pack of moulded white (nylon?) gears purchased from Squires for £4.99, including suitable un-cut shafts, containing sufficient gears for several locos or other projects.

The snag is that the gears are 2mm bore nominal as supplied, the motor shafts are 1.5mm, but a piece of 2mm O/D, 1.5mm I/D brass tube solves that problem very nicely.

 

The gears which are fitted to the Mitsumi motors that I currently source; (you can get them sans gears, but at a higher price); and which I remove, just happen to be a perfect match for the old Tri-ang Hornby gear and two of the three Hornby Dublo / Wrenn gears that Wrenn are currently featuring in their stock clearance; http://www.gandr-wrenn.co.uk/parts_and_spares.htm; see " Gear Wheel - Loco Gear Wheels for Castle, 8F and 08 (Castle & 08 drilled & threaded)".

 

The HD / Wrenn ones are superb gears, (two of the three with double grub-screw tapped 8BA holes in the boss), and with a Mitsumi motor and worm require no secondary gearing to produce perfectly smooth, quiet and controllable running. I can supply the worms with the motors for £1.00 extra per motor; no additional P&P.

 

It is true that these motors can be sourced more cheaply if you want to purchase a quantity, and are prepared to take a risk with the supplier. The one batch that I ordered from a secondary supplier produced 10% of the quantity I had ordered; the supplier claimed that he'd "made a mistake" with the listing, and had intended to sell 2 units per lot, not 20 as per his listing !!

 

I've found an honest and reliable supplier and will stick with him.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[corneliuslundie]

This is not by any means the first time on RMWeb that Humbrol paints have received very adverse comments. I have had problems with matt black not being matt and varnish clouding, but they are minor. But when the likes of the regular contributors to this thread are having problems there is obviously something wrong with the product. I don't know if Simon K of Hornby follows RMWeb but if he doesn't should we ask Andy Y to get him to read it so that something can be done before it damages Hornby's reputation.

 

Jonathan David

[Focalplane]

I am beginning to understand why many North Americans collect Japanese/Korean brass locomotives and never paint them. Having said that, I have used various North American paints and have had few problems, though this was well over twenty years ago. It would appear that reformulations to cater to various EU directives may be the cause of the problems outlined in recent posts.

 

In which case, do as the French do - it doesn't apply to us so we won't adopt it. it would appear that a directive is not an order or an act of law that has to be obeyed.

[edcayton]

I'm guessing that legislation is forcing changes to the chemical contents of paints and hence the changes in colour and performance. Certainly the case with automotive paints.

 

Ed

[coachmann]

It isn't an EU directive for companies to start producing ######. Paint that doesn't do what it says on the tin is miss-labelling, miss-selling and mischievous, and goodness knows how many modellers have been dropped in the cart since H****** went to the dogs. Brass can be stripped but the paint that misbehaves has the potential to ruin plastic models.

Edited August 22, 2015 by coachmann

[grob1234]

For regular colours in enamel, I have taken to using Tamiya. They spray beautifully when thinned correctly. I tend to avoid humbrol except in acrylic for brush painting. Tamiya acrylics are not easily brush painted but I get superb results with them through my trusty H&S evolution 2. I suppose paints and painting are mainly to do with personal preference and experience. I have messed up many a paint job in the past and will continue to do so. The difference between now and when I started is that I have the confidence/skill (debatable) to fix my errors. No doubt I'll make a few mistakes when I come to painting the coronation set I'm making as there are quite a few challenging processes to get right!

[micklner]

Use Revell Satin Black never had a problem.

[Barry O]

For all black locos I use halfords spray primer and black spray time. Good finish and easy to do . the last rail match spray I used didn't dry for ages and when it did was inconsistent in being part gloss part matt.

 

The best spray paint I ever used was Floquil C&O Enchantment Blue... Then they were forced to remove any carcogens and it was not the the same.

 

Larry, I use a Kern but my lines don't come out anywhere near as good. I can spot you lining from about 20 feet!

Baz

[St Enodoc]

For all black locos I use halfords spray primer and black spray time. Good finish and easy to do . the last rail match spray I used didn't dry for ages and when it did was inconsistent in being part gloss part matt.

 

The best spray paint I ever used was Floquil C&O Enchantment Blue... Then they were forced to remove any carcogens and it was not the the same.

 

Larry, I use a Kern but my lines don't come out anywhere near as good. I can spot you lining from about 20 feet!

Baz

Baz, do you remember when we used to varnish everything with Letracote 103? Fabulous matt finish, then they changed the formula (probably for the same reason you mention) and it didn't dry as quickly, then it was discontinued altogether  .

[John Isherwood]

Baz, do you remember when we used to varnish everything with Letracote 103? Fabulous matt finish, then they changed the formula (probably for the same reason you mention) and it didn't dry as quickly, then it was discontinued altogether  .

 

I've still got some 103 somewhere in the garage - superb stuff.

 

However, I now use Testors Dullcote which is excellent for imparting a unified finish to partial repaints.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[coachmann]

The 'British' rubber-stamp everything Europe throws at them....Something to do with playing the white man or cricket 'ol boy. Talk about loooosers! Still, mustn't talk about the one big thing that shapes our daily lives must we so back to the trainset. For varnish, I use clear cellulose on locos and coaches and for buildings I use the same with matting agent added. PGH of this forum has used some varnishes from abroad and the finish looks pretty damn good too.

Edited August 23, 2015 by coachmann

[micklner]

The 'British' rubber-stamp everything Europe throws at them....Something to do with playing the white man or cricket 'ol boy. Talk about loooosers! Still, mustn't talk about the one big thing that shapes our daily lives must we so back to the trainset. For varnish, I use clear cellulose on locos and coaches and for buildings I use the same with matting agent added. PGH of this forum has used some varnishes from abroad and the finish looks pretty damn good too.

Still no idea how you getaway with using Cellulose , very aggressive and lifts any other type of paint leaving a lovely crackle finish. I used to buy aerosol cans of it when they were freely available, they used to give a superb finish which actually shrinks onto the model as it dries. Total nightmare if you chip it though!!.

[The Stationmaster]

For all black locos I use halfords spray primer and black spray time. Good finish and easy to do . the last rail match spray I used didn't dry for ages and when it did was inconsistent in being part gloss part matt.

 

The best spray paint I ever used was Floquil C&O Enchantment Blue... Then they were forced to remove any carcogens and it was not the the same.

 

Larry, I use a Kern but my lines don't come out anywhere near as good. I can spot you lining from about 20 feet!

Baz

The original recipe Floquil was excellent stuff, brushed or sprayed, and even the British colours they did weren't bad at all but as you've noted it has been 'made safe' - and it isn't the same.  I have found that the Humbrol enamel made in China wasn't as good as the original stuff but regrettably the return to UK manufacture seems to have made it even worse although whether this has been done to save money in the materials used or meet some kind of 'safety' requirement isn't clear (to me at any rate).

[gr.king]

Use Revell Satin Black never had a problem.

Interesting how user experiences vary. I tried using that during a hiatus in the availability of Humbrol, with which I usually have no trouble. I found the Revell paint gloopy to apply, poor for brushing out smoothly, less effective at covering than Humbrol and highly susceptible to remaining chronically sticky instead of going off fully. I've never touched Revell since Humbrol reappeared.

[petethemole]

These days I mainly buy Revell as it's noticeably cheaper than Humbrol. I don't have any problem with it apart from occasional tins going off because I haven't sealed them properly, same as Humbrol.  I only buy Humbrol for colours Revell don't do. My existing stock of Humbrol is mainly pre-China, some dating back to the '70s and still usable.

[Barry Ten]

I've had a few bad experiences with Revell lately as well, both involving their matt black formulation. In all cases, the second coat of matt black (applied by brush) reacted badly to the underlying coat and produced a lumpy, sticky mess. In one case this was on the anti-glare panel of a P51 Mustang which had already been painted silver, so it very nearly ruined a good model. I've also had it happen with locomotive smoke boxes and other black areas. In all cases I didn't rush to apply the second coat. It's made me wary of using the matt black for the time being, especially any tin that isn't virtually fresh.

[MJI]

Still no idea how you getaway with using Cellulose , very aggressive and lifts any other type of paint leaving a lovely crackle finish. I used to buy aerosol cans of it when they were freely available, they used to give a superb finish which actually shrinks onto the model as it dries. Total nightmare if you chip it though!!.

 

Found that when I resprayed a bumper!

[jrg1]

Very interested to read of the difficulties with painting-what do you all do when painting plastic surfaces with cellulose?

[MJI]

Very interested to read of the difficulties with painting-what do you all do when painting plastic surfaces with cellulose?

 

 

Drive around with a rubbish looking bumper especially as I had 2 H&Rs on it

[coachmann]

Still no idea how you getaway with using Cellulose , 

I dont "get away with using cellulose" as you call it. Cellulose is normal fare among professionals. 

Edited August 23, 2015 by coachmann

[Arthur]

 

I'm no professional and in the past, when it was the standard for automotive paint, I used cellulose sprays on plastics without any difficulty. Thin coats allowed to dry before re-spraying. What you don't want is a lot of liquid solvent on the plastic at one time.

[coachmann]

I'm no professional and in the past, when it was the standard for automotive paint, I used cellulose sprays on plastics without any difficulty. Thin coats allowed to dry before re-spraying. What you don't want is a lot of liquid solvent on the plastic at one time.

Absolutely. For those who dont know, cellulose does not attack styrene but neither does it key to it well. Plastic primers are formulated to key to plastic but I would be wary of assuming they are also a barrier if using cellulose.

[billbedford]

The 'British' rubber-stamp everything Europe throws at them....Something to do with playing the white man or cricket 'ol boy.

 

This is just the myth that our Ancien Régime likes to peddle. The UK government is nothing if not corporatist and devious. What happens is that whenever the EU makes a technical proposal, the UK government will consult with few major companies, push very hard for the EU legislation to reflect the interests of these companies, then when the EU laws are brought before parliament make UK law more restrictive than anywhere else in the EU. If anyone then objects it can all be blamed on the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels.