Penhayle Bay

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Given the curvature of the line here, could the signal be moved to the other side of the tracks and still sit inside the railway boundary?

 

Fair comment.  The short answer is no because there is insufficient clearance between the down road cutting and the kinematic envelope (technical term, that!) of passing trains.  Having it "wrong side" is very typical of WR practice however as evidenced by the down starter at the other end of the station.  With restricted sighting (and siting) and the reverse curves speed is limited to 40mph through the station in respect of which the up home has a fixed-caution distant arm placed beneath it.

 

What I can do is to add some fence around the back of the signal and a gate in the track-side fence to create an access area.  

[The Stationmaster]

Fair comment.  The short answer is no because there is insufficient clearance between the down road cutting and the kinematic envelope (technical term, that!) of passing trains.  Having it "wrong side" is very typical of WR practice however as evidenced by the down starter at the other end of the station.  With restricted sighting (and siting) and the reverse curves speed is limited to 40mph through the station in respect of which the up home has a fixed-caution distant arm placed beneath it.

 

What I can do is to add some fence around the back of the signal and a gate in the track-side fence to create an access area.  

 

Rick I'm not quite with you regarding the fixed distant you mentioned.  If the restriction is 40 mph at other than a junction then the distant would be worked and in any case it would be the distant applicable to the Up Home signal, not a distant arm mounted beneath it.  Other than at junctions distant signal arms on the GWR were only fixed at caution if there was a line speed restriction of 15 mph or lower between that Distant Signal and the stop signals to which it applied  (although that was revised for new work from 1958 and distant signals were henceforth worked irrespective of the line speed).

[Budgie]

... and in common with their home signals the LEDs are too bright while the lenses are also not the correct shades of their respective colours.

Have you tried reducing the voltage to the signals?

[Gwiwer]

Have you tried reducing the voltage to the signals?

 

Thanks and no I have not.  I don't know how you would separate the LED power from the motor power without taking the motor unit to bits.  I dismantled the first one which didn't work in case I could fix it.  Tiny parts sprung out never to be seen again and which prevented the signal even being hand-posed in both aspects.  That one got ditched.

 

Dapol themselves say, and other users have confirmed, that 16V is what these signals require and that they will not work on 12V supplies.  So even if I knew what I was doing it would be a fine art to reduce the voltage while retaining function. I am also probably asking them to work beyond design parameters with up to 15 metres of wiring run from switch to signal.  

[Gwiwer]

Rick I'm not quite with you regarding the fixed distant you mentioned.  If the restriction is 40 mph at other than a junction then the distant would be worked and in any case it would be the distant applicable to the Up Home signal, not a distant arm mounted beneath it.  Other than at junctions distant signal arms on the GWR were only fixed at caution if there was a line speed restriction of 15 mph or lower between that Distant Signal and the stop signals to which it applied  (although that was revised for new work from 1958 and distant signals were henceforth worked irrespective of the line speed).

I live and learn Mike and thank you for your comments.  The distant can be regarded as a worked one though I never pose it to clear.  The speed restriction ought to be enough and as I am one of very few "drivers" to sign the road it isn't unduly arduous to issue a suitable notice and keep everyone up to date.

 

Ironically perhaps the down distant which has just been converted to a working Dapol item from a fixed Ratio one was also considered "fixed" due to warning of sharp reverse-curves and a medium-speed restriction ahead.  The Dapol one of course can be cleared as required.

[Budgie]

Thanks and no I have not.  I don't know how you would separate the LED power from the motor power without taking the motor unit to bits.  I dismantled the first one which didn't work in case I could fix it.  Tiny parts sprung out never to be seen again and which prevented the signal even being hand-posed in both aspects.  That one got ditched.

 

Dapol themselves say, and other users have confirmed, that 16V is what these signals require and that they will not work on 12V supplies.  So even if I knew what I was doing it would be a fine art to reduce the voltage while retaining function. I am also probably asking them to work beyond design parameters with up to 15 metres of wiring run from switch to signal.

Hmm. I suppose it would be possible to run it on 12v until you want to switch it, then up it to 16v while it is switching, and reduce it back to 12v once it has switched. But that's not simple, so I don't expect anyone to try it.

[Gwiwer]

A small workbench project has taken to the rails.

 

Inspired by this photo (linked as I cannot attribute copyright) https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hVjhsG8/0/M/i-hVjhsG8-M.jpg I purchased a pair of Bachmann Conflats recently and already had the Holman compressor spare from a previous purchase as they came in a twin pack.  It's no coincidence that the original photo location, now devoid of rails, and the retailer in question (who also commissioned the compressors) are very close.

 

 

 

 

Only minor works have been required.  The compressor required its jockey-wheel bracket shortened.  As supplied the wheel is in the lowered position for free-standing on roads but in transit this is wound fully up with the wheel resting on the wagon deck.  A quick snip of the brass bracket with the Xurons and a touch of superglue sorted that; a retouch with black mapping pen covered a missing flake of black paint.  I didn't manage to get the cut piece to stick back above he tow bar but it hardly notices.  The wheel scotches are cut and painted matches which have proved easier to work with than the balsa first used.  The wagon has been weathered and the compressor stuck down.  I still intend to source suitable lashing chains at some time.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Gwiwer

[Andrew P]

Rick, This was also posted on Jenny's Bolton Trinity Road, by Suzzie, it may be of help / interest.
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Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:32

After looking at the inside of my Dapol signal when I had to mend it, I discovered that it appears to be quite happy running on 8V DC - there is no need whatsoever for it to be run on AC if you use a lower voltage. Get the polarity correct on the red and black wires or the light will not come on.


 
Now I haven't a clue on AC/DC other than knowing there a great Band, so cant comment on the above myself.
All the Best.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

Compressors look Stunning, well done. I have about 8 Tractors, 2 on a flat and the rest parked up in Warleggens Yard on Pencarne, so I will be doing the old cliché  and fit them to Flats for the next Layout once Pen is Sold. Slaters do some fine chain, or a mate of mine found an old very fine necklace chain that was a bit tarnished at a Car boot sale.

[Gwiwer]

It is 18 o'clock here.  Emirates EK405 has just departed Melbourne right on time for Dubai via Singapore connecting to London Heathrow. On board is a special passenger.  She must be special - she was awarded an upgrade to business class at check-in.  Her connecting flight EK031 arrives Heathrow 16.10 local time Sunday for anyone interested in sky-scanning.

[St Enodoc]

It is 18 o'clock here.  Emirates EK405 has just departed Melbourne right on time for Dubai via Singapore connecting to London Heathrow. On board is a special passenger.  She must be special - she was awarded an upgrade to business class at check-in.  Her connecting flight EK031 arrives Heathrow 16.10 local time Sunday for anyone interested in sky-scanning.

We got an upgrade on EK earlier this year - only to Auckland though unfortunately.

[Gwiwer]

Very nice Rick. One comment though which I hope you will take in the spirit it is intended - the signal looks a bit odd outside the fence. Given the curvature of the line here, could the signal be moved to the other side of the tracks and still sit inside the railway boundary?

 

 

In response to this comment and to complaints from the S&T Department that their men could not access the signal to check the lamp and oil the mechanism I have modified the fence line to include a gate and access area.  I have also modified the lineside greenery to include a degraded and weed-grown walking route.

 

Apologies for the quality of these pictures; there is just about no light here today.  Even the overhead strip isn't enough and using flash washes out the detail.

 

 

 

And the reason this signal cannot be sited "wrong side" on the curve ..... which would have been "right side" for GWR steam loco drivers ..... is a lack of clearance

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

In response to this comment and to complaints from the S&T Department that their men could not access the signal to check the lamp and oil the mechanism I have modified the fence line to include a gate and access area.  I have also modified the lineside greenery to include a degraded and weed-grown walking route.

 

Apologies for the quality of these pictures; there is just about no light here today.  Even the overhead strip isn't enough and using flash washes out the detail.

 

 

 

And the reason this signal cannot be sited "wrong side" on the curve ..... which would have been "right side" for GWR steam loco drivers ..... is a lack of clearance

 

 

I like that Rick, good work.

[Andrew P]

Neat little gate, how about some rust on it and the fencing?

[The Stationmaster]

Neat little gate, how about some rust on it and the fencing?

 

Come on Andy - this is the WR and they treated their metal fences regularly so the only rust would be inside joints between sections and it wouldn't even show in 4mm scale - s'there  However the black paint they used on them did weather down to a matt finish fairly quickly.

 

I do somewhere have a suitable photo but in due deference to a well known finescale model railway magazine publisher I will not pst it as he might not like the world to see what he looked like when he was about 13 years old   

[Gwiwer]

I'm no expert but tend to agree with Mike here; the black-painted fences didn't visibly rust though no doubt did exhibit some to close inspection.  The glossy appearance is, I'm afraid, the result of Humbrol's matt black paint failing to deliver what it says on the tin.  As bemoaned in its own topic it dries to a slight sheen which seems to turn glossy over time.  A dusting of weathering powder can sort that out however.  For a rusted and weathered fence - from the same Ratio pack - take a look at the lineside above Ponsangwyn Yard.

 

 

Much of this afternoon has been spent on small tidying-up tasks such as re-fixing and replacing missing signs.  One more signal has been replaced by a Dapol item (another which illuminates but has a dead motor) being that controlling the exit from the Ponsangwyn Branch to the Down Goods Loop.  That's one more 50+ year-old Crescent signal finally retired.  

 

As well I have put some effort into closing the hole where the fiddle yard baseboard rotted out.  The weather has been mostly wet recently but the affected area itself has dried out.  The gap has been bridged with marine ply topped with cork and the slight change in levels arising from this is accommodated with chamfered cork edges and a little filler.  In the process I have lost a few millimetres of width to additional weatherproofing which has cost some length on one of the two sidings which were affected.  The Up Back Loop, closest to the garden fence, is now a loop off the Up Through Loop.  The former now holds a loco plus 7 Mk1 while the latter holds the same clear of the new points to the Up Back Loop but can still accommodate two locos plus 14 end-to-end.  Both loops could manage this before.  A space was left by the removed siding which has become a new two-car DMU / loco siding ending before the width restriction.

 

Track is down and partially fixed.  I need to apply a coat of black paint to the area to match the rest of the fiddle yard and pin everything firmly in place.  Photos to follow as it's now dark.  I hope to have the fiddle yard recommissioned in the next few days which will leave me with only one medium-sized job to complete, the rain-damaged back scene around the top end, before the layout looks its best again. 

[Andrew P]

I stand corrected over the Fence Rick and Mike, I must admit mine on Pen are still SHINY BLACK  I like the way the White-ish fencing looks though Mike, that's spot on.

[Gwiwer]

I like the way the White-ish fencing looks though (Rick?), that's spot on.

 

 

It's Revell matt white, not the dreaded Humbrol, dabbed with Floquil Rust and Grimy Black

[mullie]

I use mainly artists acrylics and find substances such as talc, ground up charcoal etc make a good matting agent and add interesting variation and texture to finishes. I remember having similar problems with enamel paints in terms of the not drying matt but stopped using them years ago as I became intolerant of the fumes.

 

These pictures might give an idea of the variety I achieve.

 

 

 

Does mean that the paint can dry incredibly quickly so you have to work very quickly too.

[john flann]

Rick, reverting back to post #1407, the load to me looks rather insecure, I don't think the chocks and what chains you have are enough; fore and aft too would assist.

 

Loads on four wheel stock get a pretty rough ride, and on a flat too there is nothing to contain it if it comes loose.

 

I also had the notion that con-flats were restricted to carriage of containers only.

Edited September 18, 2016 by john flann

[Gwiwer]

Rick, reverting back to post #1407, the load to me looks rather insecure, I don't think the chocks and what chains you have are enough; fore and aft too would assist.

 

Loads on four wheel stock get a pretty rough ride, and on a flat too there is nothing to contain it if it comes loose.

 

I also had the notion that con-flats were restricted to carriage of containers only.

 

Hello John,

 

If you go back to that same post and take a look at the link I included this shows the photo which inspired the work.  In that image two Conflats definitely have compressors on them although the designation "Conflat" does arise from "Container Flat wagon".  The Bachmann models are also branded XP (understood to mean Express Passenger although opinions and sources differ) meaning they are passed to travel at up to 60mph.  They could not carry this unless they were fitted with oil axleboxes, long buffers, screw couplers and have continuous brakes.  While those won't necessarily improve the ride they did mean it may be better than on wagons not so equipped.

 

I don't yet have any chains fitted.  When I get the chance I shall drop into a local shop and see what is on offer.  The wagon is thus running at this stage with an insecure load but will not be for ever.  The original photo is taken from platform level the angle of which makes identifying chain positions tricky but they clearly do not go up and over at any point - they are confined to the deck and I suspect are fixed to lugs on the compressor which do not exist on the model.

[The Stationmaster]

Hello John,

 

If you go back to that same post and take a look at the link I included this shows the photo which inspired the work.  In that image two Conflats definitely have compressors on them although the designation "Conflat" does arise from "Container Flat wagon".  The Bachmann models are also branded XP (understood to mean Express Passenger although opinions and sources differ) meaning they are passed to travel at up to 60mph.  They could not carry this unless they were fitted with oil axleboxes, long buffers, screw couplers and have continuous brakes.  While those won't necessarily improve the ride they did mean it may be better than on wagons not so equipped.

 

I don't yet have any chains fitted.  When I get the chance I shall drop into a local shop and see what is on offer.  The wagon is thus running at this stage with an insecure load but will not be for ever.  The original photo is taken from platform level the angle of which makes identifying chain positions tricky but they clearly do not go up and over at any point - they are confined to the deck and I suspect are fixed to lugs on the compressor which do not exist on the model.

 

I'm reasonably sure that by the time that picture was taken 4 wheel Conflats were restricted to less than 60 mph as part of the general reduction of 4 wheel wagon speeds which took place from late 1960s onwards.  I believe that Lowfits were the preferred wagon for the Holmans' compressor traffic but they were invariably in short supply hence Conflats being used  (the other alternative would be Plate wagons and they were even more difficult to get hold of by then.

[Gwiwer]

Thanks Mike

 

I don't doubt the speed would have been lower than 60mph by the time represented since, as you say, all SWB wagons had their maximum permitted speeds progressively reduced.  They were built for the days of jointed track but as continuously-welded rail steadily replaced that there were some nasty incidents attributed to poor riding at higher speeds.  Wasn't one a coal train which derailed into the path of a WCML express passenger with loss of life?  I believe it was said at the time that the rail joints somehow reduced the tendency of SWB wagons to hunt which wasn't the case on CWR.  The things hunted excessively from side to side and occasionally came right off.  

 

The image I used as reference - and as also used by Kernow MRC to promote their Holman compressor models - is clearly of Conflats though I agree other types might have been used if available.

[SRman]

There are many examples of wagons being used because they happened to be available, rather than being totally suited to the items required to be carried. The converse of Conflats being used for non-container traffic is non-container wagons being used for containers; things like Lowfits, clearly labelled "Not to be used for Containers" being used for containers!

[Gwiwer]

As promise some photo-updates.  

 

First the work to repair the rotted section of fiddle yard board.  The new track is loosely pinned at this stage.  It has been tested for clearance and has passed.  The line closest to the fence / back panels is the Up Back Loop while the mail train stands on the Up Through Loop. The reduction in space has resulted in a new point being required on the "patch" which is yet to have its motor fitted.  Track is placed loosely to indicate the new loco / DMU siding at this end in the space once occupied by part of the Up Back Loop.

 

 

The missing back panel has dried out and whilst it is not in great shape it can be refitted to complete the scene in due course.

 

 

A mix of soot black and grimy black weathering powders dusted over the fence has removed the glossy effect nicely

 

 

The Dapol signal now fitted at the top of the bank from Ponsangwyn Yard.  The motor worked when tested, had its arm shortened and repainted (as can be seen in the enlarged photo but not readily visible to the eye) but hasn't worked since.  It was going to be binned but as the LED powers up I have used it here on a "better this than nothing" basis.

 

 

And a view of more loaded wagons in the fleet - a little more conventional than the compressor-on-conflat perhaps.