John Tomlinson Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Following various threads on Maunsell restaurant cars, there has been doubt about any of these cars ever appearing in crimson and cream in their original form. ie. not buffet or cafeteria conversions. Here is proof that at least one appeared in crimson and cream. A very helpful post indeed, not least as the arrangement of roof vents over the kitchen end looks somewhat different to that in the King book. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Further to my previous post, anyone with "Waterloo - Exeter Heyday", IA Siviour & Esau, might turn to page 57, where the upper picture show a similar vehicle in carmine and cream. It is at Exeter Central, being shunted by an M7 in the company of what looks like a Bulleid corridor composite (anyone able to confirm?). Unfortunately the M7's clag partly obscures the roof vent arrangement at the kitchen end! John. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iltman Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Not to be critical but to resolve this to my full satisfaction can anyone offer the SR Summer 1947 Coach Working Notices for the ACE and other trains to Padstow. Only that would provide the necessary information. I thought someone on SEMG once posted them and I downloaded them but cannot find them in my PC files at the moment. 1946 was still to soon after the war and by 1948 BR changes may have taken place. The Summer of 1947 was the halcyon point for the final true Southern Railway. Going back to Winkworth (Southern Titled Trains) it appears 1947 was not a year when the Restaurant cars worked through to Padstow. Up until 1939 the ACE Padstow portion during the summer timetable showed a 4 car dining set. After the outbreak of hostilities the restaurant potion was cut out at Exeter, the through set was reintroduced running through to Padstow again in 1948! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Godfrey Glyn Posted April 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2018 Further to my previous post, anyone with "Waterloo - Exeter Heyday", IA Siviour & Esau, might turn to page 57, where the upper picture show a similar vehicle in carmine and cream. It is at Exeter Central, being shunted by an M7 in the company of what looks like a Bulleid corridor composite (anyone able to confirm?). Unfortunately the M7's clag partly obscures the roof vent arrangement at the kitchen end! John. And on page 58 of the same book there is a shot taken of an up train in the 1930s at the west end of Honition tunnel with what looks like a restaurant car as the second coach with a roof arrangement which is quite different to the carmine/cream one posted above and more like the Hornby sample seen at Ally Pally. It all gets very interesting! Godfrey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) Further to my previous post, anyone with "Waterloo - Exeter Heyday", IA Siviour & Esau, might turn to page 57, where the upper picture show a similar vehicle in carmine and cream. It is at Exeter Central, being shunted by an M7 in the company of what looks like a Bulleid corridor composite (anyone able to confirm?). Unfortunately the M7's clag partly obscures the roof vent arrangement at the kitchen end! John. Definitely looks like a Bulleid CK, three windows to the left of the centre door, four to the right, so it's the compartment side. SKs and SOs had four either side. John Edited April 28, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Wasn’t much space for beer in that tavern then.. was it Cornish ? Nah ...... Beer's in Devon .................. oops this isn't a PECO thread ! ................ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) Following various threads on Maunsell restaurant cars, there has been doubt about any of these cars ever appearing in crimson and cream in their original form. ie. not buffet or cafeteria conversions. Here is proof that at least one appeared in crimson and cream. A quick tot-up in Gould results in First Restaurant Kitchen (as built), with most variations between diagrams being in the type of cooking equipment installed. Diagram 2650: 4 Diagram 2651: 26 Diagram 2655: 8. Diagram 2656: 8. Total as built: 46. Conversions: First Kitchen, Diagram 2657 (ex-2651, 1946): 3. Kitchen Buffet, Diagram 2659 (ex-2656, 1947): 4. Kitchen Buffet, Diagram 2661 (ex-2655, 1947): 4. Buffet Car, Diagram 2666 (ex-all original diagrams, 1953/4): 24. Kitchen Buffet, Diagram 2667, ex-2651,1953): 2. Cafeteria Car, Diagram 2675 (ex-2651, 1952): 2. Total conversions: 37. There thus appear to have been nine that retained their original designation until withdrawal, added to which, 26 of the 37 conversions didn't take place until 1953/4 Catering vehicles were almost wholly used in higher profile/status trains so tended to get priority for repaints into new liveries. First Restaurant/Kitchen cars in crimson and cream should therefore have been quite common. Worth bearing in mind, too, that those vehicles retaining their original diagram numbers would not have been immune to modification, albeit (usually) internally. John Edited June 14, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor-onGRT4 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I have put the question about the lining to Hornby, got a reply today. The answer :Our current tooling for the SR Maunsll R4816 restaurant coach will not allow us to add lining to the product , unfortunately this will be sold un-lined Hope this will help to solve the question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exet1095 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I have put the question about the lining to Hornby, got a reply today. The answer :Our current tooling for the SR Maunsll R4816 restaurant coach will not allow us to add lining to the product , unfortunately this will be sold un-lined Hope this will help to solve the question. Or, sadly, not sold unlined. My SR train can continue with Pullman catering facilities. I’ll still get a BR green one though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted April 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2018 I have put the question about the lining to Hornby, got a reply today. The answer :Our current tooling for the SR Maunsll R4816 restaurant coach will not allow us to add lining to the product , unfortunately this will be sold un-lined Hope this will help to solve the question. Rather a curious use of words there by Hornby. Tooling generally does not prevent lining being applied to anything - whether adding lining would be authentic is another matter. Presumably what they mean to say is that the particular model being produced, has some specific features on it which dictate that it can only be produced in plain Olive to be authentic. I hope that Hornby haven't taken the decision to produce tooling that does not allow for a variant with lining to be produced in future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted April 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 30, 2018 Or, sadly, not sold unlined. My SR train can continue with Pullman catering facilities. I’ll still get a BR green one though. Likewise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I have put the question about the lining to Hornby, got a reply today. The answer :Our current tooling for the SR Maunsll R4816 restaurant coach will not allow us to add lining to the product , unfortunately this will be sold un-lined Hope this will help to solve the question. Hm, so either the printing tooling is being done to a budget and lining is not considered cost effective. OR (expert like Muz please chip in) ... the tooling created by Hornby incorporates details that were from the late 1930s onwards into BR days and cannot therefore be made with the earlier lining. So question is were there any changes in this period that are part of the Hornby model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourSUB Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Photo of 7951 in 1932, 1930 batch diagram 2651, on page 25 of ftp://gw.winslow.bg/SPISANIA/StreamDays/Steam%20Days%20042015.pdf Kitchen window layout is same as Hornby's 7946. 7951 also has the fixed frosted light and vent at the saloon end in common with the 1927 batch. Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Following various threads on Maunsell restaurant cars, there has been doubt about any of these cars ever appearing in crimson and cream in their original form. ie. not buffet or cafeteria conversions. Here is proof that at least one appeared in crimson and cream. Have you any idea what the running number of this car is please or where this photo may be found ? Can't make it out from the photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTrucks Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) Following various threads on Maunsell restaurant cars, there has been doubt about any of these cars ever appearing in crimson and cream in their original form. ie. not buffet or cafeteria conversions. Here is proof that at least one appeared in crimson and cream. I could just kick myself Trevor! I have had this downloaded for some while. Page 13 of the original (PAGE 8 OF THE DOWNLOAD) gives the workings and liveries of the SED cars. Original provided by Robert (CWP) Carroll. AND THERE WAS ONE IN CHOCOLATE AND CREAM! Cheers, Martin SR_1953_Summer_CWNA_Cent-East.pdf Edited May 9, 2018 by MartinTrucks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iltman Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I could just kick myself Trevor! I have had this downloaded for some while. Page 13 of the original (PAGE 8 OF THE DOWNLOAD) gives the workings and liveries of the SED cars. Original provided by Robert (CWP) Carroll. AND THERE WAS ONE IN CHOCOLATE AND CREAM! Cheers, Martin Many thanks for this a most useful resource. I dont suppose you have the South Western working notice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTrucks Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 SR%201955%20September%20Western%20CWNA_small.pdf Many thanks for this a most useful resource. I dont suppose you have the South Western working notice? Booklets from this era are as rare as hen's teeth, probably because they were collected for recycling when expired. The closest I have is this, the Winter 1955/6 book for the South Western Division. The info on catering vehicles is on pages 19-24 of the original (pp 20-25 on the download). Once again, the booklet was scanned by Robert Carroll and his copyright info is on page 1 of the download. This and numerous other booklets have been scanned by Robert and are available online via the Yahoo BR Coaching Stock group: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock/info Regards, Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Email from Hattons yesterday alluding to a release date of September. Didn't see anything about a pinch of salt, maybe I didn't scroll down far enough though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourSUB Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Following various threads on Maunsell restaurant cars, there has been doubt about any of these cars ever appearing in crimson and cream in their original form. ie. not buffet or cafeteria conversions. Here is proof that at least one appeared in crimson and cream. Have you any idea what the running number of this car is please or where this photo may be found ? Can't make it out from the photo. Gould lists 7860/2/70/940/5/8/51/55/8000 as being red/cream prior to the 1953/54 conversions with only 8000 remaining as a RFK. He also has 7934 in r/c but that is shown in the 1953 CWN(link above) as chocolate/cream. In addition 7947 was r/c in 1953 https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=87106&search=Maunsell 7955 retained r/c following conversion, there's a pic in the file I linked previously Transport Library also have a pic of 7858 in 1950 with added saloon end door but retaining the small window next to the double doors https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=86419&search=Maunsell&page=2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iltman Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 SR%201955%20September%20Western%20CWNA_small.pdf Booklets from this era are as rare as hen's teeth, probably because they were collected for recycling when expired. The closest I have is this, the Winter 1955/6 book for the South Western Division. The info on catering vehicles is on pages 19-24 of the original (pp 20-25 on the download). Once again, the booklet was scanned by Robert Carroll and his copyright info is on page 1 of the download. This and numerous other booklets have been scanned by Robert and are available online via the Yahoo BR Coaching Stock group: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock/info Regards, Martin Many thanks Martin I owe you the alcoholic beverage of your choice if we ever meet! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor-onGRT4 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 according Hornby's coming soon site they expect them both in July, cancelled my pre order a while ago, first want to have a look on the production model,how it realy looks. interior looks great with the table lamps, but the body colour?dark olive?Maunsell green?, we will see if it impress me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 according Hornby's coming soon site they expect them both in July, cancelled my pre order a while ago, first want to have a look on the production model,how it realy looks. interior looks great with the table lamps, but the body colour?dark olive?Maunsell green?, we will see if it impress me. I'm not so worried about the bodyside colour(s) but I HOPE they've done something to tone-down those over-conspicuous curtains !!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted June 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2018 I HOPE they've done something to tone-down those over-conspicuous curtains !!?! So do I but I have my doubts. The same issue was raised about the Pullmans, yet the Hawksworth coaches were the same, and now these... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) A finished Hornby Maunsell Restaurant car in BR (SR) green was running on "Twelvetrees Junction", the Hornby magazine layout, at the GCR event last weekend. Very nice it looked as well, and I was interested to see they'd decided on three roof vents between the water tank and rear monsoon vents, arranged in the form of a triangle. I'm wondering if this is a classic case of no two were the same! John. P.S. I meant to mention it did have curtains, IIRC a lightish gray. Edited June 19, 2018 by John Tomlinson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 A finished Hornby Maunsell Restaurant car in BR (SR) green was running on "Twelvetrees Junction",........... . I meant to mention it did have curtains, IIRC a lightish gray. Photos in today's 'Engine Shed' confirm over conspicuous grey curtains .............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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