dibber25 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Not sure if this should be here or under 'Overseas modelling' but I figure it will be more widely seen if I post it here. The story so far. I've bought a very nice (secondhand but obviously unused) Proto 2000 GP38-2. It's a limited edition model as Ontario Northland 1800 and it is very nice indeed. Not sure how long ago it was made. I need to put a decoder in it. I've had problems before, getting the body off a run-of-the-mill Geep by the same manufacturer. That turned out to be two screws hidden above the trucks and not mentioned in the pretty dreadful instruction sheet. Better instructions with this model - two screws in different places indicated (badly) by instructions and duly removed. No success whatsoever getting the body off. Instructions say "DO NOT REMOVE TWO LARGE BRASS SCREWS". There are NO brass screws of any description anywhere to be seen. There are two more small black screws, not mentioned in instructions, which after careful examination I decide MIGHT also be body securing screws. I take them out. Instructions say 'grip solid area between grilles and LIFT body off' (my emphasis). Lift? Nothing doing. Now I'm tempted to ease body and chassis apart with a thin blade inserted carefully where I can, avoiding breaking the plastic body. I need not worry about the plastic. Two brittle shards of mazak break off the edge of the chassis (in locations where they won't be seen). I'm alarmed by the poor quality of the Mazak and am reminded immediately of problems mentioned on here with some Hornby Class 31s. I've decided to cut my losses and run the loco as DC on the O address of the DCC controller. I hate that because of the noise and the fact that the motors clearly don't like it. I start putting the couplers on and find that the coupler pockets won't fit through the openings. I'm now thinking that the mazak chassis has swollen very slightly, causing such pressure against the body that it won't come off and that the couplers won't fit. Also, on close inspection, it looks that one of the end platform/pilot units is being pushed outwards by the chassis. Has anyone come across similar problems with a Proto 2000 GP38-2?? Edited later: Amazing - but ten minutes after posting on here, with the full glare of the morning sun I finally spot two screws hidden above the trucks and so inaccessible that you have to work THROUGH the truck frame to reach them. With these undone, the body finally comes off with a little gentle leverage. I still think the mazak is brittle and there appears to be some slight distortion of the chassis frame but more importantly it demonstrates the desperate inadequacy of the instructions which lead you to TWO pairs of OBVIOUS (but wrong) screws but fail to direct you to the correct ones, which are so placed that you can't find them even when you're looking for them!! CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Reminds me of some cars, where the engines are so obviously assembled with the motor and chassis/body seperated, that you cannot do something simple, like change an oil filter, with the engine in situ - the entire lump has to be rermoved! I always thought that car designers should be given the average motorists set of tools, and made to spend 6 months taking them apart and putting them back together, and then writing the Haynes manual, befoire the model was released Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have heard nothing of Mazak rot with these locos, so far! We should all keep an eye on some of the US Forums. I had an early HO SW 1500 by Kato and never found out how to take the body off in 20 years - it's ridiculous (I subsequently lost it in a house move....) Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Grant 4472 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have heard nothing of Mazak rot with these locos, so far! We should all keep an eye on some of the US Forums. I had an early HO SW 1500 by Kato and never found out how to take the body off in 20 years - it's ridiculous (I subsequently lost it in a house move....) Best, Pete. I never knew Kato did a SW1500. We live and learn Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Grant 4472 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 In regard to the screw location, I can't remember if it's the same for GP38-2's, but the GP7/9 chassis has 2 or even 3 different locations for the fixing screws, including under the fuel tank, IIRC, depending on the model version and release date. I tend to cut off the screw housings on the inside of the bodyshell of the GP38-2, as it provides more room for the speaker and other electronic stuff. When fitted, the coupler housing boxes seem to hold the body-shell in place perfectly well, without the need for additional screws Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I never knew Kato did a SW1500. We live and learn Jon Actually it could have been an early NW2 - I bought it in 1990 or so, I haven't seen it in several years..... I do remember what a smooth runner it was, though. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Chris - the brass ones are hidden by the plastic fuel tank, they hold the motor in which is why it suggests not undoing those to get the body off! My ones now have no body screws, and the body is retained solely by the coupler pockets... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Grant 4472 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Actually it could have been an early NW2 - I bought it in 1990 or so, I haven't seen it in several years..... I do remember what a smooth runner it was, though. Best, Pete. I have an NW2, although the body is now running on a Broadway SW7 chassis and is in IHB lightning stripe livery. The chassis is a really smooth runner, but I've never found anything else that will fit over the split-frame chassis block Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurenceb Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 A thought, does anyone know when the model was made? Proto 2000 were made in the same factory as Hornby and if they were made at about the same time the metal could have come from the same batch. Laurence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 A thought, does anyone know when the model was made? Proto 2000 were made in the same factory as Hornby and if they were made at about the same time the metal could have come from the same batch. Laurence Now that the body is off, I can't really see any obvious problems with the mazak but on the thin areas that broke off, the metal looks slightly 'crumbly'. I think the real issue is the instructions. Its not like they suffered from poor translation into English, or even that it's 'American' English. They simply don't tell you what you need to know. They tell you to undo 'the two small black screws shown on the exploded diagram'. There are actually SIX screws shown on the diagram. All are floating in white space with no indication where they actually are on the model and none of them is marked as a body securing screw. If I ever had to review these Proto 2000 Geeps I'd have to say that they are seriously let down by a bad instruction sheet that warrants a big fat zero out of ten. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Look closely at the metal and look for fine cracks. I found them in mazak weights in another manufacturer's locomotives - three of them were affected. I removed and returned the weights which were happily exchanged. The Kato NW2 shell is a $&*^$#@ to get off. It's held onto the frame by a pair of pimples on each side of the frame that fit into matching recesses on the body. The first time I get the body off I file off about 2/3s of the pimples. Shell still stays on but can be fairly easily removed. And wait until you decide to put a decoder in one of them. THAT was a vocabulary builder... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Thanks, Craig. I'm almost glad that I lost it! It was in Seaboard (Black and red) but I was going to paint it in CNJ drab green and yellow stripes but I abandoned that layout in the interim... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have purchased a few Proto 2000 locos and frequently found that the instructions for DCC conversion (on the newer ones) bear no resemblance to what is inside the body. The instructions are often useful for another completely different loco though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Don't forget the P2k locos had an issue (I think it was with the lighting or lighting board) that needed to be fixed before installing a decoder... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Don't forget the P2k locos had an issue (I think it was with the lighting or lighting board) that needed to be fixed before installing a decoder... Yes, it was replacing all four bulbs. Did it yesterday - and that's not an easy job, either. The decoder fitting will have to wait. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northpoint Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I fitted a decoder to an MP version I bought a couple of years ago. I remember the hassle of getting the body off but the decoder fitting I recall was strange but easy enough - I think you have to "flip" the 8-pin socket and fit the decoder. I then just secured it with some insulating tape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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