RMweb Premium Reorte Posted June 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said: This diagram should be required reading in all schools. Never made much sense to me that the Channel Islands are considered part of the British Isles, when geographically I'd put them with France rather than that archipelago. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 23 minutes ago, Reorte said: Never made much sense to me that the Channel Islands are considered part of the British Isles, when geographically I'd put them with France rather than that archipelago. Especially Alderney and Sark? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said: This diagram should be required reading in all schools. I do like the diagram. 😀 I guess it would have to be enormously bigger to include all the populated islands? Outer & Inner Hebrides Orkney & Shetland Alderney & Sark Isle of Wight Scillies etc Plus a pedantic twylight zone to argue whether Cornwall is still technically a seperate country. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted June 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17 6 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said: I do like the diagram. 😀 I guess it would have to be enormously bigger to include all the populated islands? Outer & Inner Hebrides Orkney & Shetland Alderney & Sark Isle of Wight Scillies etc Plus a pedantic twylight zone to argue whether Cornwall is still technically a seperate country. If you regard that diagram as not being exhaustive but "these particular places belong in these sets" it works. It gets a bit fiddly to draw when you have things like "Anglesey - in the UK, in the British Isles, in Wales, not in Great Britain." 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Reorte said: Never made much sense to me that the Channel Islands are considered part of the British Isles, when geographically I'd put them with France rather than that archipelago. Might be worth reading a bit of history. They were part of England before France was even a country! Came with the Normans.... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted June 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17 4 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Might be worth reading a bit of history. They were part of England before France was even a country! Came with the Normans.... That's got nothing to do with geography though. Geographically-speaking the Channel Islands aren't the same archipelago as Great Britain, Ireland etc. but part of mainland France / Europe / whateveryouwanttocallit (can't think of any suitable term without some political connotations since geographically Europe and Asia aren't really separate anyway). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17 On 15/06/2024 at 20:15, CameronL said: I've known some Americans who would struggle to tell you the name of this country - (Just for them, it's the thing that stops Alaska from being an island). It’s possible that some Americans would have difficulty identifying the country below it. I believe they’re called Texans… 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium J. S. Bach Posted June 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17 On 15/06/2024 at 15:15, CameronL said: I've known some Americans who would struggle to tell you the name of this country - (Just for them, it's the thing that stops Alaska from being an island). Or just "The Cold Country". 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17 (edited) I have Irish friends who are not comfortable with their island being part of the British Isles, but of course that is a geographical definition of the archipelago, which does not include the Channel Islands. Politically/as determined by borders, Ireland is not part of the British main island, Great Britain, which is why the full name of the country known as the UK is the ‘United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland’, a Hibernian minefield! The ancient Brythonic & Gaelic description that survives in writings such as the Irish legends or the Mabinogion is ‘these islands’ which is probably as easy and descriptive a definition as is needed for most purposes. If the Scottish, Welsh, and Cornish independence movements are ever successful, perhaps we could revive the pre-Roman ‘Council of the Isles’ to deal with latters affecting all of the countries; this would include all of Ireland. Edited June 17 by The Johnster 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 6 minutes ago, Reorte said: That's got nothing to do with geography though. Geographically-speaking the Channel Islands aren't the same archipelago as Great Britain, Ireland etc. but part of mainland France / Europe / whateveryouwanttocallit (can't think of any suitable term without some political connotations since geographically Europe and Asia aren't really separate anyway). We aren't talking about Physical Geography though. Try Human Geography which it is part of. If you start going down the route of it's all connected so it must belong to XYZ, then you get the current situation of the Russians wanting to take everything even remotely close to them as it's on the same land mass. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted June 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17 8 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: We aren't talking about Physical Geography though. Try Human Geography which it is part of. If you start going down the route of it's all connected so it must belong to XYZ, then you get the current situation of the Russians wanting to take everything even remotely close to them as it's on the same land mass. When talking about what islands belong to what archipelago it's physical geography, and island groupings are generally a physical geography feature. "Belong to" in a physical geographical sense does not imply any degree of belonging in a political one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 10 minutes ago, Reorte said: When talking about what islands belong to what archipelago it's physical geography, and island groupings are generally a physical geography feature. "Belong to" in a physical geographical sense does not imply any degree of belonging in a political one. How can something belong to a lump of rock? I'm afraid this is getting silly now.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted June 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: How can something belong to a lump of rock? I'm afraid this is getting silly now.... Is "Mount Everest is a mountain in the Himalayas" a silly thing to say? It's a mountain in that particular mountain range, that geographic feature. The range Everest belongs to is the Himalayas. "What group does X belong to" is a very common thing to say about all sorts of things. It doesn't imply some sort of legal ownership in the "the mug I'm drinking my tea out of belongs to me" sense. Edited June 17 by Reorte 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted June 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Reorte said: That's got nothing to do with geography though. Geographically-speaking the Channel Islands aren't the same archipelago as Great Britain, Ireland etc. but part of mainland France / Europe / whateveryouwanttocallit (can't think of any suitable term without some political connotations since geographically Europe and Asia aren't really separate anyway). If it's any help, Wikipedia defines the Channel Islands as an archipelago of their own... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronL Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Joking aren't you? Liverpool have got a fifty year waiting list for season tickets and is sold out every match! Man City can't even sell out their council house stadium. After all they are just a glorified Third Division club owned by sportswashing Arabs. Before all that money came in they had won less than Huddersfield Town! As Clough said, "You might as well throw all those medals in the bin as you haven't won them fair and square".... Oops. Sorry. Didn't mean to cause offence. Just seeing the funny side of a situation. In the days before the "sportswashing Arabs" I was involved in an online forum in which the discussion turned round to whether Man City had ever had a capacity crowd at Maine Road. Although a blue, I posted that there had been such crowds: Oasis had managed it and so had Queen. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said: How can something belong to a lump of rock? Oh yes! We forgot to include Rockall. But only inhabited by wild and mad types for a few days. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 40 minutes ago, Nick C said: If it's any help, Wikipedia defines the Channel Islands as an archipelago of their own... But if we go back to when The Scillies (plural) was The Scilly Isle (singular), we may find the Channel Islands were still connected to the mainland of what's now France. Perhaps. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Reorte said: "What group does X belong to" is a very common thing to say about all sorts of things. It doesn't imply some sort of legal ownership in the "the mug I'm drinking my tea out of belongs to me" sense. Although it can get dangerously close to self-referencing if someone says "the mug that's drinking my tea out of my mug" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 43 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said: Oh yes! We forgot to include Rockall. But only inhabited by wild and mad types for a few days. Ooi!... ... One of those 3 is a good friend, with whom I shared the task of educating young people... well until, what had been a pleasant and satisfying job became an occupation in which continued working might well bring accusations of extreme Masochistic tendencies. We both moved on to less burdensome occupations, for precisely the same reasons, mad, or Masochistic, he was not. 🤪 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted June 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said: Oh yes! We forgot to include Rockall. But only inhabited by wild and mad types for a few days. The same could be said for Westminster 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted June 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17 (edited) 5 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said: I do like the diagram. 😀 I guess it would have to be enormously bigger to include all the populated islands? Outer & Inner Hebrides Orkney & Shetland Alderney & Sark Isle of Wight Scillies etc Plus a pedantic twylight zone to argue whether Cornwall is still technically a seperate country. You forgot Canvey.😁 Edited June 17 by PhilJ W 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 9 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: You forgot Canvey.😁 I also forgot the Isle of Sheppey 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17 Best thing to do with both of ‘em… 2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said: 3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: How can something belong to a lump of rock? Oh yes! We forgot to include Rockall. Bit of a wobbly argument to claim it as British on geographical grounds, though, as it’s on a significantly different and separate part of the continental shelf. This is in no way intended to detract from the achievements of those who landed, raised flags, and were resident on the rock; British on account of first flag planted is a much better provenance, especially as there were no natives to massacre/enslave/exploit… British but not, to my mind, part of the British Isles. Rockall, as most who have had any dealings with it would probably affirm, stands alone! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post Sidecar Racer Posted June 17 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted June 17 1 24 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyPenguin Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 52 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said: I also forgot the Isle of Sheppey & of course the Isle of Thanet - home of the great God Hornby. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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