RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2021 5 hours ago, SHMD said: Maybe she doesn't think much at all. This one, definitely this one! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, The Johnster said: I meant that I sort of understand the flawed thought process of lobsters being alive when you kill them, as opposed to other things which are, necessarily according to this process, dead when you kill them. It goes with statements such as 'it's been later than this before now', and 'eat it and kill it, then stuff it and pluck it'. You know exactly what is meant but it's said all wrong. People are more squeamish than they were in my yoof, though. I was staying with some chums with a friend who has a rented smallholding in West Wales a few years back, and as one of her chooks had not laid for a week, she wrung it's neck and we had it for dinner with a rather nice peppery tarragon jus, and home grown spuds and greens. I had shooed her into the hutch the night before, but felt no guilt or remorse about chowing down on a bird that I'd known personally. One or two of my chums decided that I was a cold and heartless killing maching in consequence. I think urban life removes one from things that are not particularly nice, and wonder how many townies (I am myself a townie) would think differently about eating meat after a visit to an abbatoir. In a similar way, I am very much opposed to capital punishment, but accept that this is a minority view. Were it to be reintroduced, I would campaign for public executions. This would soon sort out the squeamish from those who would be there baying for blood, many of whom I suspect would be vegetarians. On the way back from the same trip, we were discussing genetically modified food, and I brought up the subject of factory grown cultured meat. Everybody else in the car was horrified at this idea, preferring to put live sentient animals through the slaughtering process and denying huge swathes of the third world's population the ability to grow crops and rear animals for their own consumption on land now used for grazing stock for our benefit. It's what I think of as the 'Farmers Market' mentality; there is nothing inherently better about food bought at a Farmer's market and equal quality can be found in shops if you are prepared to pay for it, and in the case of our local FM food comes from the farm that morning or the night before in small, fuel inefficient, diesel vans from up to 120 miles away, over Welsh wiggly rural roads for over half the distance. Meanwhile the customers have blocked the nearby streets with 4x4s to carry the produce home, about 15 minute's walk away. It's a well intentioned but flawed thought process. Some interesting points made there old bean. One of the reasons I turned veggie in 1977 was that I realised I wouldn’t kill a living creature to eat it. Similarly, I’m not going to pay someone else to do out for me. This was after I was (first) married and started living away from home. Before, food was put in front of me and I ate it, without giving much thought to where it came from. Actually going out to buy our own provisions. made me think about its origins. steve 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tankerman Posted February 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2021 11 hours ago, kevinlms said: I went out with him a couple of times in his work car & he was downright dangerous. His foot was always hard on either the accelerator or brake. The clutch was used like a bear trap - a distinctive clang as it was released. Fortunately, only a couple of short trips and then I had my own work car, so never needed to travel with him again. One of my fellow engineer surveyors was the same, although he had not had any accidents and his car was undamaged, he was wearing out the front tyres on his Astra in under 10,000 miles. The company arranged for a IAM instructor to ride with him to see if if was his driving or a fault with the car that was causing the tyre wear. On the allotted day his manager received a phone car from the IAM instructor who told him that within 15 minutes he had terminated the test, got out of the engineers car and hired a taxi get back to the surveyor's house where he collected his own car. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2021 52 minutes ago, steve1 said: Some interesting points made there old bean. One of the reasons I turned veggie in 1977 was that I realised I wouldn’t kill a living creature to eat it. Similarly, I’m not going to pay someone else to do out for me. This was after I was (first) married and started living away from home. Before, food was put in front of me and I ate it, without giving much thought to where it came from. Actually going out to buy our own provisions. made me think about its origins. steve I fully understand and respect this; you have made an informed and rational decision based on your interpretation of the right thing to do, and done it, moreover you have not lectured me on my equally informed and rational decision. What I do not respect are decisions to become veggie or vegan based on fashion or lifestyle choice, or spurious 'health' advice from lifestyle magazines, though I do accept that people who do not eat meat may well be paying more attention to their diet than me as they have to examine it in order to access a sufficient amount of protein. I am concerned that my meat comdw from sustainable sources and has had as happy a life and humane a death as possible. Happy meat impinges less on my concience and tastes better as well; free ranging and organically fed makes a difference. Anyone who has been to a concentration camp for chickens (and this is pretty much what they are) and seen how the poor things are kept cannot possibly have a heart or a concience if he/she continues to buy and eat them, or much in the way of taste buds either... 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 hours ago, steve1 said: Some interesting points made there old bean. One of the reasons I turned veggie in 1977 was that I realised I wouldn’t kill a living creature to eat it. Similarly, I’m not going to pay someone else to do out for me. This was after I was (first) married and started living away from home. Before, food was put in front of me and I ate it, without giving much thought to where it came from. Actually going out to buy our own provisions. made me think about its origins. steve Not that I'm criticising or knocking your choice, but aren't plants living "things" which includes creatures? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Not that I'm criticising or knocking your choice, but aren't plants living "things" which includes creatures? Mike. First there were Vegetarians then Vegans what next? pescatarians probably wouldn’t be if fish shouted when pulled out of the water. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted February 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2021 Wasn't the word 'Vegetarian' actually Navajo for 'Bad Hunter' 2 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Isn't it just what you have for your dinner? I reckon if there wasn't so many preachy, hypocritical and extreme veggies/vegans then I think people would be more open to them. Unfortunately I personally know too many of those types. Went out with a few of them. Anyway, have a joke. 2 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted February 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2021 54 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said: First there were Vegetarians then Vegans what next? I suppose it will have to wait until we evolve chlorophyll cells and can absorb energy by lying in the sun all day... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hroth said: I suppose it will have to wait until we evolve chlorophyll cells and can absorb energy by lying in the sun all day... Some people try that but need ethanol in solution to do it properly! 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Not that I'm criticising or knocking your choice, but aren't plants living "things" which includes creatures? Mike. Yes, but creatures doesn't include plants, and he specified living creatures. All oranges are fruit but not all fruit... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 G'Day Folks 1 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 How do you know when someone is a Vegan? They will tell you.... 4 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium J. S. Bach Posted February 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Hroth said: I suppose it will have to wait until we evolve chlorophyll cells and can absorb energy by lying in the sun all day... Ever been to Fort Lauderdale beach? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Increase that fourfold if the world goes meat free. Mike. Edited February 22, 2021 by Enterprisingwestern Clarification of figures. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 9 hours ago, The Johnster said: Yes, but creatures doesn't include plants, and he specified living creatures. All oranges are fruit but not all fruit... Exactly. Thank you @The Johnster. steve 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted February 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2021 7 hours ago, J. S. Bach said: Ever been to Fort Lauderdale beach? Thats just caramelisation...... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: How do you know when someone is a Vegan? They will tell you.... They look a bit like the Romulans! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted February 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2021 15 hours ago, The Johnster said: I fully understand and respect this; you have made an informed and rational decision based on your interpretation of the right thing to do, and done it, moreover you have not lectured me on my equally informed and rational decision. What I do not respect are decisions to become veggie or vegan based on fashion or lifestyle choice, or spurious 'health' advice from lifestyle magazines, though I do accept that people who do not eat meat may well be paying more attention to their diet than me as they have to examine it in order to access a sufficient amount of protein. I am concerned that my meat comdw from sustainable sources and has had as happy a life and humane a death as possible. Happy meat impinges less on my concience and tastes better as well; free ranging and organically fed makes a difference. Anyone who has been to a concentration camp for chickens (and this is pretty much what they are) and seen how the poor things are kept cannot possibly have a heart or a concience if he/she continues to buy and eat them, or much in the way of taste buds either... Very well put, my thoughts exactly! We buy all of our meat from the local butcher, where there's much better tracability of where it comes from and how the animals were treated - sure it's more expensive, but we find we need much less of it than of the cheaper supermarket stuff, and it tastes much nicer. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2021 Meanwhile - back to something that makes me sometimes RMweb thread drift............. 3 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted February 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, newbryford said: Meanwhile - back to something that makes me sometimes RMweb thread drift............. Thread drift is what makes RMweb so interesting! We're not glued to predestined rails. As it were... 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Where we're going we don't need rails.... 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Increase that fourfold if the world goes meat free. Mike. Not forgetting to subtract all that is grown for animal feed, e.g. most of the barley production, as well as others? I am neutral as far as meat eating is concerned, love a good British roast, but I do wonder how close to the truth the fourfold increase would be, especially as most meat eaters eat a lot of vegetables anyway, even if it is just chips to go with it! Edited February 22, 2021 by Titan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Sheep and goats, for example, eat stuff we can't in areas where we can't grow or harvest crops. Wrt supermarket chickens, it used to be 42 days from a day old chick to a 3.5lb bird - a straight chemical conversion - the feed being matched to the breed, and vice versa. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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