RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted June 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2016 I know I'm a terrible cynic... ..........I know I'm a Cynic, but .... Never had you down as a cynic mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted June 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2016 ANYWAY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 My son lives near Llanberis and I find that in most local shops Welsh speakers switch to English when I make my first contribution to the conversation in English. What Ivan reports is another urban myth, in my view. Similarly, nowadays, you are quite likely to find in France that you will be spoken to in English by native French speakers. But don't let that get in the way of bashoing Johnny Foreigner. Stan We used to holiday in North Wales when I was a kid and it happened all the time. Walk into a shop where a conversation was underway and they'd switch to Welsh quite brazenly. In later years I had North Wales as part of a territory I managed. Nothing had changed. Well other than the girl who worked for me in North Wales was Bolton born and bred. She had, however, lived in Betws y Coed for some years and spoke Welsh with a strong Bolton accent, quite bizarre to hear. She embarrassed a few people who suddenly realised that she understood what they were saying. . 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2016 We used to holiday in North Wales when I was a kid and it happened all the time. Walk into a shop where a conversation was underway and they'd switch to Welsh quite brazenly. In later years I had North Wales as part of a territory I managed. Nothing had changed. Well other than the girl who worked for me in North Wales was Bolton born and bred. She had, however, lived in Betws y Coed for some years and spoke Welsh with a strong Bolton accent, quite bizarre to hear. She embarrassed a few people who suddenly realised that she understood what they were saying. . A former work colleague of mine and his wife were holidaying one year in a cottage in North Wales and went into nearby town to do some shopping. They arrived in a shop and the customer in front of them and the lady behind the counter immediately fell into talking Welsh. The customer pointed to some eggs and asked for a dozen but the lady behind the counter explained that the other ones next to them were fresher and she should have those, so she did - the woman paid for her shopping and left. My former colleague, Graham, then went forward to be served and also asked for a dozen eggs; the woman behind the counter immediately started to pick up some of the less fresh ones at which point Graham told her that he wanted the fresher ones please. He had been talking to his wife in English and he had a fairly neutral sort of accent so unless you knew him you wouldn't suss that he had been brought up in his Welsh speaking family in South Wales and that English was actually his second language. The woman in the shop found out the hard way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The woman in the shop found out the hard way. It's an interesting study in cultural anthropology. I guess it takes more than 700 years to get over being 'subjugated'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I know I'm a terrible cynic but it is still lazy uncorroborated reporting. Essentially, Man posts story on Farcebook and BBC contact him to verify, he repeats post and tells them he doesn't speak Welsh and runs an events company that puts on live music shows. Sorry but the story sounds just like the Navajo indian version and many others and to be honest sounds like a load of boll*x to me. The timing is suspect too.......A Muslim woman speaking Welsh corrected/verbally abused by a man who is then told off by a woman sitting further ahead at the time of the referendum where immigration is a hot topic..........I know I'm a Cynic, but if it quacks like a duck..... Are you suggesting that these situations have been fabricated for political reasons, Dave? That could be so, but I've been witness to minor scenes of a similar nature and had the satisfaction of hearing unpleasant persons leaving themselves open to scorn. Of course, the stories we've been discussing here sound rather polished, but, as one of my drinking buddies is fond of saying, "There's no story so good that it can't be improved by a little embellishment." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 A former work colleague of mine and his wife were holidaying one year in a cottage in North Wales and went into nearby town to do some shopping. They arrived in a shop and the customer in front of them and the lady behind the counter immediately fell into talking Welsh. The customer pointed to some eggs and asked for a dozen but the lady behind the counter explained that the other ones next to them were fresher and she should have those, so she did - the woman paid for her shopping and left. My former colleague, Graham, then went forward to be served and also asked for a dozen eggs; the woman behind the counter immediately started to pick up some of the less fresh ones at which point Graham told her that he wanted the fresher ones please. He had been talking to his wife in English and he had a fairly neutral sort of accent so unless you knew him you wouldn't suss that he had been brought up in his Welsh speaking family in South Wales and that English was actually his second language. The woman in the shop found out the hard way. All it shows is that the shop is rather dodgy when it comes to stock control! When it comes to perishable food, every shop owner ought to sell the oldest stock first, not by selecting which customer, to sell it to. There is another possibility, that the newer egg stock could be less fresh, maybe it was closer to the shop window & thus received more sunlight. However, I still believe your story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 It's funny what makes people smile... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Quack! Best, Pete. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2016 All it shows is that the shop is rather dodgy when it comes to stock control! When it comes to perishable food, every shop owner ought to sell the oldest stock first, not by selecting which customer, to sell it to. There is another possibility, that the newer egg stock could be less fresh, maybe it was closer to the shop window & thus received more sunlight. However, I still believe your story. I can't understand why you shouldn't - why shouldn't a shop have two trays of eggs out at the same time? (Hardly a 'story' anyway as it actually happened) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2016 I had the English to Welsh conversation switch happen to me too back in the seventies in Llangefni, Anglesey. I have never considered it to be representative of the Welsh a whole though, I have several Welsh friends. If it wasn't for the fact that so many people from other countries speak English I'm sure it would happen in the rest of the UK too. As it is people just wait until the 'foreigner' has left before moaning. My brother-in-law and his then girlfriend were once on a train in the Czech Republic where two middle aged women in the same compartment launched into an offensive and critical tirade against the dress and behaviour of foreign tourists. Upon reaching their stop, my brother-in-law and his girlfriend briefly spoke to each other in Czech and left (he was there teaching English in a Czech school and she was Czech). Human nature the world over. The same is true of tolerance and friendliness too though. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Re Welsh people switching languages, it may be nothing personal... I worked with a couple of Welsh guys (in Wales) and they'd be happily talking along in one language until one got to a word they didnt know in that language, so switched to the other language for a few sentences, until another word made them switch back again (etc). Different languages have different ways of explaining things, and each is better in different scenarios (Inuits and snow comes to mind...). There are a lot of people in the world who seem to like playing the victim when they havent even been noticed... not to say it doesn't/hasn't happened, but there may well be more variables at play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 Years ago, 1976? On My intake into the RAF was A guy from North Wales, who's first language was definitely Cymraeg ( Welsh is an English/ Anglo-Saxon word meaning foreigner) every order he received he had to stop and translate in his head to Cymraeg and then carry it out which meant while marching in the early days of training he was like Corporal Jones (now thats an appropriate name) and was a few seconds behind everyone else. I certainly have had the language switch in the Outer Hebrides and Highlands from English to Gàidhlig and in my school days, it was a prelude to being attacked because I had an English Accent ( proper west country it was). My Younger brother who Schooled in the Hebrides ( my secondary school was in Inverness), can catch a few out because he is fluent in the Gàidhlig and several other languages. Of course many in Wales and particularly South Wales are not genetically Welsh at all ( See here https://wellcome.ac.uk/press-release/who-do-you-think-you-really-are-first-fine-scale-genetic-map-british-isles ), But of English decent with incommers from Edward the first on Pembrokeshire was known as England beyond Wales a one point. and then when the mines and Steel works opened many came from England to the new jobs. Even the Leader of Plaid Cymru has the surname Wood which is of English or Scottish origin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDolfelin Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Even the Leader of Plaid Cymru has the surname Wood which is of English or Scottish origin. I think she has connections with the Railway fraternity. Never stops talking about Wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 Please stop it, this is getting too hilarious for me to handle guys... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeeleyBridge Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeeleyBridge Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Re Welsh people switching languages, it may be nothing personal... I worked with a couple of Welsh guys (in Wales) and they'd be happily talking along in one language until one got to a word they didnt know in that language, so switched to the other language for a few sentences, until another word made them switch back again (etc). Different languages have different ways of explaining things, and each is better in different scenarios (Inuits and snow comes to mind...). There are a lot of people in the world who seem to like playing the victim when they havent even been noticed... not to say it doesn't/hasn't happened, but there may well be more variables at play. Trust me, I'm nobody's victim and I know when people are being ar**holes. The examples I cited were just downright rudeness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeeleyBridge Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Arthur please .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2016 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Edited June 23, 2016 by luckymucklebackit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2016 regards the "welsh thing" i had it happen to me at octel in amlwch when i went there to deliver something, the guys began talking welsh when i got there so i let them get on with it, when he said something funny and i laughed he did a double take and said "did you understand what i just said", my reply, "well yes i'm welsh and its my first langauge" (having been schooled in llwyngwril, mold and bala since i was 4), they obviously weren't expecting someone with what they probably heard as a scouse accent to understand them as it happens i've actually quite enjoyed working in Machynlleth this last week being able to hone up my welsh skills, not so much speaking it but listening into conversations and seeing if i can still understand them! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 Is Wales in the EU then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 23, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2016 Is Wales in the EU then? We'll find out tomorrow................. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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