Kernow Models D6xx Update

[No Decorum]

When it's here, you can have one …

Sadly, that’s not always the case. Quite a few models have been sold out before they appear.

[Dunsignalling]

Many years ago, there were only 2 4mm rtr manufacturers (and Trix chiselling away on the edges), Triang and Hornby Dublo.  They would bring out a catalogue every year, usually in time for the christmas rush, and that would be the first inkling of the introduction of a new model, TBA sometime in the following year.  No pre-orders, no news bulletins, no pre-release of artwork of CAD, no pre-production hand painted sample, you just waited for one to appear in the local dealer's window (he was as much in the dark as you were).  The models were made locally, in Margate or Liverpool, so there were no shipping delays and production problems were sorted on the spot.

 

It was tougher for the manufacturers as well, as they could not lay off some of the investment tied down while the model was in production and problems were no doubt cropping up and costing money to sort out by taking pre-orders and hoping that the punters had the patience not to cancel.  

 

Nowadays things are very different.  A much more demanding market insists on a far greater variety of models in a greater variety of liveries, and it is much more worthwhile to the manufacturers to whet the market's appetite before they even start work on the new item.  Kernow are a small outfit commissioning models for niche markets not satisfied by the mainstream, and probably doing as well as the big boys in terms of the time it takes them to get a model on the market after announcing it.  The difference these days is that it all takes place in the full gaze of the market, which comments on sites like this, not always favourably as their patience begins to wear thin a few years down the line.  What would happen if Kernow had simply released a D600 without prior announcement, I wonder?  Presumably those who could afford it and wanted one would have snapped up the first batch in a few days, and some of those would then appear on eBay for silly money.

 

I don't pre-order models, and am happy to wait for them to turn up in the shops where I can spend my money and not have to wait for my purchase to roll along when it feels like it, eventually.  I have been waiting over a year for a Baccy 4575 which they say is imminent, April/May, yeah right, and I think might turn up sometime later this year, and a 94xx which they promised me early this year in last year's catalogue, and which I am thinking is probably not going to appear in the flesh, I mean in the plastic, for at least another year and perhaps more.  Thinking of going s/h for the 4575, but I don't trust anything I cannot see running before I buy it...

 

You have to be philosophical.  When it's here, you can have one, but if it's not here, guess what, you can't have one yet!

Your first paragraph sums up the situation completely - that's how things used to be and they don't work that way any more.

 

Would any of us seriously want to go back to the days of only one or two new locos being introduced every year? I wouldn't, and not just because very few of them were ever Southern. 

 

If you don't pre-order, you take your chances and I've missed a couple of locos over the years that eventually cost me a fair bit extra to acquire s/h, so now I do. I have actually come to prefer it, as it enables me to put the cash aside in advance so it doesn't matter if release coincides with some other expense arising.

 

It would really tick me off if I were to miss out on the particular loco I want after waiting all this time, so I've pre-ordered one D6xx. I may be tempted to get a second depending what else is emerging at the same time but, if I hadn't bought loads of other locos, coaches etc., since it was announced, I'd could easily have saved up enough for one of each by now!

 

John

Edited May 7, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[jjb1970]

I rarely pre-order. I pre-ordered the APT-E and don't regret it but that was a very special case. I can imagine there might be other special cases but for the most part I'd rather just wait and make my decision whether or not to buy when the model is released. Will I miss a few models I'd like? Probably, but its not like there aren't other models to buy and I'm happier opting out of the whole pre-order thing for the most part.

[Clive Mortimore]

Great, let's play the blame game

 

Sorry guys if you are that desperate for a class 41 you would have made one, or brought one made by someone else. be patient it will arrive, remember on the real one's first press trip it ran late owing to an engine failure. So like the prototype it is late.

[Oldddudders]

I am reading some nasty stuff here. I hope those making slurs have some substantiable evidence for their assertions.

 

Edit : I am pleased to say that the offensive contributions have now disappeared. The thread is a better place for that.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Oldddudders

[Ian Hargrave]

I am reading some nasty stuff here. I hope those making slurs have some substantiable evidence for their assertions.

Absolutely correct,Ian.But hey....they've disappeared....wonder why?

[royaloak]

Don't worry about timescales. Look at the GW electrification...............................

I have to deal with that at work, so can we please NOT look at it thankyou.   

Edited May 6, 2017 by royaloak

[mevaman]

Please, please can we not speculate upon the detailed reasons for the long gestation of this model. I am getting tired of people with no knowledge trying to cast blame. I used to work for Kernow by the way!

[JSpencer]

At the end of the day, Kernow are (quite rightly) fussy on details and we talking about prototypes of strange shape which no longer exist.

 

Now a resin model manufacturer does a good model with the limits that resin offers, but RTR manufacturers have the opportunity to do a lot better than that and for the target market, the expectation is high. And we are seeing signs of progress.

 

I am not sure a 50s 60s comparison is reasonable on the grounds that Dublo and Triang were targeting the toy makert first before modelers. The technology and models was quite rustic compared to now.

While RTR was 1 or 2 models a year back then, they were complimented by an awful lot of kits. And people were not distracted by computers, iPhones etc, in order to build them.

['CHARD]

Well sai , Mr. Char .

 

Cheers m' ears!

[Mad McCann]

I think I ordered mine in 2008-9. I had a different email address then. Must update Kernow as I'd forgotten about the project; They were built in Glasgow and  tested along the G&SW, hence my interest.

 

Well, what's another year or twos' wait after all that? ;-)

 

D.

[St Enodoc]

I think I ordered mine in 2008-9. I had a different email address then. Must update Kernow as I'd forgotten about the project; They were built in Glasgow and  tested along the G&SW, hence my interest.

 

Well, what's another year or twos' wait after all that? ;-)

 

D.

Yes, you should do that and also update your credit card details.

[SRman]

In my reply regarding intellectual Property, I had forgotten that Kernow Models, as the commissioning agent, had the intellectual rights to any research or progress Dapol had done - if there was any. As such, these works would have transferred to DJM Dave. The rights, in this and some other commissioned models' cases remain with the people commissioning the work. 

It depends what was on the contracts to start with.

Edited May 7, 2017 by SRman

[Loconuts]

In my reply regarding intellectual Property, I had forgotten that Kernow Models, as the commissioning agent, had the intellectual rights to any research or progress Dapol had done - if there was any. As such, these works would have transferred to DJM Dave. The rights, in this and some other commissioned models' cases remain with the people commissioning the work. 

 

It depends what was on the contracts to start with.

 

This is not quite true, from my days of doing commissioned work I made sure there was a legal and binding contract in place before starting work. There were two requirements that the commissioner had to supply. One being a deposit of 30% or a kit of choice and a legal contract. If a customer changed his mind during the construction period all he got back was either his deposit or a replacement kit. He had no right to any research or work that I had done for his commission unless he paid for it.

[Arthur]

This is not quite true, from my days of doing commissioned work I made sure there was a legal and binding contract in place before starting work. There were two requirements that the commissioner had to supply. One being a deposit of 30% or a kit of choice and a legal contract. If a customer changed his mind during the construction period all he got back was either his deposit or a replacement kit. He had no right to any research or work that I had done for his commission unless he paid for it.

That is YOUR experience, do you have access to any of the contracts or agreements pertaining to this model? Do you actually know what was agreed?

 

It seems you are talking about building a kit to commission. On a rather different level of commitment, have you ever been involved in the commissioning of a RTR model?

 

.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Arthur

[Roy Langridge]

Either position could be correct, or wrong, and we will never know as we are unlikely to be privy to the contracts. What I would say regarding Loconuts post, there is a huge difference between the commissioning party changing their mind and the supplier being in breach of contract. In the latter case all sorts can become possible as compensation. But, once again, unless we had sight of the contract, we know not whether a breach occurred.

 

Roy 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[Arthur]

Indeed.

 

I'm pretty sure that it was Tony Wright who commented that on some kit build commissions the commissioner supplied, and therefore owned, photos and drawings and said, build me that please. On other commissions, Tony did the prototype research, gathered photos etc. and in that case he retained ownership of that data.

 

All depends on the initial agreement.

[jjb1970]

As has been pointed out, everything depends on the contract. Where it gets difficult if a poorly worded or insufficiently detailed contract introduces all sorts of potential for disputes. No idea what sort of contracts are normal in model railways or between commissioners and suppliers but my experience in other industries is that some companies are much better than others when it comes to writing a good contract.

[jonathan452]

FYI - 

D600 Warship OO Gauge update - Dave of DJ Models has just sent us some images of the tooling in progress

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/KernowModelRailCentre/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf > http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/104/Warship_Limited_Editions

Edited May 8, 2017 by jonathan452

[Keith George]

FYI - 

 

https://www.facebook.com/KernowModelRailCentre/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf > http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/104/Warship_Limited_Editions

 

That is very good information to receive.

 

Keith.

[Dogmatix]

How are the NEM pockets mounted/arranged on this model:

 

1) moulded as part of the bogie frame (worst-case scenario)

2) simple pivot on bogie frame

3) close-coupling mechanism ?

 

(or maybe using an NEM dove-tail shaft instead of pockets?).

[Ian Hargrave]

How are the NEM pockets mounted/arranged on this model:

 

1) moulded as part of the bogie frame (worst-case scenario)

2) simple pivot on bogie frame

3) close-coupling mechanism ?

 

(or maybe using an NEM dove-tail shaft instead of pockets?).

Why don't you e mail Kernow and ask ? No one else can give you a definitive answer.

[43179]

A couple of piccies that D6xx fans might like -   

- Not kernows I'm afriad but a larger scale kit that I'm finishing off

 It's a shame that (unless I've misread) Kernow aren't doing 'Bulldog' in Blue with small warning panels as above -  I think it really suits the loco - much better than the full yellow ends on D600  - they looked orrible!  Hopefully Kernow will do us a nice D602 in blue later on.

 

 

Jon

[No Decorum]

I thought for a second that the Kernows were here and my cereal nearly went down the wrong way. Excellent job – that looks magnificent.

[Keith George]

A couple of piccies that D6xx fans might like -   

DSCF1475.JPG

DSCF1472.JPG

- Not kernows I'm afriad but a larger scale kit that I'm finishing off

 It's a shame that (unless I've misread) Kernow aren't doing 'Bulldog' in Blue with small warning panels as above -  I think it really suits the loco - much better than the full yellow ends on D600  - they looked orrible!  Hopefully Kernow will do us a nice D602 in blue later on.

 

 

Jon

 

A   D6xx  in blue,?  sacrilege.

 

Keith