RMweb Premium 30368 Posted July 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2020 Hi David, Very kind of you. The valve gear was partually assembled by DJH which is a first for me! I usually build it all. I will give you a shout re boiler bands, thanks. The Grenn Stuff is a liquid filler! I was soldering the firebox to the running plate and left the iron on the solder too long and melted the firebox slightly! It won't show! Kind regards, Richard B 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted July 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, landscapes said: Good Morning Today we have Hornby A3 60043 Brown Jack, one of Haymarket's A3's. This model came with the German Style Smoke Deflectors and overhead warning signs so it has been tucked away for a few years. This early 1960's period in Brown Jacks history does not fit into my Haymarket MPD layout in 1958/1959, so her she is with deflectors removed and ready for the boiler handrails to be increased in length and run around to the smoke box end and weathered. The 0.45mm brass wire I needed to complete the minor alterations arrived in the post yesterday from Markits. Trying to drill out holes the diameter of a needle and fit handrail knobs that disappear into oblivion when they spring out from the tweezers not to mention trying to thread the brass wire very frustrating. Regards David Good morning David, You've posted some splendid photographs of late. Very evocative indeed! I love the weathering effects you achieve, and BROWN JACK looks splendid. However, since you say your layout is set in '58/'59, then 60043, even with its German blinkers removed, doesn't fit into that period. Not with an A4 boiler (which the model has), which she received in August 1960. The front numberplate's position will also need altering, as will the top lamp iron. Ah, those joys of loco-picking! Regards, Tony. Edited July 6, 2020 by Tony Wright typo error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Hi David, Back in the day is when I was hacking models about myself, nowhere in Tony’s me it must be said, I found a very effective trick with handrail knobs was to get a piece of handrail were and bend it into a V shape. I will then thread 100 knob onto this, and offer it up to the pre-drilled holes in the boiler, with a suitable dab of superglue on the back. It took a few goes to get the hang of it, but once mastered, it proved to be a very effective technique. The pictures coming models look fantastic! ATB Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning David, You've posted some splendid photographs of late. Very evocative indeed! I love the weathering effects you achieve, and BROWN JACK looks splendid. However, since you say your layout is set in '58/'59, then 60043, even with its German blinkers removed, doesn't fit into that period. Not with an A4 boiler (which the model has), which she received in August 1960. The front numberplate's position will also need altering, as will the top lamp iron. Ah, those joys of loco-picking! Regards, Tony. Hi Tony Many thanks for your kind comments. Ops with Brown Jack, I thought I had done all that was needed but in my enthusiasm I completely forgot about the boiler type. I cannot alter the boiler on my model so not sure if its worth moving the smokebox number plate an top lamp iron. I will investigate to see if there is an A3 class member that visited Haymarket in 1959 that was not fitted with german style smoke deflectors and hers the sticking point had its smokebox number on the top hinge of the door, I some how doubt if there is such a combination in the A3 class. But thank you for pointing it out to me, its a mistake I will not make again. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 2 hours ago, bigwordsmith said: Hi David, Back in the day is when I was hacking models about myself, nowhere in Tony’s me it must be said, I found a very effective trick with handrail knobs was to get a piece of handrail were and bend it into a V shape. I will then thread 100 knob onto this, and offer it up to the pre-drilled holes in the boiler, with a suitable dab of superglue on the back. It took a few goes to get the hang of it, but once mastered, it proved to be a very effective technique. The pictures coming models look fantastic! ATB Peter Hi Peter Thank you for your suggestion, I will give that a try as I have an old NE guard's Van that needs handrails fitted. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 Hi Todays photos show two locomotives that I do not think have shown on this thread before. Hornby A3 60043 Brown Jack now finished with smoke deflectors removed and extended handrails and weathered, all be it with the incorrect boiler and smokebox number plate fitted to low. Again I thank Tony for his knowledge and input as I will not make that mistake next time I complete an identity change to a locomotive, as for 60043 Brown Jack I will have to give that some thought on what options I have. The second photo is of Hornby's B1 61243 Sir Harold Mitchell, not a Haymarket locomotive but I do have photos of her there in the late 1950's. I must admit I do like the stormy sky background. Regards David 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted July 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2020 48 minutes ago, landscapes said: Hi Tony Many thanks for your kind comments. Ops with Brown Jack, I thought I had done all that was needed but in my enthusiasm I completely forgot about the boiler type. I cannot alter the boiler on my model so not sure if its worth moving the smokebox number plate an top lamp iron. I will investigate to see if there is an A3 class member that visited Haymarket in 1959 that was not fitted with german style smoke deflectors and hers the sticking point had its smokebox number on the top hinge of the door, I some how doubt if there is such a combination in the A3 class. But thank you for pointing it out to me, its a mistake I will not make again. Regards David Good afternoon David, No A3s were fitted with German blinkers until 1960/'61. As far as I'm aware no A3s had the numberplate on the top hingestrap until they received German blinkers (60097 did eventually as well). Not all, of course. Some even had the top lamp iron lowered, splitting the crossrail into two. A safety feature, in case firemen were electrocuted fitting a top lamp or train headboard. Some A3s did have the crossrail and front numberplate positions transposed. I'll have to check my photos to tell which. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Tony Wright said: Good afternoon David, No A3s were fitted with German blinkers until 1960/'61. As far as I'm aware no A3s had the numberplate on the top hingestrap until they received German blinkers (60097 did eventually as well). Not all, of course. Some even had the top lamp iron lowered, splitting the crossrail into two. A safety feature, in case firemen were electrocuted fitting a top lamp or train headboard. Some A3s did have the crossrail and front numberplate positions transposed. I'll have to check my photos to tell which. Regards, Tony. Hi Tony Thank you for your help, I am not surprised in what you have said, I have had a second look at the model and it does look as though the front number plate may come away from the top hinge so I could raise it up and move the lamp iron as well but the boiler will just have to stay as a reminder to me next time do your homework properly. But I would be interested in your findings in case there is the chance of an identity change. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted July 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2020 54 minutes ago, landscapes said: Hi Tony Thank you for your help, I am not surprised in what you have said, I have had a second look at the model and it does look as though the front number plate may come away from the top hinge so I could raise it up and move the lamp iron as well but the boiler will just have to stay as a reminder to me next time do your homework properly. But I would be interested in your findings in case there is the chance of an identity change. Regards David Good afternoon David, Scottish-based A3s with A4 boilers and GNR tenders in 1958/'59? None, I'm afraid. The only A3s which fit your combination of boiler/tender in 1958/'59 are 60050, 60054 and 60071. TRANQUIL was at Gateshead/Darlington during the time, so that's the one to go for. PERSIMMON and PRINCE OF WALES were at Grantham, so it would be extremely unlikely their ever getting to Scotland. Hope this helps. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Flintoft Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Hi David , Your query regarding New England A.2's at Haymarket sent me looking through my collections of magazines & photos .I found 2 photographs of no .60513 DANTE , both southbound climbing Cockburnspath bank . Whilst 34E pacifics would be rare North of Newcastle they had regular turns to York & Newcastle . York & Gateshead were both notorious for using foreign engines on their own diagrams & this would account for occasional visits to Haymarket , I think . Holyrood60152 's evidence confirms this if you wish to model an A.2/3 you have actually seen . I have been experimenting with photos recently & enclose two you may be interested in : York A.2/2 no. 60503 Lord President on Haymarket , 1959 . (R. Blencowe collection ) York A.2/3 no . 60515 Sunstream on Haymarket . Undated but I would say 1959-1960 ;( A.W.S fitted but no electrification flashes ) Photographer unknown . Cheers , Ray. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJCT Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, landscapes said: Hi Tony Thank you for your help, I am not surprised in what you have said, I have had a second look at the model and it does look as though the front number plate may come away from the top hinge so I could raise it up and move the lamp iron as well but the boiler will just have to stay as a reminder to me next time do your homework properly. But I would be interested in your findings in case there is the chance of an identity change. Regards David I too have a "Brown Jack" which I've de-blinkered and to which I've added the smokebox-side handrails, but IIRC I replaced the whole handrail back to the cab on each side. Unfortunately... while admiring my handiwork I then held it too close to a hot lamp-bulb which distorted the smokebox front slightly, but luckily I was able to replace it with a spare from an earlier A3 bodyshell. This does have the numberplate-above-handrail arrangement, so it matches the pic here - https://web.archive.org/web/20181213171118/http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page25.htm - the pages do take a while to load, but then scroll down to the pic of 60043 at Steele Road; I believe this was taken in June 1961 so it carries the dia.107 boiler as Mr Wright says. This is fine for my layout which is set in 1961, but I'd accept this is a bit late for your 1958/59 period. On p68 of my late friend Harry Knox's "Steam Days at Haymarket" book there's a pic of "Brown Jack", and checking the boiler/chimney details in the RCTS LNER "Green Book" Vol.2A suggests a date in the spring of 1959. One thing I haven't yet done is to remove the builder's plates from the cabsides and add new ones to the smokebox sides, from where they'd have been moved when the blinkers were fitted. And then of course there's the Brassmasters EasiChas P4 conversion to do.... Much enjoying following this thread - keep up the good work ! Alasdair Edited July 6, 2020 by AJCT Tidy-up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted July 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, AJCT said: I too have a "Brown Jack" which I've de-blinkered and to which I've added the smokebox-side handrails, but IIRC I replaced the whole handrail back to the cab on each side. Unfortunately... while admiring my handiwork I then held it too close to a hot lamp-bulb which distorted the smokebox front slightly, but luckily I was able to replace it with a spare from an earlier A3 bodyshell. This does have the numberplate-above-handrail arrangement, so it matches the pic here - https://web.archive.org/web/20181213171118/http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page25.htm - the pages do take a while to load, but then scroll down to the pic of 60043 at Steele Road; I believe this was taken in June 1961 so it carries the dia.107 boiler as Mr Wright says. This is fine for my layout which is set in 1961, but I'd accept this is a bit late for your 1958/59 period. On p68 of my late friend Harry Knox's "Steam Days at Haymarket" book there's a pic of "Brown Jack", and checking the boiler/chimney details in the RCTS LNER "Green Book" Vol.2A suggests a date in the spring of 1959. One thing I haven't yet done is to remove the builder's plates from the cabsides and add new ones to the smokebox sides, from where they'd have been moved when the blinkers were fitted. And then of course there's the Brassmasters EasiChas P4 conversion to do.... Much enjoying following this thread - keep up the good work ! Alasdair Good evening Alasdair, According to the RCTS green book Pt. 2A, BROWN JACK got a Dia. 107 boiler in August 1960. It depends how flexible David is with the dates he depicts on Haymarket. Regards, Tony. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) Hi Apologies for the late reply and thank you to all who have commented and helped out with the alterations to A3 60043 Brown Jack, and thank you Ray for posting the two photos. I have good news and bad news. First I have decided to keep Brown Jack as it was in 1961 so the boiler matches and I managed to remove and raise up the smokebox number plate above the Smokebox door handrail. I do have a Bachmann two tone green deltic that will hopefully compliment A3 60043 so Haymarket will on the odd occasionally be late 1961 but only when Brown Jack is on view. The bad news is when I removed the numberplate there is a blob of glue on the smokebox door top hinge that I cannot remove. So I have decided to replace the entire smokebox door hopefully using a Graeme King resin one if they are still available this should be superior to the Hornby as fitted door as it will have brass handrail and brass smokebox door handles as well. I have contacted Graeme and await his reply. Photo enclosed. Regards David Edited July 7, 2020 by landscapes 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Hi David You've probably thought of this, but I used to get them off with a very sharps scalpel and a flat file Takes a while but pays off. ATB Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said: Hi David You've probably thought of this, but I used to get them off with a very sharps scalpel and a flat file Takes a while but pays off. ATB Peter Hi Peter i have never tried to remove an A3 smoke box door, so I will take your advice. i just-hope it’s not glued on to Well. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I didn't mean the door, I meant the numberplate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said: I didn't mean the door, I meant the numberplate! Hi peter sorry my misunderstanding, the number plate came off quite easily but the glue holding it on was all over the top hinge. I tried removing it with different tools but concerned I would end up removing the hinge detail as well. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Flintoft Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 21 hours ago, landscapes said: Hi Apologies for the late reply and thank you to all who have commented and helped out with the alterations to A3 60043 Brown Jack, and thank you Ray for posting the two photos. I have good news and bad news. First I have decided to keep Brown Jack as it was in 1961 so the boiler matches and I managed to remove and raise up the smokebox number plate above the Smokebox door handrail. I do have a Bachmann two tone green deltic that will hopefully compliment A3 60043 so Haymarket will on the odd occasionally be late 1961 but only when Brown Jack is on view. The bad news is when I removed the numberplate there is a blob of glue on the smokebox door top hinge that I cannot remove. So I have decided to replace the entire smokebox door hopefully using a Graeme King resin one if they are still available this should be superior to the Hornby as fitted door as it will have brass handrail and brass smokebox door handles as well. I have contacted Graeme and await his reply. Photo enclosed. Regards David Hi David In the event that Graeme King can't help you a whitemetal A.3 door is available from Phoenix Precision - their code JEE324 . the smokebox door handles can be sourced from Wizard or Markits . She looks very good anyway . Ray . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ray Flintoft said: Hi David In the event that Graeme King can't help you a whitemetal A.3 door is available from Phoenix Precision - their code JEE324 . the smokebox door handles can be sourced from Wizard or Markits . She looks very good anyway . Ray . Many thanks Ray I have just had a reply from Graeme to say he can supply the smokebox doors. But I appreciate your response as I need to buy some smokebox door handles, I did purchase some about a year ago and could not remember where I got them. It was Wizard Models, so thanks for that. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 Hi Todays photo shows A3 60043 Brown Jack with a more of Haymarket's Pacific locomotives in the East Yard. Regards David 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 Hi Today we have a couple of Sir Nigel's finest simmering in the East Yard. One from each end of the East Coast Main Line, 34A & 64B. Regards David 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted July 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2020 David, You have kindly offered your excellent topic thread for me to update on my progress with the DJH A2/3 kit (60523). Strarting to look like an A2/3 now. I have found the DJH kit so very well thought out and of high quality. As has been said many times, the combination of white metal and brass parts works well and the quality of the etches are very high. Once again thanks, Richard B 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, 30368 said: David, You have kindly offered your excellent topic thread for me to update on my progress with the DJH A2/3 kit (60523). Strarting to look like an A2/3 now. I have found the DJH kit so very well thought out and of high quality. As has been said many times, the combination of white metal and brass parts works well and the quality of the etches are very high. Once again thanks, Richard B Hi Richard Your A2/3 is looking very good indeed, there is no way I could achieve what you have done, I am working on hand rails and handrail knobs at present and they are driving me mad but I am getting there very slowly. So the thought of making up a kit locomotive seems like brain surgery to me at the moment. I do very much enjoy seeing your progress so please feel free to Post your photos any time, I am sure other member will find pleasure at seeing them as well. Thank you for posting them. Regards David 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted July 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2020 8 hours ago, 30368 said: David, You have kindly offered your excellent topic thread for me to update on my progress with the DJH A2/3 kit (60523). Strarting to look like an A2/3 now. I have found the DJH kit so very well thought out and of high quality. As has been said many times, the combination of white metal and brass parts works well and the quality of the etches are very high. Once again thanks, Richard B Good evening Richard, May I ask how you made the riveted sections of the frames underneath the smokebox, please? The DJH kits for both the A2/3 and A2/2 are weak in that area......... This was the first independently-built DJH A2/3 (I made it for a BRM review some years ago, and Ian Rathbone painted it). As can be seen, there is no rivet/stud detail on the front frames where there should be. This one is also devoid of such niceties in that area. Another DJH kit, I made it to assist Hornby in the firm's development of the Thompson Pacifics. At the moment it's being painted by Geoff Haynes; to become? Guess what, 60523! Dis you use one of Graeme King's etches to get the rivet/stud detail? This is one Graeme did himself, which I patch-repainted, detailed, numbered, named, lettered and weathered. The front frame area is superior to the DJH one at source. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Good evening Richard, May I ask how you made the riveted sections of the frames underneath the smokebox, please? The DJH kits for both the A2/3 and A2/2 are weak in that area......... This was the first independently-built DJH A2/3 (I made it for a BRM review some years ago, and Ian Rathbone painted it). As can be seen, there is no rivet/stud detail on the front frames where there should be. This one is also devoid of such niceties in that area. Another DJH kit, I made it to assist Hornby in the firm's development of the Thompson Pacifics. At the moment it's being painted by Geoff Haynes; to become? Guess what, 60523! Dis you use one of Graeme King's etches to get the rivet/stud detail? This is one Graeme did himself, which I patch-repainted, detailed, numbered, named, lettered and weathered. The front frame area is superior to the DJH one at source. Regards, Tony. Hi Tony Great models, if the final Hornby A2/3 is 50% as good as the DJH kit you provided I will be very happy. Regards David 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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