Guest oldlugger Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Hello Dave, You've made a splendid job of this which should inspire many new people coming into the hobby. The weathering and general look of the layout is very nicely executed giving it that all important feel of reality; I think it is this that will inspire any novice builder more than anything else, because the average train set on a board often remains just that, with no life to it. You've shown that it is possible to take basic RTR models and make something with character. Cheers Simon Edited September 6, 2012 by oldlugger 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Dave, I have been reading through this topic too and would echo the comments of oldlugger re. the quality of the weathering and look of the layout. It is nice to see the inventiveness employed on this project: necessity being the mother of invention. I would never have thought of producing scrap metal from pieces of plastic which were then painted (silly me). My favourite tip from the thread. Well done Colin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Brilliant thread I would be interested to know how the baseboards stand up over time, where is it stored will it go damp and saggy (a common problem)as its cardboard? Would love to have a go but only storage is the uninsulated shed and clearly my efforts would be no-where near as good as yours! cheers mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted September 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2012 Mark, your first attempt may not be as good, but you only get better by practicing, and the joy of cardboard is it's really cheap, so even if you make only scenic ( i.e. no track) dioramas, they will get better and better and cost virtually nothing. I don't think Dave's idea is for a long term layout, more an introduction to the hobby, to be replaced by a more robust version at a later date. Stu 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 ....and as has been said, you can come across left-over bits of various types of timber for nothing. Checking my stocks, I have a fair amount of "Conti-board" some MDF and a large sheet of ply which is too big to be an off-cut and could make a decent-sized layout. Hmmmm..... Ed 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
signalmaintainer Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Gets my vote for Topic of the Year as well! Say, were I to attempt the same project here, the exchange rate as of today makes my budget $160.06! The better challenge, however, would be to keep it at $100. Edited September 8, 2012 by signalmaintainer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted September 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2012 On the subject of cheap baseboard materials/wood etc. I can recommend finding a local hardware/DIY store (the High St not the warehouse kind). We have one just round the corner who stocks and cuts wood for you any size etc. and has loads of offcuts piled up outside with nominal prices pencilled on. I picked up 6'x1'6" piece of 12mm ply for less than a tenner, which I think is a bit of a bargain!! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trains&armour Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Getting a bit repetitive, but still can't say anything else than what a brilliant thread! A good looking layout for just 99.88. In fact reading this thread makes me feel quite ashamed! I can't seem to get a layout started with almost ten times that amount of money spend on "real" modelling stuff....... Sierd Jan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyfox Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If I could put into words what this hobby is all about then it could be encapsulated within every post by Dave in this thread - wonderful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Nothing more to add really, just the same as everyone else. Well done, brilliant thread! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 I don't think Dave's idea is for a long term layout, more an introduction to the hobby, to be replaced by a more robust version at a later date. Yeah, that's a pretty fair commment I think. It's a beginner's layout, and the limited operating potential - which could be boosted by some more stock to run - means that inevitably at some point the beginner would want to try a next layout. It's like most first time layouts I suspect - a way to learn techniques, what parts of the hobby appeal the most, an opportunity to learn from mistakes, and to just generally see what the hobby is about. Having said that... if kept dry I suspect the layout would last for ages. How many of us keep stuff for years in cardboard boxes in the loft for example, or the garage or shed? And that's without a coating of PVA and paint to seal them a bit more I mentioned Port Pennan earlier in the thread as an example of a cardboard layout. There's a thread on old RMweb about it here... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21331 ...which having now read again I see actually had a layer of 3mm ply stuck to the bottom to assist in rigidity, so not a wholly cardboard layout as such. On the flipside however, Ken Gibbons has exhibited this layout (albeit locally), and frankly if it will withstand being transported about, erected, put down again, transported and stored several times over then that seems like a fairly decent workout for the concept of a cardboard baseboard. Yes it had ply added, but Ken possibly started from a worse point by using old fruit boxes. My cardboard was practically like new, so I suspect it may well last the course. Ultimately, if the thing is kept dry - which is what most of us do with our layouts, isn't it? - then I don't see any reason why it won't last a good while. I certainly would have loved to have matched the standard of Port Pennan anyway. Top layout. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dave777 Posted September 10, 2012 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Following several enquires in this thread about the weathering on the minerals wagons, I've put together this little demo of the two techniques I used. Before we start, I must just say that I've been completely taken aback by the amount of interest that this thread has generated. I hoped it might gather a few followers, but no way did I anticipate all this fuss! I've found it all a little bewildering if I'm honest. Was it the 'one post a day' format, the challenge of the £100 limit, or the finished layout... or all three? Or something else? Who knows. But whatever it is, just a big thank you for all the comments! Inexplicable and totally unexpected. I never thought there would be a Part 10, so since we're into the realms of 'DVD extras', here's a couple of photos to lead us in. One aspect of this project that I apply to all my layouts is to only model what you can see (or which you're likely to photograph). For plank layouts, where you're only viewing the action from one side, there's no need to model the other sides of bridge walls for example... ...and on this layout, I didn't even paint the other side of the rolling stock But as it happens, that provides us with the perfect blank canvas on which to carry out Part 10. Part 10 - Basic weathering For the first wagon I've used a mixture of two of our eBay Humbrol enamels. I've gone with a more grey mix on this side as opposed to the original repaints which leant more towards the brown. No real attempt to mix them up, just a rough mix and application onto the wagon using a paintbrush. Once it's dry, you need to scrape away this layer of enamel to reveal the original grey underneath (in this case, our original coat of primer). I use this metal spatula, but a flat headed screwdriver will work equally as well. It will need a fair amount of work to take the enamel off, but eventually you'll be left with the effect shown here. This is, I confess, a pretty extreme way to weather wagons. For this project I didn't have to worry too much about abusing the wagons since they were so inexpensive, and you can see in the close up with the spatula that in a couple of places I've accidently scratched down through the primer underneath (personally I think it just adds to the overall battered look, but others may not agree). Applying this sort of approach to your £6 or £7 Bachmann or Farish mineral may be seen as a bit risky, but people did enquire about the techniques I had used and... well... that's what I did But what about something 'softer', something that doesn't involve scraping away and possibly damaging a lovely RTR, factory-applied livery? Watercolours are a gentle way of weathering many things on a layout, including ballast and buildings. Again I'm using the exact same technique that was shown in Part 6 of this thread where we tackled the rolling stock. Burnt Umber is my colour of choice here because I could only afford a single one as part of the £100, and it's a decent all round choice for dirt and rust. Just a reminder that the £1.70 I quoted won't net you the 21ml tube shown here - that's nearer £3. As it happens, my £1.70 for a 14ml tube in Part 6 of the thread was almost certainly an error as that will only get you an 8ml tube I believe (I think I got confused with my tube sizes). Either way, it doesn't matter - 8ml is more than enough as you really do only use a tiny amount each time. My 21ml tube has lasted me 3 years so far and it must still be 90% full or thereabouts. In much the same way as the enamel technique, we're just painting the neat stuff on in a fairly haphazard way (although unlike the enamels there's no need to cover the whole of each panel on the wagon). Using the same paintbrush and some water (I use a £1 Ikea ashtray as my waterholder which, as a non-smoker, I bought for this very purpose, but a plastic cup will do equally as well), wet the paintbrush and 'paint' over the wagon sides to move the watercolour around. As you can see from this closeup, you really do just splash the water on fairly liberally. Leave it to dry/evaporate (which depending on the room temperature can be 15 minutes or several hours), and you'll be left with a reasonable impression of all over dirt and/or rust. To further the effect, once it's dry you can then apply some more water onto the wagon sides and then dot or stipple some watercolour from the tube. You can see at top right of the wagon that it's pretty wet. Again leave to dry and you'll have something nearer to rust patches. Note also how it runs into the crevices (and how I missed a stanchion in the middle). If you want to try a different or additional effect, blob on some neat watercolour onto the dry wagon sides to create some additional marks of darker colour. Watercolours come in a variety of colours - here's some of the ones I use (I've a white colour somewhere as well). Remember that you can mix and match these in just the same way as you can with enamels or acrylics. At the end of the session - if you've been using the same paintbrush - your water will be looking pretty murky (as will your tissue for dabbing on). Ideal for further washes or touching up here and there. And the best bit about using watercolours? If you don't like it, simply wipe it off again. Couple of additional comments. I used seperate techniques on each wagon just as a demonstration, but of course there's nothing to stop you combining enamels and watercolours on the same wagon - that's what I did on the minerals in Post 6. As any good weatherer will tell you, there really isn't one single method suitable for all instances. Always work from photos. It's very easy to fall into the trap of modelling what you think something should look like and not what it actually does. Fortunately when it comes to wagons, there are numerous books that provide suitable photos, but even better (and free), Paul Bartlett's website provides plenty of reference material to work from. I didn't use photos for this exercise, mainly because the wagons themselves are non-prototypical anyway, but my own weathering techniques leapt forward when I started working from photos. It really is a case of just copying what you see - some grey there, some brown there, a darker brown on that bit. It's almost painting by numbers. Finally, I consider myself a long way from being an expert weatherer. There are others who are way better than me at this, so please take a look at their techniques. I do! I just think with watercolours it really is a case of 'anyone can do it', because you're safe in the knowledge that if you get it wrong or you don't like the finished article you can easily remove it... and then try again of course. Thanks again for everyone's kind comments on this thread. Extraordinary Edited September 10, 2012 by Dave777 24 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold traction Posted September 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2012 Dave, Don't knock yourself! The thread, idea and finished layout have all contributed to making it such a great thread and read! It really is amazing what you can do, when you put your mind to it. It's also given some great inspiration to all of us, that we can get a layout built which doesn't have to be huge or expensive. I have noticed a number of comments from other members on it being a good challenge idea. I've actually thought of a slightly different challenge idea though: The OO and N gauge Setrack starter sets. Both contain virtually the same elements which will make the same oval layout with a couple of sidings. OO contains 7 x ST-226 No 2 Radius Double Curve 2 x ST-255 No 2 Radius Standard Curve 5 x ST-201 Double Straight 3 x ST-200 Standard Straight 1 x ST-240 Right Hand Turnout 1 x ST-241 Left Hand Turnout 1 x ST-202 Short Straight 2 x ST-270 Buffer Stop, Sleeper Built 2 x ST-271 Decoupling unit 1 x ST-273 Pair Power Connecting Clips 1 x STP-OO Plan Book N Contains Plan Book with instructions for the system 6x Standard Straights 3x Double Straights 5x No.1 Radius Standard Curves 6x No. 1 Radius Double Curves 1x Right-Hand Point 1x Left-Hand Point 2x Sleeper-Built Buffer Stops 2x Power Clips Now I'm not saying you need to go out and buy this set, but what we could do is try to build a layout using no more than what comes in this set!! I think it could be quite an interesting challenge in itself! Cheers Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 So much can be learned from this thread. Thanks for doing this and also updating it with the weathering of the wagons. I myself have had a go at making the scrap loads for the wagons and also the pipes. Turned out not to bad if I say so myself. This is my first foray into this kind of thing so a pat on your back is deserved. It has given me the confidence to give you weathering techniques a go as well !! Thanks Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodshaw Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Was it the 'one post a day' format, the challenge of the £100 limit, or the finished layout... or all three? Or something else? For me it was all three, plus the fact that it was all so simply and honestly explained. Well done. So next...a layout for £80? (I'll get my coat...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted September 11, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2012 Traction, The Shake-the-box layout, by your namesake Ian, did exactly that, but with a Hornby trainset. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold traction Posted September 11, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2012 Hi Stu, Yes I read all of that one and have the Hornby magazines to refer back to, I just think that there is a lot to be said for these small self imposed restricted types of layout. It can be the train set such as Ian Morton did with the Shake-The-Box layout or as above using the starter set of just track. They can be quick to build which hopefully prevents them from stopping halfway through, but do offer such a lot in getting the imagination working and practicing different skills. I think thats why Dave has created such a brilliant thread. Everything about it, the reasons for doing it, how it's been written and the self imposed restrictions all make it a cracking read, and at the start he didn't think it was worthy of a magazine article, I think we all agree it is! Cheers Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiptonian Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Most layouts on this forum, including the finest and most expensive, get a steady trickle of replies. Then along comes this one! The number of responses to this thread says it all. So many of us on this forum can identify with low skills and less money (Dave 777, however, has completely disqualified himself from the first). These simple low cost methods show just what is possible. Congratulations on a brilliant job superbly presented. Many thanks indeed. -Al. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
branchie Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Fantastic, just fantastic. Sometimes the simpler things are just as satisfying/ rewarding ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Very inspiring for those of us who think they can't afford to build something, another kick to hopefully get me out of my armchair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullie Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 This is a fantastic thread and reminded me that my micro layout Upbech St Mary was originally built in two box files spare at work using some Peco points, scenic items and buildings that I had laying around from earlier projects. The only thing I bought was three yards of plain Peco code 75. Since then I have redone the scenery twice and inserted extra box files but always at minimal cost. In fact I have bought no new track and I built the original in 2008! The only money I have spent was on some DAS modelling clay (£3) for the inset track and some wire for the new box files and some rewiring. Even the wood I used to strengthen the alignment of the box files was left over from some dismantled furniture. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/49660-upbech-st-mary/page__fromsearch__1 I have cheated on stock as I already had most of that and have bought some since including a Derby Lightweight DMU, that was £100 on its own with decoders but that was a major purchase. The layout is currently dismantled and stacked down the side of my computer table and I'm not sure about its future. Being over four years old I fancy building a new micro, it will be on a budget again and this thread is really inspirational. American N gauge is the favourite and I've found a site in the U.S. that sells resin kits of early logging locos to fit on Kato chassis and both kit and chassis are reasonably priced, in fact ideal as a Christmas present! If I do dismantle Upbech everything will be recycled if possible and no doubt go in a future project. I agree that something like this thread would make a great challenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fresian Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Superb modelling and I can't get over the transformation with the wagons. I've been away from the hobby for a while and am pretty shocked at the cost of some models these days. I know Hornby have upped their game in recent years, but a bit of weathering (ian Futers style) and flushglaze windows can transform any 1970s or 80s diesel. I've started a small 4 x 2 layout based on the Edinburgh & Dalkeith railway, which originally ran through what is now my back garden although, probably looking around Leith end for inspiration, due to there still being a mix of some fine architecture and dereliction as well as the opportunity for some small industrial working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauricediplock Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have now read this complete post twice, Dave I have to say that it is a great post. I live in Spain where model shops are as frequent as hens teeth hence modelling supplies are in short supply, after reading your post I will now be re starting my, nowhere near completed layout, and employing as many 'Dave tricks' as possible. Many thanks for the inspiration. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted September 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) so since we're into the realms of 'DVD extras' as in all good series's...does that mean there will be a sequel Dave? Edited September 14, 2012 by bcnPete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercity125 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Absolutely fantastic!!! I've really enjoyed following this thread and wanted to say that not only was the challenge of building the micro layout for under £100 worth following, but so was the end result. A layout to be proud of in my opinion, and it's been an inspiration for me (and countless others). Your scenic methods have encouraged me to experiement more with techniques and household materials. I look forward to following your next challenge................. Best wishes, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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