Mike W2 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I can't seem to find my 00 track plan book with Minories in it. Can anyone send me a copy of the Minories plan for 00 scale? If possible, with the 1ft by 1ft squares, similar to plans in Railway modeller magazine or if not, with information on baseboard size. thanks Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Minories and it's variations will fit in a wide range of spaces so 'including squares' isn't really relevant. http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page61a/index.html scroll down that for the plan and original size (60x8in on 3mm/ft) although it lacks the squares, as I say above it's about the point layout not the size. You can squeeze it into something smaller (to a degree), or grow it in length quite happily. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W2 Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Thanks for that but I already have a track plan for it but it's not to scale. I was hoping for one drawn to scale, so I can figure out what size trains it can take, platform widths and things like what type of points it uses etc etc. I have an idea based on Minories and I need to work out how to adapt it to fit my idea. thanks Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2012 If you want to work out sizes etc from a trackplan the best idea is to get hold of the Peco turnout plans http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=pointplans and arrange them as per the track plan or your version of it. This allows you to experiment with different radii to establish what area the pointwork will need or how tight you can make it in order to save space. The key to Minories is the layout of the pointwork and once you know how much room that will take you will know how much room you've got left in the area in which you plan to build the layout - enabling you to see if you've got enough space for the platform lengths or hidden sidings you need for the trains you intend to run. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Minories is an excellent plan for a small, main line terminus. My first Bradford North Western was based on it and was really successful. One little piece of advice - don't do as I did, which was to build the plan as a mirror image of CJF's original. Doing so reduces the length of departing trains that can fit. CJF knew what he was doing! Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W2 Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 I've been having a go with the Peco point templates, using the medium radius, I'm going to try again with small radius points as I think the medium are too big. I agree the pointwork is crucial but I'd still like a scale plan if poss as a starting point to work from. thanks Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I've got a copy of "60 plans for small railways" in front of me, which doesn't have a plan as such, but has a couple of scale 3D sketches (for the passenger only version and the version with the goods yard), with a scale alongside. The size of the layouts are 6'8" x 9" or 1'5" respectively, which allowing 2" per track makes the platforms 1 1/2" wide. The platforms are approx 4' long on the first plan (on the second, the front platform road is 6 or so inches shorter to allow access to the goods headshunt). The remaining 2'8" is the pointwork, which makes each point approx 8" long. I'm not sure which radius was used, but given that CJF's aim in designing it was to get a terminus in a small space, I'm guessing he used the smallest radius available. But as has already been said, one of the beauties of the plan is that it can be easily adapted to suit a given space (within reason). Nigel Spate (Xerxes Fobe on here) was involved in building and operating a Minories-style layout a few years ago (its name unfortunately escapes me), and may be able to advise further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W2 Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 That might be the book I've got but can't find! Some useful info there! That answers the platform width question, I suspected they would be quite narrow. Eight inches long is about the same as the Medium Radius points, which are too big in my mind, the small radius ones are about 7 inches long, so might work better, as long as the dreaded setrack points are avoided! This is what I'm thinking - total layout size 12ft by 1ft, including some kind of fiddle yard. Max train size will be a class 37 or 47 pus 4 Mk 1 or Mk 2 coaches - this equates to about 4ft 4 or 4ft 5. So there has to be at least 2 platforms capable of handling that (not bothered if the loco goes past the platform ramps) as well as the sidings in the fiddle yard. It's passenger/parcels only, Scotrail themed with local loco hauled trains and DMU's. My McRats and 37/4's will dominate the haulage with a few 47's. thanks Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Thanks for that but I already have a track plan for it but it's not to scale. I was hoping for one drawn to scale, so I can figure out what size trains it can take, platform widths and things like what type of points it uses etc etc. I have an idea based on Minories and I need to work out how to adapt it to fit my idea. As stationmaster and I both said/implied - the beauty of the design isn't as specific as a fixed size. In OO I'd say the minimum you'd want is 3 coaches plus a loco (which could be a tank engine - or at a push (but really pushing it to the minimal) a 2 coach DMU or similar. So lets' go for the former - that gives you say 3'6" for the platform section, with tight points probably 2'6" for the points.. so rough guess would be you could squeeze it into a 6" length or 72". The length given in my link is 80" which would allow say medium points and a bit more room in the platforms. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 That might be the book I've got but can't find! Some useful info there! That answers the platform width question, I suspected they would be quite narrow. Eight inches long is about the same as the Medium Radius points, which are too big in my mind, the small radius ones are about 7 inches long, so might work better, as long as the dreaded setrack points are avoided! This is what I'm thinking - total layout size 12ft by 1ft, including some kind of fiddle yard. Max train size will be a class 37 or 47 pus 4 Mk 1 or Mk 2 coaches - this equates to about 4ft 4 or 4ft 5. So there has to be at least 2 platforms capable of handling that (not bothered if the loco goes past the platform ramps) as well as the sidings in the fiddle yard. It's passenger/parcels only, Scotrail themed with local loco hauled trains and DMU's. My McRats and 37/4's will dominate the haulage with a few 47's. thanks Mike Completely doable. give yourself 3' for the throat, 4'6 for the platforms and 4'6 for the fiddle yard. I'd say mediums would be very likely to be ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I don't think I've seen the Goods Yard one. Just how different is it (I don't like passenger trains.....) Best, Pete. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Minories is an excellent plan for a small, main line terminus. My first Bradford North Western was based on it and was really successful. One little piece of advice - don't do as I did, which was to build the plan as a mirror image of CJF's original. Doing so reduces the length of departing trains that can fit. CJF knew what he was doing! Ian Hi Ian. It's funny you should say that: I also mirror-imaged it for my previous layout's branch line but as I also stretched it by another 2' or so, train lengths weren't a problem for me. What it did do was snarl up the operation of the parcels bay as it required a double shunt to get trains back out of it! I also adapted it somewhat by adding a double-slip leading across to a turntable, so as to avoid having to shunt locomotives into the goods sidings before setting back into the turntable and sheds. I also agree that it is an excellent plan, to use 'as is' or in adapted forms. Edited August 10, 2012 by SRman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted August 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2012 I don't think I've seen the Goods Yard one. Just how different is it (I don't like passenger trains.....) Best, Pete. well, I may not talk to you anymore. The goods shed variant has a kick back headshunt coming off the nearest platform, then going into a 2-road goods shed in front of that platform. The rest of the plan is just as before. The extra space is 8" of width. (My copy of 60 Plans for Small Railways is the second edition, 10th impression dated Nov. 1969. Minories is plan 49s, the expanded plan is 50s but they are not named.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted August 11, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Tried looking at google images to see if any plans on there? There shouldn't be of course cos it's copyright............ http://3.bp.blogspot... - close up.JPG (think this is the most minimal of space version) Edited August 11, 2012 by Russ (mines a pint) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusDe Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) The great attraction of Minories, to me at least, is the sweeping station throat, which gives a air of complexity, without the complex, and avoids reverse curves through small radius point work. Unfortunately the throat, using off the shelf point work, does use up a lot of space. Doing a quick 5min job on AnyRail for your 12x1 space does suggest it is doable for your modern loco plus 3, but only if you have a traverser fiddle yard. If you want a Scottish theme, you can do a 5 platform Queen Street in the same space and gain a bit on platform and fiddle yard lengths and save the cost of one point, with the crossovers being located in the tunnel trains enter/leave the tunnel on either line in real life. It would be cramped in the space, but a few extra inches on the width could make for a nice layout, alternatively you could also keep the extra platform/train lengths for a pointed fiddle yard which would perhaps be easier for solo operation etc. I personally have no problem with the bottom platform being no more than a platform edge, as it helps protect stock from being knocked off the layout when the track is so close to the edge, but many folk would prefer a real rather than a imaginary platform! Anyway, I hope these sketches help feed the creative juices! Angus Edited August 12, 2012 by AngusDe 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It just seems a shame to me to have half the length of the layout for fiddling. If you use the "isographic" version you could develope the kickback road into goods or M.U. servicing in front of the FY. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusDe Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) In my haste I uploaded the wrong minories sketch, here is a more faithful version, but it uses the same space etc:- Angus Edited August 12, 2012 by AngusDe 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W2 Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 I can't quite get it to work on anyrail either. The problem also is the baseboards would be 4ft by 1ft and given the max train length is something like 4ft 4 or 5in, I'm not sure a traveser would work and I've even tried saving some length on the point work by using a 3 way point. So my question is - has anyone got any ideas about how this can be done. My criteria would be the following. 1) Max train length is a class 37 or 47 plus 4 mk 1 or 2 coaches, approx 4ft 4 or 5in. At least 2 platforms would need to accodate this length train and all of the fiddle yard sidings. 2) The baseboards are 4 ft by 1 ft, with a total length of 12ft 3) The track plan is to be based on Minories with 3 platforms and a loco stabling siding and the trains must be able to enter the scenic section and arrive at any platform and vice versa. thanks Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Use cassettes rather than traversers etc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't see how cassettes would take less length than a traverser, and I'd have thought 4 coaches+loco would be a bit long for comfort. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusDe Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) A couple more thoughts. On the 3 x 4ft boards, you could have the traverser mechanics on a single board and the deck slightly longer? But that would require some quality woodwork on the baseboards for hassle free operation!.. Keeping all the pointwork on the central board would simplify wiring, and (to some extent) construction. Fitting it all into 12ft is still a squeeze and my only thoughts involve double slips! You'd need a scenic break that would disguise the entry/exit being essentially single track, I've also added the suggested carriage sidings/parcels/whatever to hide the fiddle yard in the domestic setting. The trouble is you've lost some of the flowing curves of classic minories, and double slips can be a bit more problematical for wiring and trouble free operation. You've also lost the ability for parallel arrivals/departures that you'd have with a traverser or a scissors crossing in the fiddle yard if you had a bit more room. If it is purely a domestic, single handed operation you wouldn't notice this restriction tho'... Just some thoughts, hope they help. Angus Edited August 12, 2012 by AngusDe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 In my haste I uploaded the wrong minories sketch, here is a more faithful version, but it uses the same space etc:- Angus It's still not quite right - the facing crossover is in the wrong place. See http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cqP72O35CNs/TdYIYi3cuLI/AAAAAAAABVw/gRT_1vbACK4/s1600/Minories+-+close+up.JPG as posted above by Russ (mine's a pint). Sorry to be so pedantic but CJF's combination of turnouts is pure genius! Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusDe Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It's still not quite right - the facing crossover is in the wrong place. See http://3.bp.blogspot... - close up.JPG as posted above by Russ (mine's a pint). Sorry to be so pedantic but CJF's combination of turnouts is pure genius! Ian Your right Ian, corrected plan inserted! You'd think I'd know it instinctively, having played around with it for 40+ years, lol! Angus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W2 Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Nice ideas but double slips confuse me, I've had a go on someone's small shunting layout that had them and I kept getting them wrong! I'm thinking about making it a single track in and out as that would simply matters. thanks Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) That works too. After I dismantled my old layout, I set up the branch terminus with a temporary fiddle yard (consisting of a single track!) and took the left-hand outbound track out of commission beyond the crossover. Operationally it still provided much interest for me until I was finally ready to commence the new layout. Edited August 13, 2012 by SRman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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