Dock Green

[chaz]

Dodgy test

 

Why dodgy? Well I can't assemble the layout in the house, especially now that the only room big enough - the kitchen - has had a total make-over. So this means I can't set up the lighting beam so I am rather working in the dark.    Apologies for the King Kong hand intruding into some of these pictures.

 

These three photos show the test I have done using the warm white LED - my preferred option as a set of these will draw the least current.

 

The first shows the canopy illuminated only by the room light, one of those pathetic eco lights that make it look darker. The room does also have two big double fluorescent tubes but they are arranged in a "V" and flood the room with light, including the platform under the canopy - no good for this test.

 

 

I thought it better not to correct the colour balance as it might interfere with the test.

 

Next shot shows the LED facing downwards. Assuming an equivalent voltage of 15V and with a 1K0 resistor in series the current flowing should be about 13mA - well within spec' for the LED.

 

 

I judge this light patch to be too bright and too sharply delineated.

 

The last shot has the LED inverted (pointing upwards) so that it reflects off the underside of the roof.

 

 

A less intense light with more diffused edges.

 

Anybody care to comment on these?

 

I did also test the grain of wheat bulb....

 

 

and the dial lamp.....

 

 

I judge that the dial lamp, being so large, is just too diffuse and the GoW lamp looks very little different to the LED. It's hard to judge from the photos, easier with the test in front of me, but I still don't really know what it will look like when the lighting beam with it's fluorescent tubes stretched along the front of the layout is in place.

 

What I could do is add LEDs to a couple of bays and try them out at Portsmouth on the 29th. If it looks good I can carry on and do the whole length, if it doesn't I can think again.

 

Next posting will deal with fixing the LEDs. As they will be facing upwards the mountings should be as small as possible to avoid shadows.

 

Chaz

 

PS - it has just occurred to me - two bays with the LEDs facing down and another two with them facing up will be a better test. I dont intend to leave them on when the show opens but I can use five minutes beforehand to assess the effect.

 

It would be nice to have a room big enough to set it all up in.....

Edited November 19, 2014 by chaz

[Siberian Snooper]

I quite like the diffused upwards led photo.

[Softvark]

I quite like the diffused upwards led photo.

 

I agree

[puddlejumper]

I quite like the diffused upwards led photo.

Me too

[chaz]

A friend of mine who saw the photos of the canopy lights has just told me that he thinks they look too bright - railways were gloomy places. I think he is probably right on the evidence solely of the photos. However when the layout lighting beam is in place the overall light level will be much higher and so, I suspect, the canopy lights will then not look as bright. But it will take a test at the next exhibition (behind closed doors of course!) to decide. WTS.

 

Chaz

[Simond]

Chaz

 

My experience is that the 2 x GOW in series is yellower than your trial appears, and if so, I'd prefer it, but based on your photos I'd go with the upwards-oriented led.

 

Best

Simon

[Donw]

I like the upward LED as it gives a better light spread but I do remember those sort of places as having pools of light with darker spaces between not at all good working conditions until flurescents became common. So do you want people to see under there or do you want to recreate the gloomy poorly lit sort of place I remember?

 

Don

 

ps the downward LED gave a pool of light but may need to be a little dimmer.

[chaz]

Chaz

 

My experience is that the 2 x GOW in series is yellower than your trial appears, and if so, I'd prefer it, but based on your photos I'd go with the upwards-oriented led.

 

Best

Simon

 

That will depend on the voltage across them, Simon. My initial test, away from the canopy had two GoWs in series, hooked up to the DCC bus. Of course giving the pair 12V DC would be yellower and it would also make them last longer. There is no reason why I shouldn't include a couple of GoWs in my test set up. I have 12V DC available on the DG baseboards (it powers the Tortoises).

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I like the upward LED as it gives a better light spread but I do remember those sort of places as having pools of light with darker spaces between not at all good working conditions until flurescents became common. So do you want people to see under there or do you want to recreate the gloomy poorly lit sort of place I remember?

 

Don

 

ps the downward LED gave a pool of light but may need to be a little dimmer.

 

"So do you want people to see under there or do you want to recreate the gloomy poorly lit sort of place I remember?"   I think the latter is more important to me. You can see details under the roof even without light. So lighting is not essential, but Dock Green is all about atmosphere so if I can get the lighting to add to it I will be happy. If it looks wrong I won't bother.

 

"ps the downward LED gave a pool of light but may need to be a little dimmer."   I take your point, however it's not as easy to dim an LED as an incandescent bulb. Increasing the resistance with one of these high output LEDs doesn't always have much effect. An electronic circuit - an astable - will do the job, and is simple enough to make up include in the lighting circuit, although it wouldn't like the square AC of the DCC bus. Better to hook it up to the 12V DC.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

When I made the canopy I wanted to be able to remove it easily. The support column at this corner is the only one that is fixed, the canopy just rests on the others.

 

 

The brass tube of the column slides into a larger tube fixed into the corner of the structure. A hole drilled right through allows a much smaller tube to be pushed in, locking both tubes together and securing the canopy. By reaching underneath the locking pin can be pushed out, releasing this corner.

The other corner at this end of the canopy is supported by a beam, secured with a captive 8BA screw. As with the columns the other beams are not fastened but just rest on the strips glued to the wall.

 

 

The beam is plywood so I glued a short length of brass "U" channel to its end and soldered the screw to this.

The other end of the canopy is supported by a strip glued to the end wall that finishes the baseboard and is fixed by a couple of CSK wood screws.

 So it didn't take me long to remove the canopy to install some lights.

(You will note that I made no attempt to model the underneath of the canopy realistically. The prototype would have a system of steel girderwork, not pieces of ply' and foamboard! I have never bothered to model features that are not visible from any reasonable viewing angle. However I do pay for my laziness when I take low-level (trackside) photos.)

This is a piece of stripboard with a warm white LED and a resistor installed. I drilled out one of the holes for a small fixing screw.

 

 

I gapped the copper tracks so that the fixing screw does not make a short-circuit.

 

 

Here's one of these fixed into the canopy, with the LED facing upwards. (I must cut the remaining Peco track pins - those points are vicious!)

 

 

I put two of these in adjacent bays because I wanted to be able to assess how the areas between each pool of light look. If the effect with the LEDs pointing upwards is unsatisfactory I can quickly turn the fittings over so that the LEDs point down and try that.  What I want is a gloomy, poorly lit effect - the lights should add to the "Dock Green atmosphere".

 

One of the hazards of afterthoughts is getting tools in - it proved just possible to drill holes in the structure for wires to pass through with this pin-chuck.

 

 

I fitted two other bays of the canopy with a similar arrangement but with GoW bulbs so that I can test the effect of these. They are wired in series.
The test fittings will be connected with crocodile clip leads to both the DCC bus and the 12V DC in turn to see the effect.

The tests can be done before the doors open at the Portsmouth show. Once I have decided which setup I prefer (if any) all the bays can be equipped in the same way and the wiring made more permanent.

 

Chaz
 

Edited November 22, 2014 by chaz

[Simond]

That will depend on the voltage across them, Simon. My initial test, away from the canopy had two GoWs in series, hooked up to the DCC bus. Of course giving the pair 12V DC would be yellower and it would also make them last longer. There is no reason why I shouldn't include a couple of GoWs in my test set up. I have 12V DC available on the DG baseboards (it powers the Tortoises).

 

Chaz

Hi Chaz

 

Yes but, no but...

 

The colour of the light will, of course, depend on voltage for the GoWs, but I rather doubt it for the LEDs, which should emit the same spectrum from "barely visible" to "damn".

 

Assuming your preinstalled resistors will prevent the latter, might it be worth the inclusion of a pot in the feed to the lights, at least whilst you are in experimental mode? Or indeed, given the vagaries of exhibition halls, even permanently installed under the boards so you can adjust if necessary? Which, given your earlier comments about dimming LEDs, might not be enough - but as you said, you could drive an adjustable astable from the Tortoise supply.

 

Best

Simon

[81A Oldoak]

I'm waiting for my extra long static grass fibres to arrive in the post. Until they arrive, I shall do some ballasting, painting of rail-sides and make some improvements to the wiring. Meanwhile, here are some photos showing my 56XX in front of the new vegetation and some pre-weathering pictures. The 56XX is another of those locos that IMHO falls into the compulsively ugly class, but one can't model South Wales without one. The model was built from the late John Maidment's J&M kit; his untimely demise was a great loss to our hobby.

[chaz]

Hi Chaz

 

Yes but, no but...

 

The colour of the light will, of course, depend on voltage for the GoWs, but I rather doubt it for the LEDs, which should emit the same spectrum from "barely visible" to "damn".

 

Assuming your preinstalled resistors will prevent the latter, might it be worth the inclusion of a pot in the feed to the lights, at least whilst you are in experimental mode? Or indeed, given the vagaries of exhibition halls, even permanently installed under the boards so you can adjust if necessary? Which, given your earlier comments about dimming LEDs, might not be enough - but as you said, you could drive an adjustable astable from the Tortoise supply.

 

Best

Simon

 

Thanks Simon, a simple potentiometer is an option but if I decide to fit a brightness control I am more likely to make up an astable. This works in the same fashion as a domestic dimmer. It works by pulsing the output so that it is only on for a percentage of the time. Providing the pulse frequency is kept high enough not to produce a visible flicker it works well. It's a very simple circuit using only a 555 timer chip and a few resistors and capacitors.

 

However all this will remain subject to the results of the tests I will do next Saturday.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I'm waiting for my extra long static grass fibres to arrive in the post. Until they arrive, I shall do some ballasting, painting of rail-sides and make some improvements to the wiring. Meanwhile, here are some photos showing my 56XX in front of the new vegetation and some pre-weathering pictures. The 56XX is another of those locos that IMHO falls into the compulsively ugly class, but one can't model South Wales without one. The model was built from the late John Maidment's J&M kit; his untimely demise was a great loss to our hobby.

 

OY!!! What's all this then? Nasty Swindon things are intruding. Excellent modelling, but come on, Mr Klein - and no, you can't have running powers - the yard foreman has put his foot down. He says that their pony trucks derail too easily....

 

(Did the 56XX tanks run in London?) Outrage here will be mollified by the promise of a layout visit.....

Edited November 22, 2014 by chaz

[chaz]

This is the office which sits under the canopy, which I didn't originally intend to fit with interior details or lights. The prospect of fitting lights under the canopy has made me reconsider.

 

 

There's not much point in putting in an interior without lights - it's so gloomy in there you can't really see that it's empty at the moment and if I put lights in it will become obvious that it's empty, so the two go together. I painted the floor to represent lino' - but I needn't have bothered as it's impossible to see it through the windows when the building is in place.
The back wall of the office is the piece of ply' that stretches across the end of the baseboard. The section that forms the wall in the office can be painted and detailed.

There is a theory that if you can't draw your design you won't be able to make it. Whilst I don't altogether agree with that it certainly makes it much easier to realise. You don't have to be Albrecht Durer, simple sketches will do.

 

 

Some details, such as a clock, notice board, shelves, sink etc will be best fixed to the back wall; Others such as a desk under the windows, a couple of stools, a filing cabinet, maybe a bloke filling in forms etc will be fixed to the floor. There are a lot of things I could model in there but I am sticking to my usual approach - if the available sight-lines (in this case through windows) mean that neither the public nor the operators can see it, then there is no point in modelling it.

 

 

 

I have a feeling I'm going to be making a lot of very fiddly little bits and pieces.....

 

Chaz

Edited November 22, 2014 by chaz

[chaz]

The appearance of 56xx tanks in London was very rare, verging on zero. I have never seen a photo or reference. However, an ex-LSWR H16 4-6-2T or SR W 2-6-4T may be possible on a transfer to and from Feltham.........

 

NO IT WOULDN'T!!! Definitely not.   It would come off at Ferme Park and any wagons for Dock Green would be work forward as a trip behind one of Hornsey's allocation.

 

In the photo album "Steam in Dock Green" by Frank Leigh-Bogus it quite clearly states that before the arrival of the diesels the only non-GNR locos recorded in DG yard were the occasional N7s from Hatfield, as accurately portrayed by my model of 69727. (see photo on page 99 of the album which shows the immaculate N7 on yard pilot duty - as Mr Bogus notes probably running in after overhaul at Stratford).

 

So let's have no more of this foreign loco nonsense.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Chaz. You are assuming an ability to draw. I think I was my art mistresses' most reviled pupil at school. Woodwork was a different matter though.

 

Hmm. When you were/are woodworking did/do you not do quite a bit of measuring and marking out? with a pencil and a rule? I'm not being facetitious - if you can mark out on timber you patently have some drawing skills. And they would transfer to paper, would they not?

 

As an ex-art teacher I was faced many times with the cry "I can't draw". This often meant "I won't draw (because others will laugh)" However I was not "assuming an ability to draw". Merely pointing out that it is a useful skill when designing a model. You can of course just go ahead and make it, but this often means making it more than once - drawing(s) allow the design to be worked out before any material is cut.

 

Will have to a Crompton Type 3 then.....

 

I used to see them in the evenings at WGC as they roared through, double-heading the Cliffe-Uddlestone bulk cement train. I well remember asking the lads who were there before me (this was after school) "Have the six-fivers been through yet?". Over the course of a year I saw a large proportion of the class on this working.

.

[chaz]

I can technically draw with a square and a ruler. I always draw out the buildings I am going to make. I cannot draw freehand with perspective, what I call 'art' as opposed to a technical drawing. Until recently, I struggled with colour tones as well. With practice, I have improved and view the colouring of buildings as art. For example, weathering and brickwork.

 

 

So you can draw! Your art mistress would be proud. Freehand with perspective? You don't need it! (I rarely use it)

 

We had an art mistress at school for a couple of years. I seem to recall we spent rather a lot of time admiring her curves rather than drawing any. Ho Hum - the follies of youth!

[Donw]

I do like the office drawing but somehow through those windows just the bare shapes will probably be all you can make out. Still I rather tend to the 'nice knowing its there' belief.

Don

[3 link]

The art mistresses were in the 50+ age bracket. They expected da Vinci quality drawings and artwork. Rulers were for rapping the knuckles with, not for creating drawings.

 

I must of been one of the lucky one's, being a child of the 60's and what with the popularity of the mini skirt,  I was very attentive to my young art teacher. So much so I could not help dropping my pencil for a crafty look from time to time.  Ahhh, sweet memories........

 

Martyn.

[chaz]

I do like the office drawing but somehow through those windows just the bare shapes will probably be all you can make out. Still I rather tend to the 'nice knowing its there' belief.

Don

 

I fear you are right Don. However if there is more than can be seen at a quick glance then a close look might be rewarded with a little more. But as you say 'nice knowing its there'.

[Simond]

I think that's pretty much Martyn's point, actually...

[3 link]

I think that's pretty much Martyn's point, actually...

 

Chaz,

 

I think Simond was referring to my post regarding the " mini skirt " and your post quoting, " there is more than can be seen at a quick glance then a close look might be rewarded with a little more "  .

 

Martyn.

 

PS,   Perhaps we should get back on topic......

Edited November 23, 2014 by 3 link

[chaz]

Chaz,

 

I think Simond was referring to my post regarding the " mini skirt " and your post quoting, " there is more than can be seen at a quick glance then a close look might be rewarded with a little more "  .

 

Martyn.

 

PS,   Perhaps we should get back on topic......

 

Oh!  darn it - I missed that one!     "Perhaps we should get back on topic"......Yes, perhaps we should.

[chaz]

I made up a lighting unit for the office, a piece of stripboard with two "dial lamps" in MES sockets soldered to it. These are wired in parallel - I found these bulbs to be too dim in series. Here the lights are connected to my bench PSU set at 12V for a quick test. The unit is screwed to a piece of pine that I glued into the back of the ceiling to give something to take fixing screws and is out of sight, behind the panelling above the windows.

 

 

The pair of wires dangling in plain view beyond the office are just temporarily routed - they will be tidied away out of sight later.

 

 

These two photos show that with the interior lights fitted it is obvious that this little building is empty and some detail work is now essential.

 

I like the patches of light on the boarding in front of the windows. Even if I don't put lights under the canopy I will keep these as I like the effect.

 

Chaz
 

Edited November 24, 2014 by chaz