Dock Green

[Simond]

I'll vouch for "intensely hot" - although I don't think this was the exact wording I used - I accidentally put my finger through the flame when trying to flick a set of red hot steel coupling links off the tweezers and into the oil bath to blacken them - I do assure you, I'll try most assiduously not to repeat the experience.

 

I'm sure there is an emoticon for glum face and finger in bandage, but I'll let you imagine it.

 

Best

Simon

[Donw]

I can definitely vouch for the hot flame. When on my plumbing course (BT lead plumbing) using a large propamne torch the sequence is flame on flame off wipe with moleskin and repeat till done. Before getting used to it I found I had drifted to Flame on wipe flame off. It is surprising how long it takes to register the torch is play straight onto the back of your hand. The other pleasure was wiping the wrong way and scraping some molten lead under my thumbnail

 

 Ideal for that sort of job though. Neat work and worth the trouble of setting up the plywood and clamps

 

Don

[chaz]

I'll vouch for "intensely hot" - although I don't think this was the exact wording I used - I accidentally put my finger through the flame when trying to flick a set of red hot steel coupling links off the tweezers and into the oil bath to blacken them - I do assure you, I'll try most assiduously not to repeat the experience.

 

I'm sure there is an emoticon for glum face and finger in bandage, but I'll let you imagine it.

 

Best

Simon

 

OUCH!   Anybody who has ever touched a hot soldering iron bit - that blue flame is a fair bit hotter - don't mess with it! 

[chaz]

It is surprising how long it takes to register the torch is play straight onto the back of your hand. The other pleasure was wiping the wrong way and scraping some molten lead under my thumbnail

 

 Ideal for that sort of job though. Neat work and worth the trouble of setting up the plywood and clamps

 

Don

 

Back of the hand? not so many nerve endings as your finger tips - molten lead under the nail OWWWW! - rather worse than my experience with the hot glue-gun.

 

Not too much trouble "setting up the plywood and clamps" - compared with the hassle of taking the headstocks off, cleaning them up and putting them back in the right place  

 

Incidentally it might be worth pointing out that even with so much heat pouring into the joint none of the previous work came adrift - not even the coupling plates on the headstocks.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I spent this evening adding details to the tube wagon's solebars. My usual 145 solder and liquid flux and the heat provided by a 25W iron - no need for a butane torch for this job. I held the parts in place with a dowel - sharpened to a point (of sorts). Some parts soldered in place without drama - others? well they move out of position, or  twist at strange angles, have to be reheated (and sworn at) and then prodded and cajoled into place with the dowel and a pair of tweezers.

 

 

It's the sort of job that can have you twitching. Eventually it was done and I cleaned up with an old toothbrush, CIF cream and plenty of water.

 

Next? Well maybe the solebars will get soldered in under the floor tomorrow...

 

Chaz

Edited May 4, 2015 by chaz

[chaz]

One unlooked-for bonus of the new cassette handling extension board is that the new wagon cassettes I am planning will not need the brass strips or the electrical wiring and contact pads.

 

 

Remember the old arrangement required the locos of trains leaving the yard to run across two wagon cassettes on their way to the loco cassette. Now locos are uncoupled from their train with the entire train out of sight of the public and then run directly onto the loco cassette.
Any new wagon cassettes will be much cheaper - the brass strip was a significant cost of each cassette - and less work to make. I will need to check that the plain slots in the MDF base are sufficiently accurate to guide wagons on and off the transition.  Another possible change to all of the cassettes is that there is no longer any need for a removeable "dumbell" at the far end - we have had at least one dumbell coming adrift in transit with the risk (so far not realised) of stock rolling out during handling - CRUNCH! With the existing cassettes a couple of small screws will secure the dumbells in place - cutting the risk of an accident by 50%.

 

 

New cassettes can have a fixed dowel from new, no need for the drop in slot, a plain hole will suffice - again less work.

 

Some time soon I will look at the wagons and parcels vans that have not so far had a run on Dock Green with a view to making a few extra cassettes to accomodate them. I will post photos of this stock when I can. I do like wagons and variety is the spice........

 

Oh, hang on, if there is to be a (short) parcels train then the sequence will need to be rewritten....Ho Hum.

 

Chaz

Edited May 5, 2015 by chaz

[2ManySpams]

Soldering...not just me then that finds that parts either get soldered perfectly first time in exactly the right location or steadfastly refuse to sit still in the right place and position. 3 out of 4 brake hangers on my O2 fixed first time...the fourth was a right little #@#@.

[chaz]

Soldering...not just me then that finds that parts either get soldered perfectly first time in exactly the right location or steadfastly refuse to sit still in the right place and position. 3 out of 4 brake hangers on my O2 fixed first time...the fourth was a right little #@#@.

 

No Chris, you are not alone. All sorts of minor disasters await. Yesterday I had positioned a part in exactly the right place, holding it down with the wooden "prodder", sploshed on some flux with my free hand, picked up the iron and then realised that I hadn't cut the tiny of chip of solder ready. Start again and could I achieve that perfect placing? And do you find yourself pressing a little harder until just as your ready to fix the part it pings off into space? On hands and knees to find it - it all takes time and spoils that erroneous vision of myself as a good modeller.

 

And when the damned thing is finally painted and on the track you realise that all the effort you put in to getting each part just so (and succeeding with some of them) doesn't really show anyway.

 

Chaz

[Donw]

I don't quite follow the bit about the cassettes. If you have a fixed dowell at the end I pressuem they can only be used one way round. So the locos must be always pushing the wagons or it would get trapped. Is that right.

 

I know what you mean about all the effort. It is when you are fiddling about attaching some detail and the heat builds up and the main body stars to come apart. You just know it won't go back together quite as well as first time.

 

Don

[N15class]

No Chris, you are not alone. All sorts of minor disasters await. Yesterday I had positioned a part in exactly the right place, holding it down with the wooden "prodder", sploshed on some flux with my free hand, picked up the iron and then realised that I hadn't cut the tiny of chip of solder ready. Start again and could I achieve that perfect placing? And do you find yourself pressing a little harder until just as your ready to fix the part it pings off into space? On hands and knees to find it - it all takes time and spoils that erroneous vision of myself as a good modeller.

 

And when the damned thing is finally painted and on the track you realise that all the effort you put in to getting each part just so (and succeeding with some of them) doesn't really show anyway.

 

Chaz

 

It is always suprising how many bits do not show after a lot of effort to get them right. I am scratch building inside motion for a LSWR G6 as experiment. Looking at the plans the other day I realised you may just see the front of the slide bars.

 

Anyway the layout is looking better all the time. Maybe one day I will be in the right country at the right time to see it.

[chaz]

I don't quite follow the bit about the cassettes. If you have a fixed dowell at the end I pressuem they can only be used one way round. So the locos must be always pushing the wagons or it would get trapped. Is that right.

 

I know what you mean about all the effort. It is when you are fiddling about attaching some detail and the heat builds up and the main body stars to come apart. You just know it won't go back together quite as well as first time.

 

Don

 

The cassettes are always used one way round. Imagine a train leaving the yard. It runs onto a length of track hidden behind a retaining wall and is stopped. The loco is uncoupled and driven forward onto its cassette. This cassette is removed and replaced with an empty wagon cassette. The train is uncoupled so that it is divided into two parts. The first part (four wagons) is wheeled onto the empty cassette. This is then replaced by another empty one which is filled with the remaining three wagons and the brake van. Trust me, it works fine! Because only the left hand end (seen by the operator) is offered up to the transition the dumbell in the right hand end can be fixed.

 

"It is when you are fiddling about attaching some detail and the heat builds up and the main body stars to come apart. You just know it won't go back together quite as well as first time."

 

Well that would be frustrating but I have to say it has rarely happened to me. It's really quite difficult to dismantle a brass kit with a soldering iron, you just can't enough heat in - a plumber's torch is usually needed.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Continuing the theme of holding parts accurately in place while soldering...

I cut a couple of small rectangles of plywood and cramped these to the underside of the floor, positioned so that the solebars sit against them in the right position. The kit has dotted lines etched into the underside of the floor to show where the inner edge should be - you can see the line for the other solebar in the photo.

It's worth taking time over this fiddly job so that the solebars are correctly placed - at least the adjustment is done before any heat is applied. If you do start putting G-cramps on your models be careful - dropping it on the floor with all that extra weight attached is likely to bend or distort something.

A couple of bits of thick card under the cramps inside the wagon body protect the brass floor.

I worked along the length of the solebar, pressing it against the plywood while I soldered the brackets and tabs to the floor. Any excess solder was drawn along the edge of the solebar's top flange so that it strengthened the joint, rather than being scraped off later. I also put a solder fillet on the inside where the solebar meets the headstock.

I used my 25 watt iron for this work. It was fine providing it was held with the flat part of the bit firmly against the brass floor to aid the heat transfer. I prefer a smaller iron if it will do the job for ease of handling.

Here's the view that matters, from an angle that the wagon will present when on the track.

So far, so good. As with the other Connoisseur kits that I have put together Jim McGeown has made a very good job of this one. Everything fits as it should and there are plenty of spares of some of the smaller etched parts.

Chaz

[chaz]

One thing that Jim doesn't mention in his instructions is that the two solebars are not identical. The bolt heads that represent the fixings for the V hangers for the brakes are different - there are two V hangers on one side and only one on the other. Why does it matter? Well there are half-etched marks on the underside of the floor to help with the placing of the brake parts and if you swap the solebars they no longer work. There's a 50% chance of getting this right if you don't work this out in advance. Errr....erm....

This is the moment when I realised I had made a mistake...

 

 

...as I lined up this V hanger with the marks on the floor these etched bolts didn't match up as they should. Unusual for a Connoisseur kit? Yes, and a sign that I've goofed. However I can line up the V hangers with the etched bolt heads and the other brake parts can be positioned by taking dimensions off the half-etched marks with a pair of dividers and switching them round to the other side. The half-etched marks for the axle centre-lines and white-metal W irons and axleboxes are, of course, symmetrical and form a useful datum for this marking out.

Here are some the brake parts soldered in place, having sorted out the positions to suit the swapped solebars.

 

 

A fair amount of progress today, as well as the brake parts I have soldered up the sockets which on the prototype supported the removeable centre stanchions, the axlebox stops and the angled springs which project at an angle from the bottom edge and stop the hinged sides from swinging down too far and smashing into the brake gear etc.

 

 

Last snap is a close up showing the axlebox stops (four) and the angled springs (eight of those).

 

 

They look quite fiddly to put on but in fact they were such a good fit - for instance when the axlebox stops were folded up they popped neatly into half-etched sockets and could be held in place with a cocktail stick while they were soldered.

I am aware that the soldering looks a bit untidy but most of it will be out of sight when the wagon is on the track and much of it is a thin film which paint will cover. A few lumps will need attention before the paint goes on.

 

Chaz

Edited May 6, 2015 by chaz

[N15class]

Paint always sticks better to solder than brass. I never worry about solder as long a it is not lumpy.

 

It is looking good.

Edited May 6, 2015 by N15class

[chaz]

With some good weather promised I am off out with the Nikon today, hunting for butterflies to snap. Progress with the tube wagon may be on hold but a couple of hours this evening should be possible - after I have carried out my civic duty.......

[chaz]

As I am trying to do a bit of work on the tube wagon every day here's todays progress...

First I soldered on the brake lever guides and brake levers.

 

 

No easy way to hold the brake lever guides in place so I held them in place with a finger and worked quickly. As I was holding the front of the loop and soldering the back (to the bottom edge of the solebar first) I didn't actually burn my finger! Once fixed by that joint the other, to the upper edge of the solebar, can be soldered.

 

Preparing the buffers

 

I don't like white-metal buffer rams. They are too fragile IMHO - certainly since Dock Green has "been on the road" I have had a couple snap off. So on this wagon I decided to replace them with steel rams. I think the ones I am using are Parkside ones, discarded by a friend who replaces the buffers in his  kits with metal-housing types.
The white-metal buffer housings need drilling. First step was to put a 1.8mm drill in a pin chuck and give it a twirl or two in the outer end. This puts a "centre" indent in the bottom of the blind hole. You can't rely on the drill finding the centre of the hole as cast - the bottom of the hole is likely to be very uneven.

Then I put the housing in a machine vice and drilled a 1.3mm hole right through with the pillar drill.

 

 

I use white spirit as a lubricant, splosh it into the hole with a brush. Without a lubricant you risk the the drill "snatching" in the white-metal. Once this hole is drilled right through the outer part of the hole can be opened out to 1.8mm to accommodate the spring. I don't do this in the machine but with the drill in a pin chuck. It would be too easy to drill right through and we need the shouldered hole to make the spring work. I find it doesn't take long to open the hole out to sufficient depth. My kit has six buffer housings in the bag of castings so I could afford to mess up a couple - I didn't. But if there had only been four....

 

 

Here are the four buffers assembled. For comparison on the left is one of the white-metal rams which I am discarding.
And the spring action....

 

 

 

 

Chaz

Edited May 8, 2015 by chaz

[Simond]

Nice job Chaz,

 

But you know, I don't think it's fair to provide un-drilled buffer stocks in a kit.

Many modellers don't have the skills, inclination or tools to drill them as you have done.

 

I know there are lots of options, and I know that providing them ready-drilled would up the costs. But...

 

Best

Simon

[chaz]

Nice job Chaz,

 

But you know, I don't think it's fair to provide un-drilled buffer stocks in a kit.

Many modellers don't have the skills, inclination or tools to drill them as you have done.

 

I know there are lots of options, and I know that providing them ready-drilled would up the costs. But...

 

Best

Simon

 

Hmm, Simon, I'm not sure I can agree. Personally I don't think it unreasonable to expect somebody who takes on an etched-brass kit to be able to drill out the buffer housings. You can't escape the need for some tools and skills when making such kits - but both tools and skills can be acquired!

 

As you say there are lots of options - you could just buy some replacement buffers but that is to miss the point. Etched-brass kits are, by their nature, more challenging than those in moulded plastic and require a different attitude.

 

And I suppose some might have to accept that etched-brass kits are not for them.

 

Chaz

[Donw]

If you are going to replace the rams and dont have a pal with spares it may be easier just to replace them . I try to keep a few Haywood ones in stock. As I am not able to go the the Alsrm show at reading I cannot top up my stock.

Don

[Simond]

I don't know.

 

I did reflect when writing the post, as I'm quite happy (if not as capable as some in this august forum) to machine, drill, grind, solder, cut, form, fold, braze & cut, but, I think if you buy a kit it shouldn't require manufacture of the parts.

 

Etched kits without wheels are common. I think it might be more appropriate to supply etchings without part-made castings, etc.

 

I guess it fundamentally doesn't matter as long as it is clear in the kit contents what you get & what you don't get.

 

Best

Simon

[chaz]

I don't know.

 

I did reflect when writing the post, as I'm quite happy (if not as capable as some in this august forum) to machine, drill, grind, solder, cut, form, fold, braze & cut, but, I think if you buy a kit it shouldn't require manufacture of the parts.

 

Etched kits without wheels are common. I think it might be more appropriate to supply etchings without part-made castings, etc.

 

I guess it fundamentally doesn't matter as long as it is clear in the kit contents what you get & what you don't get.

 

Best

Simon

 

I hope my comments didn't come across as too dogmatic? My skills (such as they are) have been developed by "having a go" at kits. My methods, often the result of trial and error and of finding work-arounds, work for me, but I don't claim they are the only way.

 

"I guess it fundamentally doesn't matter as long as it is clear in the kit contents what you get & what you don't get."   I agree with that. Jim's instructions have the note "Requires 3' 1" 3 hole disc wheels to complete (Slaters cat no 7122)" boldly on the front. Everything else you need to make the model is in the bag, but if you want to replace some of the parts (like the white-metal buffer rams) you are quite free to.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

If you are going to replace the rams and dont have a pal with spares it may be easier just to replace them . I try to keep a few Haywood ones in stock. As I am not able to go the the Alsrm show at reading I cannot top up my stock.

Don

 

Quite so, Don. It is certainly easier to buy replacements and the Haywood buffers are excellent. But if you can do it it is satisfying to use the parts provided.

 

Chaz

[Simond]

Chaz

 

I don't think you were dogmatic at all. I think we all learned (and hopefully continue to learn) through a combination of school metalwork, Dad's workbench, books, magazine articles and trial & error, and of course from our peers, either in clubs, or on RMWeb.

 

In this case, I would not struggle, I have a couple of lathes & a milling machine, but I could imagine someone summoning the courage to buy their first etched kit, perhaps not having the immense collection of tools that some of us amass over the years, and being much frustrated to discover they needed yet more equipment and more new skills.

 

I suppose they'd have a go and if they succeed, grin broadly, and if not, consign the bits to the scrap pile and buy a set of Haywoods'...

 

I do agree that white metal buffer rams are not a fat lot of use. I'm not much keen on those made from drawing pins either.

 

Best

Simon

[chaz]

Chaz

 

I don't think you were dogmatic at all. I think we all learned (and hopefully continue to learn) through a combination of school metalwork, Dad's workbench, books, magazine articles and trial & error, and of course from our peers, either in clubs, or on RMWeb.

 

In this case, I would not struggle, I have a couple of lathes & a milling machine, but I could imagine someone summoning the courage to buy their first etched kit, perhaps not having the immense collection of tools that some of us amass over the years, and being much frustrated to discover they needed yet more equipment and more new skills.

 

I suppose they'd have a go and if they succeed, grin broadly, and if not, consign the bits to the scrap pile and buy a set of Haywoods'...

 

I do agree that white metal buffer rams are not a fat lot of use. I'm not much keen on those made from drawing pins either.

 

Best

Simon

 

I think back to my first etched brass kit. A leap in the dark as, against received wisdom, I started with a locomotive. This was fifteen years or more ago and there was no O gauge RTR so I reasoned that if I couldn't build a loco' then 7mm wasn't for me. Fortunately for me I chose one of Jim's Connoisseur kits. I bought it from him at a show and a chat with him was most reassuring. He explained that there were only a couple of tricky bits in the kit which he gave me some tips on, the rest should be straight-forward. He also offered to help with advice should I get stuck.

 

 

This must be a very early photo as it still has 3 link couplings - they do look nice but are a pain in service.

 

I did buy a few tools during that build (nothing too expensive, as I recall) and certainly learnt a lot. I am proud of the result, which still runs on Dock Green, although I did rebuild its chassis, changing the original rigid layout for one with sprung hornblocks.

Edited May 10, 2015 by chaz

[chaz]

Here's short video shot with a Headcam at the Eastleigh show in January. I mounted the camera on my Lowfit with a stripwood cradle and propelled it around the layout.
You will have to excuse the distortion produced by the extreme wide angle of the lens - I would have preferred to use my Lumix compact to get the videos but some of the clearances on Dock Green are too tight to allow that.  Excuse also  the background - which includes rather too many views of the bearded oaf clutching the DCC handset.

 

http://youtu.be/GqiK9dV34WA

 

I do have more of this stuff, just click "like" if you'd like to see it.

Chaz