Dock Green

[Father Dougal]

I think there might be some interest in the methods I am using to make up this kit. If you want me to continue posting this step-by-step detailed account please click a "Like" - that will encourage me to continue posting.Before I proceed I must just say that the following methods are the ones I am using; there will be many alternative ways of doing stuff which will work fine and if you want to post details of these in this topic please feel free to do so. Some of my techniques rely on the use of particular tools. I have been making models on and off since I was a kid and over time have assembled a large number of tools, some of which I use a lot, some of which are used so seldom that they are often the subject of extensive searches when I want them. :sarcastichand:You don't need to use all the same tools - there are often work-arounds - but (obviously) you won't be able to put an etched brass kit with no tools at all. :jester:I left the kit yesterday with part #1 prepared and ready for folding up. This can be quite a daunting job and needs some care as the side folds are long but here we go....I have some folding bars which I made up a while ago. These are normally aligned with a couple of mild-steel rivets but as you can see I have removed these as the fold is longer than the space between them.I do think this folding job is much easier if you have a good bench mounted vice to hold everything securely, but a Workmate would do the job.When you fold metal it is often better to hold the smaller side of the fold. A close-up...The white strip between the steel folding bar and the brass is a piece of thick card. This will give the rivets that I earlier pressed out somewhere to go when the vice is tightened. Without the card the folding bars will crush them flat. Also note that the whole width of the half-etch for the fold is visible - just.I choose a length of pine longer than the fold. I hold this firmly against the brass making sure that it is in contact for its whole length......and, keeping a firm grip,  roll it over towards me.......until the brass is horizontal. When I made the folding bars I milled the top to an angle so the sheet being bent can be taken a little past a right angle. When the material springs back slightly (which it usually does) the result is a right angle.Here I am peeling the card away from the rivets, which have been driven into the surface.The rivets are undamaged, the card has done its job.Before moving on I check the bend along its length with an engineer's square.Any small errors can be adjusted out with the fingers. If it's way off I would put it back in the bars to correct the angle.The second side is done using the same techniques. Just be aware of where that first side is going - if it clatters into the vice as you form the second fold it might be distorted.This next photo shows the first two bends made and adjusted.It's obvious that the folding bars are going to be no use on the ends. Here's how I get round that problem...I cut two blocks of pine which will fit between the sides. An exact fit is not necessary - in fact a good working clearance is better. I use the blocks like the folding bars held tightly together with a G-cramp and with a piece of card in there to protect the rivets again. It is important to do the cramp up tight, we only want the brass to bend on the fold line, not along the etched plank lines. I hold the wood blocks and roll the floor of the model up using the pine piece as before. Be careful - if you drop the work the weight of the G-cramp is quite likely to do damage.On this model the sides overlap the ends as you can see - a second piece of brass fits between these to give the top edge a convincing thickness. But the fit is a good one - as I would expect from one of Jim's kits.And here's the result, ready to solder up.As I said above click on "like" if you want me to continue posting this detailed account of the build. Providing there is not complete indifference I will do so. I do realise that most of you are not going to want to make up this Connoisseur kit, but I suggest some of the techniques will be useful for other projects. Chaz

 

Nice work Chaz. I plan to build a few pipe kits at some point. First I need to build Nellie- a nice present from Mrs Doyle.

D

[chaz]

Nice work Chaz. I plan to build a few pipe kits at some point. First I need to build Nellie- a nice present from Mrs Doyle.

D

 

Thanks. I think the pipe wagon is a shorter version of the tube job. You don't think I overdid the photo detail in that post do you?

[brianthesnail96]

At some point this year I am going to learn to build brass kits, and will most likely start with a Connoisseur wagon- from the reputation Jim's kits have it would seem a sensible starting point.

So, yes please to the step by step account from me, I think I'd find it very useful indeed (not least for working out tools and techniques). Watching with interest

[puddlejumper]

Thanks. I think the pipe wagon is a shorter version of the tube job. You don't think I overdid the photo detail in that post do you?

No the pics are really helpful for describing the process, enjoying your work mate

[chaz]

At some point this year I am going to learn to build brass kits, and will most likely start with a Connoisseur wagon- from the reputation Jim's kits have it would seem a sensible starting point.

 

So, yes please to the step by step account from me, I think I'd find it very useful indeed (not least for working out tools and techniques). Watching with interest

 

Thanks Brian. I can endorse Jim's kits - I have built several, including two locomotives, and have yet to find a dud.

 

I should have said that I don't mean to imply that Jim's instructions are poor - they aren't. He usually includes some isometric sketches sufficient to see how everything fits together and includes a list suggesting the order in which to do the build. You may already be familiar with his "Skill Builder Kits". These include much more detailed instructions and are a very good idea for a beginner.

 

Chaz

Edited December 26, 2014 by chaz

[2ManySpams]

Totally agree Chaz, Jim's skill builder kits are great for learning and, errr, building skills.

 

I learnt a lot putting this brake van together:

 

 

Heartily recommended.

 

 

Edit: and I must add that I'm no time-served kit builder. Until a year ago I only ever picked up a soldering iron to join wires and very rarely metal bits. I had well and truly convinced myself that I couldn't do a whole kit.

 

Biggest change was getting a more powerful soldering iron (25w just wasn't enough for the mass of metal in 7mm kits). I would also recommend just giving it a go. Yes, early efforts aren't great and take a while to clean up but the skills build with time. I wish I'd bitten the bullet years ago.

[chaz]

Totally agree Chaz, Jim's skill builder kits are great for learning and, errr, building skills.

 

I learnt a lot putting this brake van together:

 

rps20141226_224634.jpg

 

Heartily recommended.

 

That's a tidy build Chris, your first go in brass?

 

I see by your footnote that your are going to build one of Jim's O2 kits. Not one I have built but I might have been tempted to do one as an IOW loco, if I didn't have so many other projects on the go. I have fond memories of childhood holidays on "The Island" and hoping for the elusive (to me) "Chale". I eventually saw it at Ventnor - happy days!

 

Chaz

[Donw]

Chaz

Where there is etched planking I find a few passes with a standly knife along the fold line deepens the cut a little and helps to ensure it bends in the right place. I also tend to use a hold and fold for bends these days.

Don

[2ManySpams]

That's a tidy build Chris, your first go in brass?

 

I see by your footnote that your are going to build one of Jim's O2 kits. Not one I have built but I might have been tempted to do one as an IOW loco, if I didn't have so many other projects on the go. I have fond memories of childhood holidays on "The Island" and hoping for the elusive (to me) "Chale". I eventually saw it at Ventnor - happy days!

 

Chaz

Thanks Chaz. The brake was a joint first brass kit along with a WEP clay wagon. I started the clay, completed the brake and then finished the clay. Both taught me there's nothing to be scared of from having a go at a brass kit (or two).

 

 

They were both well thought out and accurately etched kits. The clay was a challenge as it involved building up multiple layers of brass.

 

The confidence has taken a bit of a battering tackling my first metal loco kit. The problem hasn't been the soldering though but overcoming ill fitting, inaccurate and poor quality parts. The other challenge has been forming some of the more complex shapes prior to soldering. I'm having a timeout with it at the moment but here's the current state of my Agenoria 1366 tank.

 

 

The mojo is returning on the 1366...but I may start the 02...it would be rude not to!

 

Sorry for the hijack but the message to Brianthesnail is to give it a go...he may well be quite surprised how easy it is to pick up.

[chaz]

Chaz

Where there is etched planking I find a few passes with a standly knife along the fold line deepens the cut a little and helps to ensure it bends in the right place. I also tend to use a hold and fold for bends these days.

Don

 

That will work Don, but as you can see from my snaps it isn't necessary - provided the plank lines are held flat so that they can't even think about bending.....

[chaz]

Thanks Chaz. The brake was a joint first brass kit along with a WEP clay wagon. I started the clay, completed the brake and then finished the clay. Both taught me there's nothing to be scared of from having a go at a brass kit (or two).

 

rps20141207_222138.jpg

 

They were both well thought out and accurately etched kits. The clay was a challenge as it involved building up multiple layers of brass.

 

The confidence has taken a bit of a battering tackling my first metal loco kit. The problem hasn't been the soldering though but overcoming ill fitting, inaccurate and poor quality parts. The other challenge has been forming some of the more complex shapes prior to soldering. I'm having a timeout with it at the moment but here's the current state of my Agenoria 1366 tank.

 

rps20141207_195517.jpg

 

The mojo is returning on the 1366...but I may start the 02...it would be rude not to!

 

Sorry for the hijack but the message to Brianthesnail is to give it a go...he may well be quite surprised how easy it is to pick up.

 

Oh, yes the 1366..... I had forgotten that!  I have built kits myself which were badly designed or poorly drawn (often both). The one good thing you can say for a poor kit is that it might be the gateway to scratchbuilding.....

In my naivete I chose kits because I wanted particular locos - not always the best policy, but one gets them done - eventually.

 

Chaz

[Guest Isambarduk]

"... a poor kit is that it might be the gateway to scratchbuilding ....."

 

A man after my own heart, Chaz! 

 

I treat all kits as an aid to scratch-building but some kits provide more aid than others :-)  To me, kits (and RTR for that matter) are just a source of parts - along with screws, nuts, wire, sheet, etc. - that I use to build a model in my own way; it may not be the best, and it certainly won't be the quickest, but it satisfies me the most (which is what matters, really).  David

[brianthesnail96]

Cheers folks. I was hoping to progress along a similar path to Chris, probably starting with one of Jim's Lowmacs before tackling a brake van. Ultimately I'd like to tackle an Agenoria industrial or two, I believe the older kits are a bit easier so hopefully I'll be a slightly shallower learning curve than Chris' one with the Pannier- but it'll be a while before we get there anyway.

 

Thanks for the offer of the step by step build blog Chaz, and for the words of encouragement from all sides

[2ManySpams]

Cheers folks. I was hoping to progress along a similar path to Chris, probably starting with one of Jim's Lowmacs before tackling a brake van. Ultimately I'd like to tackle an Agenoria industrial or two, I believe the older kits are a bit easier so hopefully I'll be a slightly shallower learning curve than Chris' one with the Pannier- but it'll be a while before we get there anyway.

 

Thanks for the offer of the step by step build blog Chaz, and for the words of encouragement from all sides

A few folk have started with the connoisseur lowmac and there's quite a few build threads on here. Having seen them I'm not sure it's the easiest starting point. I'd definitely get a few brass wagon kits out of the way before contemplating a loco. I'd then be very careful and ask advice first on people's thoughts on the ease of build.

[2ManySpams]

"... a poor kit is that it might be the gateway to scratchbuilding ....."

 

A man after my own heart, Chaz! 

 

I treat all kits as an aid to scratch-building but some kits provide more aid than others :-)  To me, kits (and RTR for that matter) are just a source of parts - along with screws, nuts, wire, sheet, etc. - that I use to build a model in my own way; it may not be the best, and it certainly won't be the quickest, but it satisfies me the most (which is what matters, really).  David

It wouldn't be too bad if poor kits were priced accordingly, particularly if half the bits end in the bin. For particularly poor castings it would be better not to include them, lower the price and provide a pick list of other producer's parts.

[chaz]

Continuing with the tube wagon....

 

First a note about removing parts from brass frets - In the instructions Jim recommends that you use a Stanley knife to cut through the tags. This does work but I have never been much of a fan as it is all too easy to cause distortion of the parts. I prefer to use a piercing saw. It takes a little longer but time may be saved by not having to flatten bent bits.....

 

 

Here I am cutting some small parts from one of the solebars. I put the fret on a piercing saw table (nothing grand just a piece of thick ply' with a slot cut in it and fixed firmly to the bench) with a piece of card immediately under the brass. Even with a 80TPI blade fitted the saw may well snag, especially when cutting through a half-etched tags. Tilting the saw as in the photo will increase the number of teeth in contact with the work and help prevent snagging. As always a very light touch is needed if you are not to get through a lot of blades. I hold the fret down firmly close to where the blade is cutting, with a finger each side of the cut line if possible.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Small parts can be folded in a pair of pliers.

 

 

The action is much like that above, with the pliers doing the job of the folding bars and a small wood block being used to push the work to a right angle. I use a pair of parallel pliers....

 

 

....as the name implies the jaws stay parallel as you open and close them, giving an excellent, even grip. These were made by Maun Industries and are one of my favourite tools.

 

Chaz

Edited December 27, 2014 by chaz

[chaz]

Chaz, look at what the new Finescale Railway Modelling Review are doing with their construction articles; plenty of photos supported by text.

I shall be interested to see how you resolve the 'problem' of the wheels becoming retained in the construction and the desire when painting of having them removable.

 

Haven't seen that mag' yet, am considering subscribing but I want to see an issue first.

 

I have never had a problem with wheels and paint in a wagon, but you will have to wait until it gets wheeled into the "paint shop".

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Cheers folks. I was hoping to progress along a similar path to Chris, probably starting with one of Jim's Lowmacs before tackling a brake van. Ultimately I'd like to tackle an Agenoria industrial or two, I believe the older kits are a bit easier so hopefully I'll be a slightly shallower learning curve than Chris' one with the Pannier- but it'll be a while before we get there anyway.

 

Thanks for the offer of the step by step build blog Chaz, and for the words of encouragement from all sides

 

The Connoisseur Lowmac is a good kit and makes up nicely, but then the same could be said of all of Jim's wagon kits that I have built. The earlier Agenoria kits are a joy to build - my Peckett 0-4-0ST is one of these. Unfortunately after the range changed hands the quality seems to have dropped a notch or two.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

A few folk have started with the connoisseur lowmac and there's quite a few build threads on here. Having seen them I'm not sure it's the easiest starting point. I'd definitely get a few brass wagon kits out of the way before contemplating a loco. I'd then be very careful and ask advice first on people's thoughts on the ease of build.

 

Lowmac - Provided care is taken when folding the main part - which is the floor including the end ramps and the headstocks (buffer beams) - the kit goes together well. I think the trick is to use folding bars and take your time, testing each bend by offering it up to the side pieces to get the angle right. The sides are half-etched with a slot into which the folded floor sits. I found that mine almost clicked into place, the fit was so good, and stayed there nicely while they were soldered, with very little holding needed.

 

 

Hope that helps.

 

Chaz

Edited December 27, 2014 by chaz

[brianthesnail96]

Seem to be clicking the ratings icons a lot here, but all justified

 

A variation on the Lowmac theme would be the most useful to me of the "skill builder" range

[chaz]

Now for a tricky bit, or so it can seem - folding up the solebars.

 

As with the body you need folding bars which are at least as long as the fold. Place the job in the bars with the etched line fully visible, just on the top of the bars.

 

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It takes a fair amount of force to form a bend this long but it will go using the length of wood again, pushed firmly against the brass. Don't be tempted to resort to a hammer or mallet - these will give you little control and might cause dents and distortion.

 

 

If your folding bars project out on both sides of the vice jaws as in my photo you will need to pinch the ends tight, either with screws or G cramps. The BMS is flexible enough to allow a gap to open as you force the bend, so that the brass is not gripped tightly.

]

Attempting to form the second bend I became aware of a problem caused by the thickness of my folding bars.

 

 

It would be impossible to form the second bend to a right-angle. So I got out the big bastard file (which I rarely use) and filed a bevel on the offending edge.

 

 

I wish I had done this years ago, I resorted to any number of work-arounds when this modification has made the folding job easier. If I still had access to a milling machine I would take rather more of that shoulder away.

 

 

I check the folded part for any twisting, ripples in the edges etc. Small defects can eliminated with the parallel pliers.

 

Chaz

Edited December 28, 2014 by chaz

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Now for a tricky bit, or so it can seem - folding up the solebars.

 

As with the body you need folding bars which are at least as long as the fold. Place the job in the bars with the etched line fully visible, just on the top of the bars.

 

 

If your folding bars project out on both sides of the vice jaws as in my photo you will need to pinch the ends tight, either with screws or G cramps. The BMS is flexible enough to allow a gap to open as you force the bend, so that the brass is not gripped tightly.

 

 

It takes a fair amount of force to form a bend this long but it will go using the length of wood again, pushed firmly against the brass. Don't be tempted to resort to a hammer or mallet - these will give you little control and will cause dents and distortion.

 

Attempting to form the second bend I became aware of a problem caused by the thickness of my folding bars.....

 

 

It would be impossible to form the second bend to a right-angle. So I got out the big bastard file which I rarely use and filed a bevel on the offending edge.

 

 

I wish I had done this years ago, I resorted to any number of work-arounds when this modification has made the folding job easier. If I still had access to a milling machine I would take rather more of that shoulder away.

 

 

Chaz

Hi Chaz,

 

I can now see that it is not only me that these things happen too - I dont always refer to a coarse cut file in such a way, but the bast@rd folding bars I sometimes do 

 

I like your solution though!

 

We knocked ours up from some spare flat steel etc. yet a nice hold and fold tool may be helpful at sometime in the future too.

 

Keep up the good work on your enjoyable Thread.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

Edited December 28, 2014 by CME and Bottlewasher

[chaz]

Hi Chaz,

 

I can now see that it is not only me that these things happen too - I dont always refer to a coarse cut file in such a way, but the bast@rd folding bars I sometimes do 

 

I like your solution though!

 

We knocked ours up from some spare flat steel etc. yet a nice hold and fold tool may be helpful at sometime in the future too.

 

Keep up the good work on your enjoyable Thread.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

 

You are quite right to point out my error - I should have called it an eight inch bastard.

 

 

I used to shock and amuse (in about equal numbers) the children in my workshop when I was teaching Design Technology and referred to bastard files, screws, knobs etc. A deadpan delivery got the best result.

 

Chaz

Edited December 28, 2014 by chaz

[CME and Bottlewasher]

 

You are quite right to point out my error - I should have called it an eight inch bastard.

 

 

I used to shock and amuse (in about equal numbers) the children in my workshop when I was teaching Design Technology and referred to bastard files, screws, knobs etc. A deadpan delivery got the best result.

 

Chaz

When I worked for an engineering company, the names of tools have always been a source of hilarity, especially on a slow day!

Edited December 29, 2014 by CME and Bottlewasher

[chaz]

A note on some of the white-metal parts.

 

 

Top centre are the brake pipes which are fine, but I may replace these with the brass ones to the left as I have found white-metal for these parts to be vulnerable to damage. On the right are two axleguards. The lower one is as supplied and at first sight looks poor. However the flash that fills the gaps is very thin and is easily removed with a scalpel, but do be careful (watch out for those fingers). I found six buffer housings in the bag of bits - the spares will be useful in case of disasters when I drill them out. The buffer rams supplied are white-metal and I will replace these with the steel ones (Hayward parts) shown bottom left. Cast buffer heads are not a good idea on an exhibition layout.

 

Chaz