Barnaby Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) ATMOSPHERE my minds eye sees it all, thank you people. Code breaker for Chaz: Being of a certain vintage, old enough to remember the soft plop of the street gas lamps turning on with all the talk about oil lamps flickering and working amid the gloom just brought back some memories. Edited October 14, 2014 by Barnaby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 ATMOSPHERE my minds eye sees it all, thank you people. Code breaker for Chaz: Being of a certain vintage, old enough to remember the soft plop of the street gas lamps turning on with all the talk about oil lamps flickering and working amid the gloom just brought back some memories. Ah, yes, fair enough. I have a memory of being led round Ridley Road street market (just above the triangle at Dalston Junction) on a winter's evening, when I was a nipper. Light rain in the dark and the stalls lit by a mixture of parafin lamps and some electric lamps (plugged in where?). Now that is atmosphere. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) You have to be brave.... ....sploshing on a grime mix on the top of my English Electric type 1 doesn't look much of an improvement. Cleaning it off again took about ten double-ended cotton buds but the effect justified the effort.... ...revealing the detail as it does and looking more realistic for a not long in service loco. I should add that the exhaust "mess" was done some time ago and had hardened off well, so the white spirit on the cotton-buds had little effect on it. Edited October 15, 2014 by chaz 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) D8025 is ready for action at Wimborne this coming Sunday. It's a bit too big to be the yard pilot so it will be seen coming and going as train engine for some of the trip freights which are a (far too) regular feature of the layout. The long green bonnet has been dry-brushed with my favourite grime mix to reveal the detail. I added a bit of dry-brushing to the roof as well to augment the "sploshed on - cleaned off" ingrained grime. The footplate, the bottom of the side panels and the fuel tanks have some diesel spills - done with Metalcote 27004 - gunmetal (polished when dry) and some gloss black. I also toned down the red buffer beams and left some oily grime around the various fittings. My justification for weathering? - not only does it make the model look far more realistic (don't forget that the early green diesels often shared the same sheds as steam) but it also makes detail work stand out more. I wanted this engine to look fairly new (so no rust) but has done enough work to get a bit dirty. Judge for yourself if I have succeeded. Chaz Edited October 15, 2014 by chaz 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 D8025 is ready for action at Wimborne this coming Sunday. It's a bit too big to be the yard pilot so it will be seen coming and going as train engine for some of the trip freights which are a (far too) regular feature of the layout. The long green bonnet has been dry-brushed with my favourite grime mix to reveal the detail. I added a bit of dry-brushing to the roof as well to augment the "sploshed on - cleaned off" ingrained grime. The footplate, the bottom of the side panels and the fuel tanks have some diesel spills - done with Metalcote 27004 - gunmetal (polished when dry) and some gloss black. I also toned down the red buffer beams and left some oily grime around the various fittings. My justification for weathering? - not only does it make the model look far more realistic (don't forget that the early green diesels often shared the same sheds as steam) but it also makes detail work stand out more. I wanted this engine to look fairly new (so no rust) but has done enough work to get a bit dirty. Judge for yourself if I have succeeded. Chaz A very nice job Chaz, I think it is harder to produce a lightly or moderately weathered loco than a very dirty specimen. There is a lot to be said for subtlety understatement. At some stage, I must gird up the loins, stiffen the sinews and get down to weathering my Heljan Western. Regards, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 A very nice job Chaz, I think it is harder to produce a lightly or moderately weathered loco than a very dirty specimen. There is a lot to be said for subtlety understatement. At some stage, I must gird up the loins, stiffen the sinews and get down to weathering my Heljan Western. Regards, Chris "I think it is harder to produce a lightly or moderately weathered loco than a very dirty specimen." You are quite right Chris. Even in the somewhat elastic time period portrayed by Dock Green D8025 would have been quite a new machine, certainly not old enough to start losing its paint as these locos did later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 The Dingham couplings that I have fitted into the Ixion Fowler had to have their shanks thinned down a little to fit, which meant that they could be made a snug fit and easy to secure with CA. Job done! So for Wimborne I now have three industrials to work the estate lines - rather a change from Warley when the forced retirement of my Peckett "Susan" left me without a suitable industrial and we were forced to "hire" the J52 saddle-tank from BR. I will be ringing the changes during the day, the trainspotters amongst you should have your pencils sharpened.... Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) The camera supposedly never lies but it can show up your efforts as being less than perfect.... When I looked at this photo of D8025 I realised that I hadn't painted the the bars supporting the mesh above the fan very well. Ten minutes with a fine brush and the usual grime mix put that right, and I didn't even have to take the loco out of its cassette. The poor painting was the sort of defect that would stick out like a sore thumb if it had been left. Edited October 16, 2014 by chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I think it looks really good - very believable, and for me, that's the key. I remember showing my determinedly "not interested in Dad's toy trains" teenage son a picture of a "train in scenery" in MRJ - only when he grunted did I point out that it was a 2mm scale model - that's the effect I'd like to achieve... one day... soon? the camera is a brutal tool on models - every little mistake, detail, whatever... worth doing tho' enjoy the show! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I think it looks really good - very believable, and for me, that's the key. I remember showing my determinedly "not interested in Dad's toy trains" teenage son a picture of a "train in scenery" in MRJ - only when he grunted did I point out that it was a 2mm scale model - that's the effect I'd like to achieve... one day... soon? the camera is a brutal tool on models - every little mistake, detail, whatever... worth doing tho' enjoy the show! Simon "I think it looks really good - very believable, and for me, that's the key." Thanks, Simon. I think weathering transforms most models. "the camera is a brutal tool on models - every little mistake, detail, whatever... worth doing tho' " Yes indeed. It can be a useful tool if you want to check what you have done. When I was at Art College (same year as Mr Flintstone) we used to use a mirror to look at our work - gave you a fresh eye - exactly like a digital camera does. "enjoy the show!" Thanks. I'm sure I will Simon. Shows are my only chance to play trains on Dock Green so enjoyment is guaranteed! Chaz Edited October 16, 2014 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) I should have said that the haze of brake dust covering the bogies etc (in fact everything below the footplate) on my English Electric type 1 was put on some time ago. It's the only airbrushing on this model. I hope it's not too controversial to say that airbrushes are often overused when weathering. They are really good at adding hazes and thin overall coatings but many effects are better done with brushes, cotton-buds etc. Just as it's necessary to avoid brush marks when painting models one should also avoid that very obvious "airbrush effect". Reality gets dirty, it doesn't get airbrushed. Chaz Edited October 17, 2014 by chaz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I should have said that the haze of brake dust covering the bogies etc (in fact everything below the footplate) on my English Electric type 1 was put on some time ago. It's the only airbrushing on this model. I hope it's not too controversial to say that airbrushes are often overused when weathering. They are really good at adding hazes and thin overall coatings but many effects are better done with brushes, cotton-buds etc. Just as it's necessary to avoid brush marks when painting models one should also avoid that very obvious "airbrush effect". Reality gets dirty, it doesn't get airbrushed. Chaz Agree completely Chaz. Airbrushes are much over-rated for weathering. They have their place of course, but the hassle of setting them up, doing a few squirts, the inevitable wasted paint and the final rigmarole of cleaning has me reaching for my brushes more often than not. Having lit the blue touch-paper, I shall retire as instructed on the label of the pyrortechnic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 just as a scalpel is probably not the optimum choice for the commercial logging of North American lumber... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddlejumper Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) It's another one of those subjects that polarises opinions, I think Chris is absolutely right but airbrushes are the tool of choice for me when weathering track or misting over buildings. I find it gives a degree of consistency if you use a very light touch........ Now I shall wait for the smelly stuff to hit the air rotating device........ Edited October 17, 2014 by puddlejumper 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 just as a scalpel is probably not the optimum choice for the commercial logging of North American lumber... I knew I was doing something wrong....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) It's another one of those subjects that polarises opinions, I think Chris is absolutely right but airbrushes are the tool of choice for me when weathering track or misting over buildings. I find it gives a degree of consistency if you use a very light touch........ Now I shall wait for the smelly stuff to hit the fan........ I'd have to agree with that 100%. Horses for courses. Airbrushes are brilliant for misting a layer of paint on, indeed the buildings and walls on Dock Green were airbrushed with a overall misting of sooty grime. They also suit any detail work that is "sprayed" in reality.The stain on a wall left by an extractor being a good example. The problems come when weathering on a model shouts "airbrushed!". The best way to model dirt and grime is the best way to do any modelling - look at the prototype. Once you have an idea of how the real thing gets/got mucky in service you have a much better chance of making a convincing model. Of course that still presents problems - how do you get effects that form on the real thing in use through the use of paint, powders etc? If this forum teaches us anything it is that there are no right answers - just ways that work and those that don't. We don't need to polarise our opinions - my working methods suit me and IMHO give me convincing results but I am happy to read about and see other approaches - you won't here me say "You don't want to do it that way". I would rather say "That's a very convincing effect" or to think to myself "Hmmm, won't be doing that!". Chaz Edited October 17, 2014 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It's not horses for courses, but using the right tool for the job. I used my airbrush extensively on the Hymek, especially for the dirt on the bogies and lower bodyside. It is the perfect tool to get the subtle variations in colour that are characteristic of the lower reaches of diesel locos and also the soot around the exhaust ports. Gentle dry-brushing highlighted the details on the bogies and diluted black Indian ink was flowed into the grills, doors and other panels. On the Manning Wardle I painted on the basic dirt with a brush and used cotton buds and white spirit to remove some of it. Powders were used to finish the loco. I think the results on both are pleasing, to my eye at least. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 It's not horses for courses, but using the right tool for the job. I used my airbrush extensively on the Hymek, especially for the dirt on the bogies and lower bodyside. It is the perfect tool to get the subtle variations in colour that are characteristic of the lower reaches of diesel locos and also the soot around the exhaust ports. Gentle dry-brushing highlighted the details on the bogies and diluted black Indian ink was flowed into the grills, doors and other panels. On the Manning Wardle I painted on the basic dirt with a brush and used cotton buds and white spirit to remove some of it. Powders were used to finish the loco. I think the results on both are pleasing, to my eye at least. "It's not horses for courses, but using the right tool for the job." Erm.....errrr......AH Ha. What's that tugging one of my lower limbs? "the soot around the exhaust ports" OH! Were the WR hydraulics coal burners then? Joking apart I do like your Hymek and it's dusty look. Spot on, sir! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 "It's not horses for courses, but using the right tool for the job." Erm.....errrr......AH Ha. What's that tugging one of my lower limbs? "the soot around the exhaust ports" OH! Were the WR hydraulics coal burners then? Joking apart I do like your Hymek and it's dusty look. Spot on, sir! Soot is impure carbon particles resulting from the incomplete combustion of hydrocarbons. It is more properly restricted to the product of the gas-phase combustion process, but is commonly extended to include the residual pyrolysed fuel particles such as coal, charred wood and petroleum coke, and so on, that may become airborne during pyrolysis and that are more properly identified as cokes or chars. By adding a "y" to the end it is magically transmogriified into a harmless glove puppet. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Soot is impure carbon particles resulting from the incomplete combustion of hydrocarbons. It is more properly restricted to the product of the gas-phase combustion process, but is commonly extended to include the residual pyrolysed fuel particles such as coal, charred wood and petroleum coke, and so on, that may become airborne during pyrolysis and that are more properly identified as cokes or chars. By adding a "y" to the end it is magically transmogriified into a harmless glove puppet. And I have some idea what one could do with that harmless glove puppet! Ping pong anybody? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddlejumper Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Soot is impure carbon particles resulting from the incomplete combustion of hydrocarbons. It is more properly restricted to the product of the gas-phase combustion process, but is commonly extended to include the residual pyrolysed fuel particles such as coal, charred wood and petroleum coke, and so on, that may become airborne during pyrolysis and that are more properly identified as cokes or chars. By adding a "y" to the end it is magically transmogriified into a harmless glove puppet. I can believe that even though you lost me after incomplete combustion.......... Have to say both your loco's look stunning, excellent examples of both methods Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Anderson Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Soot is impure carbon particles resulting from the incomplete combustion of hydrocarbons. It is more properly restricted to the product of the gas-phase combustion process, but is commonly extended to include the residual pyrolysed fuel particles such as coal, charred wood and petroleum coke, and so on, that may become airborne during pyrolysis and that are more properly identified as cokes or chars. Are you sure that you were Pay Corps? :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) A final reminder if you don't live too far away - and fancy seeing Dock Green in action.... We will be at the CSGOG* one day show this Sunday, 19th October.The venue is the Allendale Community Centre, Hanham Road, Wimborne, Dorset, BH21 1AS. Doors open at 10 and close at 4:30pm A good local show devoted to O gauge. No need to panic if you miss this one, we are taking it to Portsmouth at the end of November and to Eastleigh in January. Further details of these two shows will follow soon. *Central Southern Gauge O Guild Chaz PS - Just in case you were counting on seeing it the Diag 86 van will not be going as it has no couplings yet and is unweathered - however I can offer you thrills and excitement in the shape of an ex-SR CCT instead, a special guest appearance! PPS - I am hoping to get a few snaps of the layout at the show - should any of them be worth it I will post them next week. Sue is coming with us and she has been known to get the odd photo or two. Edited October 17, 2014 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2014 I am not sure that Sooty was harmless (one might wonder about HArry's state of mind attacking oneself with a glove puppet cannot be normal). Different people find different techniques work both look very effective. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 I am not sure that Sooty was harmless (one might wonder about HArry's state of mind attacking oneself with a glove puppet cannot be normal). Different people find different techniques work both look very effective. Don "attacking oneself with a glove puppet cannot be normal" No, but it must have been a fairly easy way to make a living. As you say different techniques can work well in different hands - For instance I can't get on with acrylic paints on rolling stock although I did use the stuff extensively to colour the ground and the ballast. I know others love it. Sue and I spent two hours this afternoon running through the checklist and stacking everything ready for loading tomorrow morning. How you stack things to get them out of the way is rather different to how you do it for loading - big stuff first! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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