Sutton Junction Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Hi, I recently bought a Class 350 in Silverlink livery but for some reason when I put a 21 pin decoder in it, it wont work. It seems to be fine on DC but once the decoder is fitted and I try to connect it to my Select controller all I get is 8 red flashes and no connection. I have tried 2 seperate decoders and also checked that other locos connect and work with my controller. I have taken it apart as well and cannot see any loose wires or connections. Is this a known problem with the 350 or is mine a one off??? This is the first problem ive come across with any of my locos on DCC. If possible I want to sort it myself and as a last resort send it back to Bachmann. Any help is appriciated Thanks Sutty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 If you have tried the same chip in a different vehicle and it's ok then it might be an issue with the 350. Or does it need all vehicles connected together the right way round? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton Junction Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 If you have tried the same chip in a different vehicle and it's ok then it might be an issue with the 350. Or does it need all vehicles connected together the right way round? Yeah the chip is fine. Thats an idea, ill try that next although the motor unit works solo on DC so I cant see why it would be different on DCC. Ill give it a go though cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petertg Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I had a similar problem with a Bachmann 150. I had pushed the decoder right down to the bottom of the pins and it didn't work. I now have it stuck just on the top end of the pins and it works. You've got nothing to lose trying that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 As far as I am aware there are no known problems with the 350, I have fitted decoders to 5 to date and all worked without problem, in fact decoder fittng is a very rapid process with this model as many have commented! Try if possible a different decoder in the unit ( It is not nescessary to connect the other 3 cars to test, the power car will work on its own) if this does not work then there may be a problem, with the locos PCB, but I would think that unusual, I would suggest the the decoder is pushed fully home, when fitting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dubdee1000 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 You might want to read about other people with similar problems here: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36495 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Further to my post above, it would appear that from reading the link on Dubdee 1000's post there is a compatability problem with the Select system and certain decoders. I have a few different DCC systems here but not a SELECT otherwise I would have tested a 350. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_l_jones Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I resolved two issues in one with both my Bachmann 350 and MPV. Neither would respond to my Dynamis or EZ command systems with a Bachmann, Lenz or TCS decoder fitted.... The MPV had already been to Bachmann but they couldn't recreate the fault ! I'd read on NRM to try a Sapphire Decoder and it worked on both models which previosuly did not respond at all.. I managed to get them for £19.99 each.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton Junction Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Have you put the decoder on the plug upside down . 21 pin decoders are easy to insert like this , and in some cases , even 180degrees out as well.. No its connected the right way. I didnt know you could put them in the wrong way, well not in this model anyway as space is very limited where the chip sits. Thanks for your idea though I had a similar problem with a Bachmann 150. I had pushed the decoder right down to the bottom of the pins and it didn't work. I now have it stuck just on the top end of the pins and it works. You've got nothing to lose trying that. Ive tried both ways but neither work. Thanks for you help though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton Junction Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 As far as I am aware there are no known problems with the 350, I have fitted decoders to 5 to date and all worked without problem, in fact decoder fittng is a very rapid process with this model as many have commented! Try if possible a different decoder in the unit ( It is not nescessary to connect the other 3 cars to test, the power car will work on its own) if this does not work then there may be a problem, with the locos PCB, but I would think that unusual, I would suggest the the decoder is pushed fully home, when fitting. Your right it is a very quick and straight forward process, much easier than most locos. I cant understand whats wrong with it. You might want to read about other people with similar problems here: http://www.newrailwa...php?f=3&t=36495 Thanks I will have a read Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton Junction Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Further to my post above, it would appear that from reading the link on Dubdee 1000's post there is a compatability problem with the Select system and certain decoders. I have a few different DCC systems here but not a SELECT otherwise I would have tested a 350. Ive not had any problems connecting Bachmanns decoders before, I have at least 4 that work perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton Junction Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I resolved two issues in one with both my Bachmann 350 and MPV. Neither would respond to my Dynamis or EZ command systems with a Bachmann, Lenz or TCS decoder fitted.... The MPV had already been to Bachmann but they couldn't recreate the fault ! I'd read on NRM to try a Sapphire Decoder and it worked on both models which previosuly did not respond at all.. I managed to get them for £19.99 each.. Haha dont say that the MPV is one of my next buys!!! I have a few Sapphires in other locos so I will give one a try. Thanks for your advice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris89 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Strange issue really. I had a LM 350/1 which i had to send back to Hattons what had the exactly the same issue. I did test the decoder i ordered in my 150 which it worked and also tested the Hornby Sapphire that is in the 150 as well and still was no go. When i did phone they did mention it seems to have issues with the Hornby Select controller, but then since using a NCE Power Cab was a complete new one. In the end it was the model that was faulty that was ashame, but was giving a full refund as at the time none were in stock. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I've had two Bachmann locos (A 105 DMU and an S&D 7F) where there were the exact same problem - ran fine on DC, but nada on DCC, depsite different chips etc. Turned out to be PCB problems with both - a short due to excess solder on one, and wrongly connected wires on the other. Has to be said though, that the shop (A) were brilliant at diagnosing and resolving problems/replacing the model, and (B ) these are the only cases they've had where this has happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard hines Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I have spoken to Bachmann regarding the Select controller and a Bachmann chip fitted Derby lieghtweight which does not respond at all.They have told me that it is because the selects signal is "noisey" and sends spikes what ever that means.They have asked me to send the model back to them to have a proceedure carried out as they are aware of the problem.Ive done that so wait and see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Another 350 problem although not really a fault, more a shortcoming. My 350 runs perfectly on the flat, but wheelslips on the slightest incline. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve it's adherence? I have a Bachmann 411 that climbs the slope with no difficulty and even the infamous Hornby 4VEP manages (although that cheats using rubber tyres). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton Junction Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Hi, Sorry for the extremly late reply but due to work and a holiday ive been neglecting my trains. Today I tested the Sapphire decoder in my 350 and low and behold it works!!! For some reason though the interier lights vary in brightness in each carriage and the side destination blinds dont light up. Has anyone else had this problem and is there any way of sorting it? While I was at it I tested my Bachmann MPV Windhoff and this had the same problem. I bought it DCC Fitted but for the same unknown reason it will only accept a Sapphire decoder and not its origional one. Has anyone else had this too? Thanks, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkwolf1877 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Had similar problems too. I've got all 3 350's and had no problems with the Silverlink or LM 350/1 but had fun and games with the LM 350/2. Fitted a new Bachmann 21 pin decoder and no response so tried another and still nothing so borrowed 1 from a 150 which worked fine in the 150 but did nothing in the 350. I then tried all the decoders in the 150 and all worked fine so that illuminated problems with the decoders! I then took the 350 to my club and swapped decoders with a friends 350, they both ran fine! Swapped decoders back and they both still ran fine! So I never really did find the problem but I'm not the only one in my club who had fun and games with the 350! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton Junction Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Had similar problems too. I've got all 3 350's and had no problems with the Silverlink or LM 350/1 but had fun and games with the LM 350/2. Fitted a new Bachmann 21 pin decoder and no response so tried another and still nothing so borrowed 1 from a 150 which worked fine in the 150 but did nothing in the 350. I then tried all the decoders in the 150 and all worked fine so that illuminated problems with the decoders! I then took the 350 to my club and swapped decoders with a friends 350, they both ran fine! Swapped decoders back and they both still ran fine! So I never really did find the problem but I'm not the only one in my club who had fun and games with the 350! Haha its very strange I cant work it out, the only thing I can suggest is that certain ones are tested before leaving the factory as a form of quality control and the use Bachmann Dynamis controllers which alters the CV settings. I just hope I can use the spare 21 pin chips or im going to need to sell them on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpeter3 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I have a similar problem with a friend's 350 - the motor will work but no lights in any of the cars. Having had a look at the circuitry it seems that the lighting is powered back through the pickups not to the usual positive common (blue wire) to the decoder. I wonder if this is part of the problem? I'm tempted to wire it with three decoders if the Sapphire I've just received doesn't resolve the problem. The Blue Pullman seems to have 4 pin connections between coaches compared to the 350's 2 pins, so that there are separate power and lighting circuits I assume? JP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughnut Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Just fitted a Loksound V4.0 21 pin sound decoder to my Class 350.. When programming the address all goes well, I use a Lenz set 90. But when I check the address that ive just programmed I keep getting an ER 01 error message, which, when looked up, means short circuit, either chip is fitted wronly or it is faulty. Ive installed the chip as per instructions, ie right way around and right side up. I hard-wired all my other Locksound chips and they work fine. The 21 pin installation, which should make life easier could be the problem?? Anyone else had this problem ? Dave K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattroman41 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Hi, Sorry for the extremly late reply but due to work and a holiday ive been neglecting my trains. Today I tested the Sapphire decoder in my 350 and low and behold it works!!! For some reason though the interier lights vary in brightness in each carriage and the side destination blinds dont light up. Has anyone else had this problem and is there any way of sorting it? While I was at it I tested my Bachmann MPV Windhoff and this had the same problem. I bought it DCC Fitted but for the same unknown reason it will only accept a Sapphire decoder and not its origional one. Has anyone else had this too? Thanks, Jack Nearly two years on from this post and I have just bought the Class 350 mail order. It worked fine on DC but nothing at all works on DCC. The decoder was checked ok on an ESU decoder tester and also in another loco, all OK. You can also read the CV's when the decoder is installed in the 350 using an Elite controller. I spoke to the supplier and returned it. Another unit arrived in the post today and it is just the same. I rang them again and was advised to speak to their DCC expert next week when he returns to work. Why the sapphire decoder works is probably that it is essentially an 8 pin decoder with a 21 pin connector, so 13 of the pins are not connected to anything on the chip. On a normal 21 pin chip probably all pins connect to something on the loco PC board and if there is a short circuit on the loco PC board through these extra connections it shuts down the decoder due to overload protection. I had a similar problem on my two year old Bachmann Lightweight DMU (out of guarantee). It suddenly only worked when the top was removed on DCC, worked on DC with the top fitted (see RMWEB Lightweight DMU lighting problems). I ended up rewiring the power car roof lights as described on RMWEB using the auxiliary function F2 to turn on the lights using the blue and purple wires from the decoder and insulating the original connections to the roof lights. Bachmann technical dept where not particularly helpful saying an extra capacitor was fitted to later models to overcome this problem, but no indication as to where and in any case this did not solve my problem. Perhaps they should read RMWEB to see the many problems with their products. Hornby has its own own onlne forum where advice can be sought. I have not tried it yet because it is still under guarantee and do not wish to dismantle the power car but would not be surprised if the 350 works correctly on DCC with the top removed due to the roof lighting being disconnected !!! Watch this space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted May 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2014 Try taking the decoder out, restore the blanking plug and check that the unit runs on DC without changing the orientation of any of the vehicles in the train. If it doesn't make sure each vehicle is facing the correct way and try again. Only then would I suggest fitting the decoder again but make sure the vehicles maintain the order they had under DCC operation and that you don't inadvertently turn one of the middle coaches round the wrong way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattroman41 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Try taking the decoder out, restore the blanking plug and check that the unit runs on DC without changing the orientation of any of the vehicles in the train. If it doesn't make sure each vehicle is facing the correct way and try again. Only then would I suggest fitting the decoder again but make sure the vehicles maintain the order they had under DCC operation and that you don't inadvertently turn one of the middle coaches round the wrong way. Thanks for your response. Looking under each of the coaches I had not noticed before the two pin connector at each end has red and black wires attached to it. It therefore seems logical to connect red to red, black to black at each of the three connections to ensure the coaches are the correct way round. The instructions simply state that the coaches should arranged in order A to D for correct operation of the lights but additionally looking at the wire colour seems better. I have tried what you suggest but it makes no difference. The instructions recommend running in the power car unloaded, I presume this means with no coaches attached. If you can do this on DC then I guess it should work on DCC without any coaches attached. This removes any wiring/PCboards in the non-powered coaches causing a problem. This does not work either on DCC. On a previous post i referred to trying running with the top removed as the roof lighting on my two year old lightweight DMU somehow stopped any movement. This did not work either with the Desiro. I have come to the conclusion that the power car is duff. When I speak to the supplier next week I will ask them to supply another one with the decoder fitted and tested. Hopefully It will be third time lucky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted May 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 17, 2014 Have you no way of testing the decoder separately? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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