Filler primer

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

Filler primer, I've never used this before. So what I would like to know is do you use one thick coat or build up several thin ones rubbing down between each one? Until you have the surface flat. The dips and hollows are only a few thou. but will show on the finish job.

 

Also can it be over painted with etch primer, or do you have to use normal primer?

 

TIA

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. I'm not sure if this should be in here or in the weathering, painting & transfers section. If it should be in that one please move it.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Ozzy,

 

my only experience of filler/primer is from the motor industry. It was usually applied heavily in one coat and then rubbed down.

 

It would normally be applied over etch primer (or some other surface treatment but cheap repairers didn't usually bother). Provided you haven't rubbed through it and have a good surface finish, I wouldn't bother with another coat of primer.

 

Jol

[ozzyo]

Thanks for that Jol,

 

the problem is I will probable end up going back to the bare metal in some parts.

 

OzzyO.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Thanks for that Jol,

 

the problem is I will probable end up going back to the bare metal in some parts.

 

OzzyO.

Ozzy

 

In which case I would etch prime, then use the primer filler, etch prime again, then finally use ordinary primer.

 

I've just had to rub down a 4mm model in a couple of places when the colour coat (gloss black) showed up a couple of distortions. Next is to try etch priming the bare metal again with the airbrush before giving it an overall colour coat.

 

Jol

[sagaguy]

Basically with primer filler,you spray the part with one coat,wait for it to dry.This will show up any dips,hollows etc.fill these with car knifing filler,( it`s a cellulose putty) used in thin layers.when dry,rub down with 600 wet & dry paper used very wet!!.Spray another coat of primer & check for imperfections,any blemishes,repeat the process again.It depends how good you want the final finish.There are no short cuts to preperation.

 

Ray.

[ozzyo]

Hello Ray all,

 

I did think about using a knifing filler but as the dips (about 3 - 5 thou.) will be going down to a knife edge I did not think that I would get a good enough edge with it. That is why I'm looking at the filler primer.

 

OzzyO.

[Jon020]

Seems to be some stuff trialed by George Dent in a MR recently... and on his blog http://georgedentmod...01_archive.html made by Alclad. Had considered getting some myself, but will be interested to see what others think.

Jon

Edit - sorry wrong page link ... try this one http://georgedentmodelmaker.blogspot.com/2012_04_01_archive.html

[sagaguy]

Hello Ray all,

 

I did think about using a knifing filler but as the dips (about 3 - 5 thou.) will be going down to a knife edge I did not think that I would get a good enough edge with it. That is why I'm looking at the filler primer.

 

OzzyO.

 

 

 

Hi,knifing filler is designed for very small dips & hollows,in fact,it should be used in very thin layers otherwise it doesn`t harden properly.

 

Ray.

 

P.S. Very wet worn wet & dry is best of all for a fine finish!!!

[ozzyo]

Hello Jon20,

 

what section is it in?

 

OzzyO.

[Jon020]

Hello Jon20,

 

what section is it in?

 

OzzyO.

Sorry, it was mentioned in the current April one... about half way down. Really sorry, but it did get a mention before in an earlier entry (I'm sure) but I'd need to read through them all to find it. Try dropping the menu for each month to see if filler/primer gets a mention. I'm sure it was trialed in MR... so he probably did a bit in here too. I'm not much use I'm afraid... but I think it registered sufficiently for me to think about giving it a try.. until now I've been a Halfords primer man (plastic models you see... not metal, only etched parts). Good luck

Jon

[ozzyo]

Cheers Jon20. Just keep an eye on my build thread and you'll see how I get on, and what I think.

 

OzzyO.

[Peter Bedding]

A noddy question, I fear, but are cellulose materials still available? I had been led to believe that they fell foul of modern (Health and Safety) legislation. Certainly, cellulose fumes require special consideration by the user.

 

PB

[BlackRat]

Ozzyo, for a fine 'filler' try using 'Tippex' correcting fluid, works a treat (if you can get it where you are).

[sagaguy]

A noddy question, I fear, but are cellulose materials still available? I had been led to believe that they fell foul of modern (Health and Safety) legislation. Certainly, cellulose fumes require special consideration by the user.

 

PB

 

I didn`t know that,I have a tin of car plan grey knifing stopper that i`ve had for many years!! seems you can`t buy Humbrol filler either.Tamiya white body putty seems to be the nearest alternative.Ho Hum!!!

Ray.

[Bruciethefish]

It seems to be cellulose paints that have fallen out of favour, due to the huge amount of volatile hydrocarbons required to thin them for spraying, though the materials are still available from specialist body shop suppliers, if you know where to look.. Things like knifing putty only contain a small amount of volatile thinners, so are still to be found on the shelves of your local car accessory emporium..

I think that the Humbrol filler may have been withdrawn due to health & safety considerations within the 'toy industry' side of things, as this could be considered a 'crossover' product, & could have been available to minors.. (not that anyone is ever likely to have suffered injury from a tube of filler....)

[Kenton]

not that anyone is ever likely to have suffered injury from a tube of filler....)

 

Except those taken to "sniffing" glues, aerosols and other solvent based products - like those tubes of cement that used to be supplied in Airfix kits or tubes of Bostick or Evostick.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

the filler primer has arrived, so before I start slapping carefully applying it to the tender. I thought that I would do a test.

I got a piece of scrap brass out for this and placed it over a piece of thin card and taped it with hammer to leave a small dint in it (it's about 4 thou. deep).

 

Then It was sprayed with etch primer and over sprayed with filler primer (this did seem a bit thin) so I gave it a good blast. These are the runs that you can see.

 

The next job is to rub it down and see if it has filled the dip.

 

If it has not, I think that I will have to use knifing filler. Do you apply it directly to the metal of onto a primed base?

 

OzzyO.

[Kenton]

so I gave it a good blast. These are the runs that you can see.

 

Is that not going to present the opposite problem of now having both a ridge and a dent making it even more difficult to sand off level with the surrounding metal? At least with knifing in a filler the surround edge of the dent provides the high mark for the subsequent sanding.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

the filler primer has arrived, so before I start slapping carefully applying it to the tender. I thought that I would do a test.

The next job is to rub it down and see if it has filled the dip.

OzzyO.

Is that not going to present the opposite problem of now having both a ridge and a dent making it even more difficult to sand off level with the surrounding metal?

 

Hello Kenton

 

I did say in my first line that this was a TEST.

 

OzzyO.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

as you know I'm trying out some filler primer. The test piece below, has etch primer, filler primer and black paint on it.

 

This afternoon I started to rub it down, but where the runs were the filler primer was still a bit soft, so I stopped rubbing down. The black spot with the circle around it is where the dint is, so tomorrow I'll get a better idea.

 

OzzyO.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

in my last post on the test piece I had to give up as the filler primer was still soft. So I put it on the radiator over night and had a go just now.

This was with some 280 grit wet'n'dry stuck to a block of wood used wet.

 

After I had got it to this finish I measured the dint it's 0.1mm or 4 thou. So I think that some more wet'n'dry lolly sticks are in order, starting at about 280 going to about 800 grit used wet.

 

Now to over paint it with etch primer. To see if its OK to use on top of the filler primer.

 

OzzyO.

[M.I.B]

No need for the etch over filler primer, unless you want to recover the areas bare-metalled by your filler smoothing.

 

Don't forget to pre soak the Wet n dry in warm water with a tiny dod of wash up liquid in it. That stops the paint and gobbo/plod/wag sticking to the wet n dry and keeps the wet n dry nice and flexible. A crease in dry stiff wet n dry will destroy any smoothness created by 500 grade and above.

[sagaguy]

Whoa!!do not use washing up liquid on any area you want to paint.It leaves a sort of silicon additive to the water so that water slides off,it will do the same to your paint finish.Just use wet & dry paper with plain water,it won`t clog up if you keep rinsing it!.Have a look at the dublo layout topic in collectable & vintage forum,my HD A4`s have had valences added,sprayed with grey primer,any imperfections filled with knifing stopper,rubbed down & grey primer again until i`m happy with the finish ready for top coats.

 

Ray.

[ozzyo]

Hello M I B all,

 

thanks for that I've never used washing up liquid when using wet'n'dry before but will give it a go. I don't think that I will have any problems with getting any creases in it as I'm going to use these.

 

The top two are just cheap emery boards for roughing out, then I have three wet'n'dry ones in 180, 280 & 400 grits I may make one with 1000 grit as well for the final finish before the last coat of primer goes on.

 

This is a photo of the tender side using flash, this has highlighted the dips and bumps, so I think that I will end up using etch primer as the last coat.

 

Before the first coat of etch primer goes on I will grit-blast the sides, then I think that I will drop it into the ultrasonic cleaner. I don't think that I will grit-blast it before the last coat of primer goes on though.

 

Masking off the parts that I don't want the filler primer on will be fun. What I think I will do is a coat of etch primer then two coats of filler, rub back, see how it's doing, if it needs more filler the same again and so on until I'm happy with the finish, then a coat of etch primer on the sides only.

 

OzzyO.

 

Edit. I've just seen the reply from sagaguy, as the final clean will be with the red Cillit Bang which is a degreaser. So that should take any lanolin off the metal. Also as the primer is acid based that will help.

 

Question. Has anyone had the paint fall off because they have used Fairy Liquid to clean their brass kit? If it is not rinsed off properly it may happen, but that is just down to bad prep work. A mate of mine who is a pro. painter always dips the work in cellulose thinners before applying the primer I think the main thing is the primer that is used.

[M.I.B]

 

Question. Has anyone had the paint fall off because they have used Fairy Liquid to clean their brass kit? If it is not rinsed off properly it may happen, but that is just down to bad prep work. A mate of mine who is a pro. painter always dips the work in cellulose thinners before applying the primer I think the main thing is the primer that is used.

 

My tip on fairy in wet n dry water comes from the car world. To answer your query also citing the car world for help - the last thing you do before paint is give the surface a wipe with panel wipe, which is like weak thinners. Any excess evapourates leaving a clean dry surface.