Delph Branch now even more famous...

[coachmann]

Fellow member Dave Holt should be aware that, even as I type, Delph Branches could be springing up all over the country as a result of an article in the November issue of 'Hornby Magazine', not to mention his excellent RMweb WB thread. Will the WB be continued on here?

 

One photo shows a LNWR Diagram M75 cove roof non driving trailer at work on the branch in 1952.

 

There is also a Delph Branch Trackplan for '00' featured in the article by Evan Green-Hughes. Much food for thought there IMO.

 

Larry

[craigwelsh]

snip.. not to mention his excellent RMweb WB thread. Will the WB be continued on here?

 

Larry

It already has been, see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/140-dave-holts-blog/

 

I've got it in my tracked blog list. My Settings->blogs->tracked blogs once you've added tracking from the menu on the right..

 

I travelled through that area when I went to EM North so i'm looking forward to his start on the scenic work although I know there is a lot of work yet!

[Nick Holliday]

Although the article is interesting and the photographs are excellent, the old Hornby Magazine track planning gremlins seem to have been hard at work. The arrangement of sidings at Delph don't seem to fit the photos and, as always, the run-round pointwork is rather cramped. The intermediate siding is the usual set-track nightmare and the arrangement at the junction looks clumsy compared with the view of the real thing, although I appreciate that the designer has reversed the layout there to suit how the branch fits not the space, but I don't understand what he has achieved with his proposal here.

[coachmann]

The arrangement of sidings at Delph don't seem to fit the photos and, as always, the run-round pointwork is rather cramped. The intermediate siding is the usual set-track nightmare.........

 

In fairness to Evan, the layout is quoted as 'not to scale' and is probably meant to provide food for thought. Delph on its own was a boring place in reality but it was the best vantage point on the branch and it attracted many photographers. On a model, one would need to dream up excuses for extra traffic seeing as not all the 'Donkeys' ran through to Delph. A push pull extended "up the hill from Stalybridge" would provide a service to Guide Bridge and give one the change to use LNER stock and a C13.

[Andy C]

<br /> Delph on its own was a boring place in reality .<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

And apart from one Friday evening in June every year still is, but if you like a quiet sort of life.....

 

With a bit of "what might have been" ie what if the line had been extended and doubled up to Denshaw and then a tunnel bored through to Ogden / New Hey and onto Rochdale. Strikes me some daft b*gg*r could get a layout called Spartbottom PCD out of that one............................

[andyelan]

Hi everyone

 

I posted this track plan on the previous website but I'm not really sure that was actually the right place so I'm posting it here too. I hope that's not a problem

 

If anyone is interested, this is my take on Delph station using Peco Code75 track. I've kept the width to scale but I have had to shortened the overall length by approx 10% because of space constraints but generally I do think it's a faily good representation. It was a pity the Peco 3-way assymetric point is the wrong hand otherwise that would have been ideal just before the double slip.

 

Although I've had most of the track down for some time now work stalled when it came to wiring it up (I think I got a bit lost), however, work is progressing albeit very slowly.

 

One day maybe I'll be able to post updates on how thing a going, however, in the mean time if anyone has any comments of advice it would be most welcome.

 

Regards

Andy

Track Plan.pdf

[coachmann]

I posted this track plan on the previous website but I'm not really sure that was actually the right place so I'm posting it here too.? 

 

The loco-release beyond the coal shoots always seemed a waste to me. It meant the adjacent siding had to remain empty if it was to serve as a run-round loop. Also, locos would not run into the head shunt in order to push coal wagons away from the coal chutes because of the laws governing shunting on the Delph Branch. The loco always had to be at the Greenfield end to prevent runaways heading off in the direction of the mainline. This is why intermediate sidings could only be served by trains heading from Delph.

 

 

I would remove the set of points adjacent to the coal chutes and use the adjacent siding as a siding.

 

Just a thought.

 

Larry G.

[andyelan]

Hi Again

 

Although I have posted this on the previous website, I not sure if that was actually the correct place for it so I'm posting again here. Hope that's ok with everyone.

I have to say I do feel a little over awed by Dave's work as for a while now I too have been working on a layout based on the Delph branch although it's nothing like to the standard I've seen here.

 

As part of my project, however, I have started to produce a set of CAD drawings of the various buildings and structures around the station area. These are based on the photographs and a site visit made a couple of years ago and although I believe they are reasonably accurate they??™re not base on any actual info regarding dimensions etc. What I would like to ask therefore is if anyone has any information/photographs which they would be willing to share with me which might help might be of help. Of course if drawings already exist, then there??™s little point in me simply copying them, however if this is not the case, I be quite happy to correlate information people might have into a single set of drawings and then make them available to anyone who wants them.

 

As an examples of the work I've already done, here are a couple of PDFs showing the Goods Shed. I be quite happy to here any comments people might have on this. As the drawings are on CAD any corrections or ammendments are easily made.

 

Looking forward to any replies

Regards

Andy Blackburn

Delph Goods Shed Sheet 2.PDF

Delph Goods Shed Sheet 1.PDF

[Nick Holliday]

Andy

Nice drawings but one minor point - you annotate the drawings as being full-size. This of course is unlikely to be correct unless you have actually drawn them 100 feet long. You have put in a scale bar of sorts, so people can make up their own minds, but it would be better if you had said "Drawing Full Size for 4mm (1:76) scale when printed at A3" or whatever is correct, as, with Adobe, you can easily print it out on any size paper.

I hadn't noticed the grilles at low level before - was there a basement or cellar under the shed?

[andyelan]

Hi Nick

 

Thanks very much for your comments.

 

I take your point about scale but if printed out as A3 then the drawing should work out at 2mm to the foot. I do intend to tidy up the drawings a bit though, adding some textures on the walls and roof and some boarders etc., so I'll sort this out then. Actually it says "full size" because when a drawing is done in CAD that's how it is drawn as this isn't a problem when it's viewed on a computer screen. Only when it becomes necessary to print out a drawing does scale matter and then it has to be set to suit the size of paper is being used.

 

I can't be 100% sure what the grill were but they appear in photos so I've drawn them in (the ones on the loading bay side are a bit of a guess as I've only a description of these but no photos). I believe they were windows for a celler but one which most likely only extended under a loading platform inside the shed and this would then explain why they don't appear on the track side walls of the shed. My guess is the celler would have been entered by the ground level door in the office and then down some steps. I imagine around 2/3 of the celler would have been below ground level and a 1/3 above ground under this loading platform. That would then leave the windows in this gap between the ground and platform deck so that from inside, they would appear at around head height. Perhaps if anyone has any definitive answers to this however then they could maybe let us know. Also some photos of the shed showing the loading bay side nice if anyone has any, it was all gone by the time of my visit to Delph

 

Regards

Andy

[Gravy Train]

Delph station building:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will try and post the others up later tonight.

[coachmann]

Wow...That building is well smart. This is the first time I've seen a serious model of Delph Station. I know you have seen this picture of the station on its 50th Anniversary,but I thought it worth posting again.... It was never this clean when I knew it in the early 1950's...

[Gravy Train]

Thankyu Coachman,

A few more with many more when i get the chance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

more later.

[coachmann]

One morning when working the No.13 Limited Stop to Uppermill circa 1963, my driver and I wandered into Delph Station. The thing that brought this to mind is the lack of entrance doors on your model on the street side. We must have gone onto the platform unless there was a side entrance? Tickets and waybills were strewn everywhere but there was no sign of vandalism such as broken windows. If only I knew then what I know now, I'd have photographed the place!

 

The model is coming on very well. Will you be giving it a delapadated platform canopy?

 

Larry

[Gravy Train]

Hi Larry, thanks for your favourable comments, there is no evidence of a door at the rear, all the drawings and photos show there to be only windows at the rear which is very odd.

The mens toilet is accessed from the platform side at the far end and the ladies through the far end door platform side via ladies waiting room.

A lot of the photos we have are post railway and show the stonework to be clean as opposed to its darker shade/look of railway days, the finish on this model much darker but not over done.

This building is heavy by plastic standards, excessivley braced and each room partitioned, there is no interior detailas such except for chimney stacks,fireplaces and interior painted walls, yes i know you can't see them, the toilets have a fully modelled interior and you can't see them either, i know, i'm a hypocrit lol

cheers.

[Dave Holt]

Larry/Peter,

 

Just found this thread. Thanks for the comments and the photos (some more recent than on my layout blog!). The building is looking fantastic.

 

Regarding the state of the canopy facia - it doesn't look too dillapidated in photos taken before closure, but obviously weathered and sooty (or was that a glove puppet?). I've asked Peter to finish the whole building (and platform and goods shed) in a 1950's generally dirtied condition, but still structurally maintained.

 

I don't fully agree with Peter's comments on the access to the toilets. True, there is no evidence that there were ever doors on the non-platform side of the building. Even access to the booking hall was off the platform which was entered through a gate at the end of the building. The windows at the far end (of the road side) were the ladies toilets, which were accessed through a door from inside the ladies waiting room, itself accessed direct from the platform. The gents urinal and cubicle were accessed from the platform via the low, widish openinf at the LH end of the platform side. There was a sloping flat roof over all the toilet area, so no even gents standing up got wet! Also iside the gents area was an oil store. more or less dead opposite the entrance.

 

The sequence of doors and windows on the platform side is - starting from the right hand end:

Window into booking clarks office

Door into general waiting room + booking hall

Window into same

Window into gents waiting room

Door into same

Door into ladies waiting room

Window into same

Entrance to gents toilet.

 

Looking forward to further pics of progress.

 

Dave.

[Dave Holt]

Ooops, should read things more thoroughly before bashing off a response! Peter's description of the toilet access is completely correct and in line with my explanation above.

 

Sorry!

 

Dave.

[Grovenor]

The loco-release beyond the coal shoots always seemed a waste to me. It meant the adjacent siding had to remain empty if it was to serve as a run-round loop. Also, locos would not run into the head shunt in order to push coal wagons away from the coal chutes because of the laws governing shunting on the Delph Branch. The loco always had to be at the Greenfield end to prevent runaways heading off in the direction of the mainline.

 

I suspect you are applying model railway thinking here, I doubt that would be intended as a loco release, more a wagon release. Locos were not usually allowed over the coal drops. Full loads would be propelled to the drops, when empty the men would crow them into the dead end from where they could be picked up by a shunt from the adjacent siding without having to disturb other full wagons.

Shouldn't be to hard to hide a hidden wagon pusher to replicate this.

 

No doubt now, those who spent their youth watching the yard activity at Delph will contradict me! That's railways. prototype for everything.

Regards

Keith

[coachmann]

Thanks for the comments and the photos (some more recent than on my layout blog!).

I didn't know you had a 'blog' or whatever they call it these days.

 

PS: I types 'Dave Holts blog' in search and it came up with nothing. I then typed in 'Delph' and it came up with..... 'Dave Holt's blog' Ureeka.

[Dave Holt]

Hi Nick

 

Thanks very much for your comments.

 

I take your point about scale but if printed out as A3 then the drawing should work out at 2mm to the foot. I do intend to tidy up the drawings a bit though, adding some textures on the walls and roof and some boarders etc., so I'll sort this out then. Actually it says "full size" because when a drawing is done in CAD that's how it is drawn as this isn't a problem when it's viewed on a computer screen. Only when it becomes necessary to print out a drawing does scale matter and then it has to be set to suit the size of paper is being used.

 

I can't be 100% sure what the grill were but they appear in photos so I've drawn them in (the ones on the loading bay side are a bit of a guess as I've only a description of these but no photos). I believe they were windows for a celler but one which most likely only extended under a loading platform inside the shed and this would then explain why they don't appear on the track side walls of the shed. My guess is the celler would have been entered by the ground level door in the office and then down some steps. I imagine around 2/3 of the celler would have been below ground level and a 1/3 above ground under this loading platform. That would then leave the windows in this gap between the ground and platform deck so that from inside, they would appear at around head height. Perhaps if anyone has any definitive answers to this however then they could maybe let us know. Also some photos of the shed showing the loading bay side nice if anyone has any, it was all gone by the time of my visit to Delph

 

Regards

Andy

 

Andy,

 

I've got some drawings of the goods shed which show some constructional details, but I'm not sure of their pedigree or accuracy. As you say, the grills were openings into a basement area under the internal platform and office area. It had a floor made from old sleepers, apparently. The odd thing is, there is no obvious way in to this basement shown on the drawings. The ground level door in the office wall, facing the station was an entrance into a lavatory (the windows for this being those in the end wall of the office, near the external steps). The platform is shown to have two rectangular areas shown, which could have been trap doors or lifts - the drawing doesn't show any information. There also appears to have been a gap in the office floor which also opened into the basement, but no steps are shown on either the basement or ground plan drawings. Rather odd.

 

Regards,

 

Dave.

[andyelan]

Hi Everyone

 

Just thought you might like a look at my trackwork and just to avoid being completly upstaged by Gravy Train here's a picture of my station building

 

Joking aside Peter (have I got your name correct) you station model is beautiful. I was wondering how you arrive at it's shape, is it based on photograph or do you have actual dimensions and plans. As I've already explained I've been drawing up the various buildings around the station and I've been finding definitive information quite difficult to come by.

 

Also while on the subject of drawings, I was wondering if any one has any suggestions as to which I should tackle next. When I've finished drawings I'd be happy to share them with anyone who might find them of use so I was wondering if there's anything in particular which might be helpful. I was thinking of having a go at the station masters house next, has anyone got any info on this?

 

Finally, regarding the points at the end of the road over the coal drops, I thougth it might actually have been a left over legacy from the temporary "waterworks line" as shown in the the track plan at the top of page 18 in the Foxline Delph book. anyone care to comment on this

 

All the best

Andy

[Gravy Train]

Hi Andy,

The simple answer is Yes! i have worked from plans/drawings and photographs supplied to me, i must enphasize that from experience i have learned that the drawings are not allways = to the finished building on the prototype as things were changed during the construction.

The drawings are usually a very good guide for basic dimensions, length width etc and 'other' providing they correspond to the photographs as the photos are the proof of what it is or was like determined by the period in question.

In this case the drawings pretty much lined up with the photos.

here a few more blasted over from photobucket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

cheers.

[coachmann]

Finally, regarding the points at the end of the road over the coal drops, I thougth it might actually have been a left over legacy from the temporary "waterworks line" as shown in the the track plan at the top of page 18 in the Foxline Delph book. anyone care to comment on this

Speaking as one of the authors of the Foxline Delph book, it is a leftover from the 'waterworks' line. Personally I'd remove the points on a model and use the loop line as a useful extra siding. I'll bet the real points were overgrown by BR days.

 

Larry G.

[Dave Holt]

Speaking as one of the authors of the Foxline Delph book, it is a leftover from the 'waterworks' line. Personally I'd remove the points on a model and use the loop line as a useful extra siding. I'll bet the real points were overgrown by BR days.

 

Larry G.

 

According to the series of track plans published in the HMRS journal (only have a photocopy which doesn't show a date), the point in question was removed before the 1930's, so whatever it's original purpose, they managed to continue using the coal drops for 30 or so years without it!

Actually, assuming these plans are accurate, the track plan for my layout is a mix of two eras as I have the 1950's goods yard but retained the double slip and tandem turnout off the loop and curved diamond on the running line, to give access to the mill siding. It looks as if in reality, this was simplified in the 50's to a simple LH point straight off the running line. Not as interesting, though?

 

Dave.

[Dave Holt]

Hi Everyone

 

Just thought you might like a look at my trackwork and just to avoid being completly upstaged by Gravy Train here's a picture of my station building

 

Joking aside Peter (have I got your name correct) you station model is beautiful. I was wondering how you arrive at it's shape, is it based on photograph or do you have actual dimensions and plans. As I've already explained I've been drawing up the various buildings around the station and I've been finding definitive information quite difficult to come by.

 

Also while on the subject of drawings, I was wondering if any one has any suggestions as to which I should tackle next. When I've finished drawings I'd be happy to share them with anyone who might find them of use so I was wondering if there's anything in particular which might be helpful. I was thinking of having a go at the station masters house next, has anyone got any info on this?

 

Finally, regarding the points at the end of the road over the coal drops, I thougth it might actually have been a left over legacy from the temporary "waterworks line" as shown in the the track plan at the top of page 18 in the Foxline Delph book. anyone care to comment on this

 

All the best

Andy

 

Andy,

 

Thanks for showing us your work. It's good to see that someone else is doing Delph and it looks like you are well ahead of me - I haven't actually laid any track at all, as yet! I wish you all the very best with the layout and hope you'll keep us abrest of developments.

 

Regarding drawings for buildings and other features, I do have some drawings of the station masters house which were sent to me many years ago by the person who drew them but I don't think I've got the right to publish or distribute these, unfortunately. They were drawn in 1984 and show the building as it was in 1952. There are also some photographs from the Oldham Chronicle, in particular reference OC 59/3423, 59/2887 and 59/3424. I think these may be available from Oldham Local Studies department (located in the old general post office building, near the library). Unfortunately, this rather interesting building (the station masters house, that is) was demolished to make way for road improvements to what was probably a vert difficult junction.

 

On my layout, this building is almost off stage, with perhaps just the gable end in low relief. What would be of more interest to me are: details of the coal drops when they were complete; the row of houses behind the station which loom over it in many of the photos; and, to a lesser extent, Bailey's Mill (I might still replace this with a mill from another location, much to Larry's disgust!)

 

Regards,

 

Dave.