New OO gauge Class 73

[luke_stevens]

You need a MENG to work that out ??

They are painted badly and the wrong colours, seem to run ok, bits fall off and there's no customer service. I could construe that from the above posts.

Unless you go see the factory you can't really comment on it in depth

No, the M.Eng is to understand how small factories work.

 

Dapol is not a huge multinational, they don't have the support services, etc. I am not impressed with their customer service, even just a "thanks for your enquiry" e-mail would help their customer perception. How much difference it would make to the bottom line is a different issue...

 

There is a long time lag between the start of production / purchasing items and the finished ends up rolling out of the factory door. Dapol are unlikely to be in charge of the factory scheduling. They will be told when items are going to be produced. To arrange a pause in production would cost Dapol money. It would also mean that somebody else's item may go introduction earlier than expected. All production will require financial commitments at various points. It may be that a bank will lend them money on the expectation that it will be paid back by a certain point. If we were to go to our bank or mortgage lender and say "by the way, the £100k I was going to give you back in 3 months you now won't get for 9 months" they wouldn't be very happy (and might pull all existing loans).

 

Getting a factory to manufacture something is a risky procedure with many options for things to go horridly wrong in a very expensive way.

 

It's easy to be an armchair general.

 

For background reading I'd recommend: "Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the China Production Game" by Paul Midler.

 

Luke

[Removed a/c]

Hattons have at least 117 in stock (many of them had more than 10 in stock so could only count as 10) and two liveries that have not arrived into stock.

[letterspider]

further to previous posts this is the tally of experiences of RMWebbers with Class 73's as shared on this topic from Jan to May 2016

 

53 purchases of Class 73's - 35 were faulty / buyers were disatisfied (66%)

26 were subsequently returned (49%)

 

I wonder if and when we will see them in Network Rail livery - I hope those will have the PCB sorted out as I have one on order...

[jjb1970]

I get the impression that Dapol are a company pushing the limits of its over draft. I have nothing to support that and it may be grossly unfair, but the way they're pushing products onto the market which are not quite ready, cutting QC and the generally confused messages that have been coming from them are characteristic of what happens when a company is near the end of its access to funding. I hope I'm wrong and fundamentally I think the Class 73 is an excellent model is the QC niggles were addressed but there is no excuse for some of the poor comms from them.

In terms of supply chain management, being able to manage a supply chain is a pretty fundamental requirement if you're a manufacturer, and massively more so if you've outsourced the actual manufacture. Yes it is difficult, but so as most things in business and companies employ people with the appropriate skills to manage these things, or at least they should. If Dapol have cut their QC to try and increase their margins or gain a competitive advantage in terms of product pricing then really they're responsible if the decision bites them on the bum.

[davy crockett]

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=159#.Vy4RV4QrLIU

[Bill]

This company has no shame WHATSOEVER!  Like southernelectric and others I have not received my collectors club model. Nor,despite several phone calls, have I received back my 2 class 73's deposited with Dapol's agent for repair back in January. This together with Hornby BoB and WC Pacifics that regularly fall apart and malfunction has made me  draw stumps on railway modeling as a hobby.  Enough is enough. P*ss poor quality products at ever increasing prices just takes away, for me anyway, any enjoyment in the hobby.So I have spent the day dismantling a layout built up over 15 years packed away locos, rolling stock and buildings and put them away in the loft. Tomorrow I shall break up the base board etc and have a sacrificial  fire upon which I will spit roast a couple of BoB's  in a deeply religious ceremony without any sandalwood I'm afraid.

I will continue to watch these columns free of commitment as an interested spectator.

 

You have my every sympathy... The way I fixed the problem was a twofold strategy...

(1) Start working with O gauge - which has already provided hours of enjoyment as it has a high DIY component.

(2) Start a layout based around Innsbruck or Dresden etc., in HO and narrow gauge HOe / OO9 -

The German /  Austrian stuff seems to work very well as soon as one has learned the basics  and ironed out the surprises...

Like the AC/DC thing... It is another world - they even have some superb US tanks to play with..

It has provided a whole new lease on modelling life..

The Horrors of Hornby, Dapol, Heljan and even Bachmann on occasion, will rapidly disappear in the rear view mirror.

There is nothing like needing a diesel shunter and tracking it down to some town in Russia as it was long out of stock elsewhere in Europe..

The delight when it actually gets delivered, having bet the farm on the fact that Ivan Gudonov would honour the deal.

And then to find out it works better than expected - Priceless...

Its a different world..

[luke_stevens]

A  ) I get the impression that Dapol are a company pushing the limits of its over draft.

 

B  ) "If Dapol have cut their QC to try and increase their margins"

 

C  ) "they're responsible if the decision bites them on the bum."

 

A  ) Yes, sadly I get the same feeling.

 

B  ) Rather than increase a margin, maybe it's just to show a profit?

 

C  ) Maybe they had no choice. I'd rather have a sub-standard 73 now than wait 6 months and not get it at all.

 

I really hope all is well with Dapol but it does feel "fragile".

 

Luke

Edited May 7, 2016 by luke_stevens

[JSpencer]

Given the new ranges announced (black label A4, class 59) and progress being seen on the 68, I am not left thinking Dapol is in a Hornby situation right now, if they were, we would see cheap class 73s.

 

My pair of 73s are still fine after 5 months. I even fitted couplings easily and am contemplating sound for of one of them. This is not to excuse other peoples issues though.

[talisman56]

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=159#.Vy4RV4QrLIU

 

... which, IIRC, has the running number in the wrong font...

 

as in this picture here...

 

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=78425&nseq=2

Edited May 8, 2016 by talisman56

[bertiedog]

A point like the wrong font on numbers is of course very important, but can it be said the one in the preserved line up is "correct".

 

BR re-paints were not that consistent, although I expect they used transfers or masks in later years. I spent long hours trying to find the "correct" livery for a class 20, photos showed at least 15 variations that must have come from local repairs or re-paints at service. the only correct livery is one from a photo taken at the time you wish to model.

 

It is also difficult to know what to say about greens matching the real thing, models do not reflect the real finish anyway, the paints used weathered, a good percentage of the population, and therefore Railway modellers are red/green colour blind to some degree. the only modeller I ever met who could tell any shade of GWR green from another accurately was himself colour blind. he taught himself to see the greens as various shades related to grey.

 

A friend has one of these new Dapol engines and it works fine, given the cab lighting, It did need the pickups cleaned, but ran before, just a bit better clean.

 

One poster said they had running troubles on the same spot of track after attention to the loco, now surely the problem is the track, logic alone says this. I have serviced thousands of locos over the years, and further troubles are the track in most cases. Just because one or more locos run over a section all right is no g/tee others will fail. A few thou up and down can make all the difference.

 

I had a curious case myself, a customer had a new Metrovick Co-Bo, scratchbuilt by me, and all tests on it were fine, it was perfect on the  workshop test track, and was tested at the MRC as well. But he brought it back as failing to run steadily, rocking, and stalling on points. The shop staff took it in, and I checked it over, all was well, except a bit of dust in the bogies, all cleaned out and returned, only to come back with the same complaint. I went around to his apartment in London to return it tested and check it on his track.

 

He said he would put it out and my suspicion was right, he was using set-track on a carpeted floor, a fact he never mentioned in the shop, and we would not have expected due to the very expensive nature of the purchase. The loco lurched over every joint in sight, and the state of the track was poor due to lack of cleaning, which upon enquiry he dismissed as needed as he kept the track in the boxes....you can't help people sometimes, but I did get him to invest in a proper boarded layout, which cured all his other problems with railway models.

 

On DCC and full control of the lights, it would be nice if the designers had done it, but costs do come in, and frankly in the past this sort of minor issue would have been down to the owner to modify or have modified by the retail shop. This was allowed for in the pricing, but get it mail order and discounted and you are really pushing yourself to say, don't worry I will deal with it myself.

 

Legally you do not have to do this, the shop has to satisfy or repair and refund if all else fails. years ago with British production it was easier, thee models were far less complex, and if bought from a shop, then service was there to put things right. The trade did not issue models till things were sorted, we had stores of stuff returned to the makers, none sold, because we had spotted problems.

 

Try doing that with he Chinese, these productions are each a one off deal, that may be repeated in future, and only the importer will see the product before sales start. Few real model railway shops now trade, it is mainly the mail order side that dominates, and where are you going to get the service and attention that a faulty model needs.

 

With the cab lights did Dapol promise they were to be controlled by the DCC chip?

 

What seems to be wrong here is complete lack of communication with the suppliers, and shops not doing their job in pursuing the supplier to correct things.

 

It is plainly obvious if the details are correct that Dapol are unable to run the Collectors club in a normal manner, but even Hornby are backing out of this now, and they had bigger resources than Dapol.

 

I for one will not be buying this model, but then I do not model diesels! but if I did it seems a nice enough model. Bits falling off is another issue that they should address, but can everybody say they handle them with due care? What is wrong is the broken parts in the box, but again if bought from a dealer it would have been opened and test run, and the problem vanishes. Too many of you youngsters do not realise what service in shops used to be, nothing was ever free, you paid in the form of Retail price maintenance. but it covered all the niggles and problems that come up. The bad shops existed they took full price and walked away.

 

We also forget that locos are dirt cheap nowadays... I hear you cry they are too expensive... but in the past, say 1970, it took most customers about a couple of average weeks wages to buy a loco. What's the equivalent now? The Governments figure for Civil servants income, would rate the model at nearly £800, proportionately lower or higher for other jobs, so lets say a generous £500, and Dapol are trying to sell at £100 or so.... therein lies the problem, too much expectation relative to the price. but if you do supply at the price it should indeed work!

 

I am not defending Dapol, that's up to them to do, and the comments here are in good faith from long experience.

 

Stephen.

Edited May 12, 2016 by bertiedog

[New Haven Neil]

One thing - that's not a preserved line-up, it's them as new!

 

Anyone else see the different greens on the 20 and 37?

[159220]

I think these arguments have gone around in circles countless times now. Perhaps this thread should be put to rest as it is not productive and clearly is strongly biased against Dapol.

Perhaps when the second batch of 73s with additional liveries is announced as near to the shops. We can once again pick up from where we left of.

[bertiedog]

Before saying it has been dealt with countless times, this was new to me and I expect to others, this after all a rolling forum, and may well have been read through from the start, but others have not had a chance to comment.

[talisman56]

One thing - that's not a preserved line-up, it's them as new!

 

Anyone else see the different greens on the 20 and 37?

 

Yes, I also noted the same blue on the 'JB' and 'AL6'...

 

The 20 is missing a BR Crest and looks like it's on accomodation bogies - could it be awaiting its top coat(s) paint wise and was rushed out to join the line-up for the photo?

Edited May 13, 2016 by talisman56

[talisman56]

A point like the wrong font on numbers is of course very important, but can it be said the one in the preserved line up is "correct".

 

 

Seeing as the photo is dated October 1965, I don't think that's a preservation line-up.

 

Long experience for me involves remembering the locos when they first came out, including the font of the running numbers - the inclusion of the photo was to provide the evidence for my assertion.

[Nick G]

Anyone re-numbered the GBRf version? How easy do the numbers come off?

[fozzy280472]

I think these arguments have gone around in circles countless times now. Perhaps this thread should be put to rest as it is not productive and clearly is strongly biased against Dapol.

Perhaps when the second batch of 73s with additional liveries is announced as near to the shops. We can once again pick up from where we left of.

I must take up the point "clearly biased against Dapol " , I think that's a little unfair on most of the posters here .

People have parted with a fair amount of cash for a loco that has got some pretty substantial failings and therefore have a right to comment on poor customer service etc.

I don't see it being a Dapol bashing thread just some pretty disappointed modellers.

I have a BR blue one and it suffers from most of the stated maladies of the model and has yet to be rectified by me , it's barely moved in the last couple of months !

I will deal with it as and when .

It seems to me that all manufacturers have had some problems with models they have released , it's just how they follow up these problems that set them apart from Dapol at the moment.

Hornby 31 chassis problems for example.

I own models from Hornby , Bachmann , vitrains and Heljan and will no doubt buy more when they release what I want but I will be cautious about buying Dapol again until I see an upturn in their quality control and customer service.

I'm not sure that's being biased , maybe just a cautious approach to previously poor service.

Just my thoughts ,

Cheers

Paul.

[New Haven Neil]

Yes, I also noted the same blue on the 'JB' and 'AL6'...

 

The 20 is missing a BR Crest and looks like it's on accomodation bogies - could it be awaiting its top coat(s) paint wise and was rushed out to join the line-up for the photo?

 

Yes, good spot, I missed the bogies, which as you say points towards a rushed out job.

[DoverPriory]

As a postscript to my Dapol 73 issues I relate the following: I recently had a 73 returned from repair. As I no longer have a layout I gave it to a mate after putting back its chip. Apparently it ran OKish for a few days then it started to stall on two parts of his layout. Other locos including a (highly temperamental) E4 had  no issues with the track at all! So we spent an hour disassembling it looking for power pick up issues. Couldn't see anything amiss. So put it back together again. Still it p*ssed about at the same 2 spots on the track (both level, clean and straight). Odd thing is - it runs ALMOST perfectly BACKWARDS.............................for the moment anyway!

As a very final postscript: we have set the wheels of both locos with b2b's as wide as possible and they now both run respectably.

We still have to sort out the cab lights - both work permanently on one loco and  the front works permanently on the other.

I think virtually every glued on part of these locos has fallen off with the constant handling they have had.

A cure for the lemon curd yellow ends I suppose will be to weather heavily?

But they are no longer my problem!

 

However my opinion of Dapol remains unchanged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bertiedog]

One thing - that's not a preserved line-up, it's them as new!

 

Anyone else see the different greens on the 20 and 37?

I think a miss understanding, as I meant research on preserved locos generally not specific to the photo

[talisman56]

I think a miss understanding, as I meant research on preserved locos generally not specific to the photo

 

Now that I understand, my recurring bugbear is the Preservation Societies who put an immaculate paint job on a well-restored BR(S) Green Mark 1 coach and then slap a Coaching Roundel on the middle of each side... The SR didn't put Roundels on their green coaches, except the Mark 1s for the 'Royal Wessex'.

[jjb1970]

I must take up the point "clearly biased against Dapol " , I think that's a little unfair on most of the posters here .

People have parted with a fair amount of cash for a loco that has got some pretty substantial failings and therefore have a right to comment on poor customer service etc.

I don't see it being a Dapol bashing thread just some pretty disappointed modellers.

I have a BR blue one and it suffers from most of the stated maladies of the model and has yet to be rectified by me , it's barely moved in the last couple of months !

I will deal with it as and when .

It seems to me that all manufacturers have had some problems with models they have released , it's just how they follow up these problems that set them apart from Dapol at the moment.

Hornby 31 chassis problems for example.

I own models from Hornby , Bachmann , vitrains and Heljan and will no doubt buy more when they release what I want but I will be cautious about buying Dapol again until I see an upturn in their quality control and customer service.

I'm not sure that's being biased , maybe just a cautious approach to previously poor service.

Just my thoughts ,

Cheers

Paul.

Very well put.

 

I have to say that my own 73 seems to work OK and under some lighting conditions the colours like fine (although under other lighting conditions the blue looks purple-ish) but clearly there have been quite a few QC issues.

 

Hornby may have a lot of issues of there own (delete the "may" there...) but they've handled Mazak rot a lot better than most and whilst they can be a little slow responding to requests for help or guidance I've always had good advice in the end (their E-Link people were very helpful indeed). Ditto, my experience with Bachmann is that any time I've e-mailed them a question I've had a reply pretty quickly.

 

I know I'm repeating myself here, but I'll say it again that the Dapol 73 is fundamentally an excellent model. The tooling is superb, lots of lovely detail and nice touches. I think everybody was hoping these would be a knockout release but sadly a few niggly faults and poor QC have let them down.

To point out that a product should be fit for purpose and of merchandisable quality is not bashing Dapol, to me it is if anything positive as I think all of us want Dapol to thrive. However, they won't thrive if some of their recent efforts are indicative of where they're going. Clearly Dapol do have some extremely talented design staff, if they get a grip of QC they could have some real winners.

[wirey33]

I notice that Rails of Sheffield now have the LL and IC versions at £99.50

Edited June 11, 2016 by wirey33

[SRman]

Let's put it this way: even at reduced prices, I'm not buying any more until Dapol *properly* address some of the issues with the first lot. I was in the market to replace all of my Lima/Hornby E-Ds  -I have eight operational ones - that's still approaching £1000 of business Dapol have lost from me alone. While that may be a drop in the bucket to them, if a good few of their other potential customers feel the same way, it all adds up to a rather bigger issue for them.

[Gwiwer]

There might have been two others come here had the various problems not shown up.  I have just the one, and one which wears a more or less correct livery though suffers dropsie of the parts.  I had hoped the standard blue and IC liveries were correct but no.  Therefore perhaps £300 lost from me as well.  These things mount up across the modelling community and being realistic the 73 is not an item likely to appeal to many casual "train-set" purchasers nor would it be stocked in the general hobby shops for the casual buyer of anything that Little Tommy might like for his table-top.

 

I'll stick with the one I have and await Mr. Jones' large electro-diesels in due course with the expectation that they will be far better.