RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 5, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 Rob, the picture in post # 11198 is particularly good for having the shed to the right, unlike your normal views. The MN is lovely, as usual. Looking forward to a photo of "Hellifield shed" with a couple of grotty Black 5s preparing to steam! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Have you ever been to Costa? They have these little wooden coffee stirrers, that are great for cutting down and using as beams. They are only about 1-1.5mm thick, so I had to laminate a couple together to get a decent beam thickness for the roof. The amount of work I put into to making those roof trusses is mind boggling when I stop to think that they would only be seen by the camera with a few opportune "in-shed" photos! Anyway - someone gave me a couple of boxes of the things, so I've got to make a use of them somewhere! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 5, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 They look like a slightly thicker version of ice lolly sticks. Very useful - I assume somebody will sell them....must look in an Art shop or equivalent. As for hidden detail. You may be the only one who knows it's there, but at least you know you did the job properly and can take great pride when somebody picks the item up and goes "wow"! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 5, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 I've thought of something you can be getting on with Jeff, something that doesn't (yet) require any modelling as that is on hold until you come here in two weeks time. A few pages back, you asked about the formation of passenger services on the line and what coaches would be used for those. Expand that to the make-up of your average freight and it seems to me that you can derive many hours of pleasure by looking at photos and trying to ascertain what was used, how the trains were made up, etc. For instance, in 'London Midland - Steam in the Northern Fells' (which I know you have): Page 30 shows 4F 44241 on a down goods. The train is made up of a mixture of 7 & 8 plank wagons (likely to be ex- Private Owner - available from Bachmann in grey with a P prefix, if you don't want to go down the kit building route yet), many of which have tarpaulins covering the load. Mixed in, but very few in number, are a handful of vans; these are placed seemingly randomly throughout the train (rather than all being next to the loco). Page 31, and there is a shot of Fairburn 2-6-4T on a local passenger service which looks to my untrained eye to be made up of Stanier period 3 corridor coaches, the brake being the centre coach. Maybe not the most accurate (as in which exact coaches should be used) but Bachmann do a Fairburn and Hornby do the Stanier period 3 coaches (and very nice they are too). Page 42, Black Five 44675 on the Appleby to Willesden milk train. From the engine back, there are five milk tankers, a BR brake van and a collection of bogie parcels vans on the back Page 44, Black Five 44852 on a pick-up goods heading for Skipton. From the engine back, there is a bogie bolster, three vans, another bogie bolster, a row of tank wagons (not sure what is in them but they look like the ones that Hornby do / did), barrier wagon and brake van. I'm not even modelling the S&C and I enjoyed doing the above I don't think you should buy any more locos this year. Coaches, parcels stock and wagons galore is what you need to be concentrating on. No point having loads of locos if there is nowt for them to pull (unless you have changed your mind and now want to model a shed instead). It's a good job you mentioned this at this moment in time. I've been packing LOADS of books away and most of the railway books are now in boxes, not to be looked at again for the next 6 months! HOWEVER, luckily for me - the book you refer to is one of a small number that I specifically kept apart. How did you know I had that? You must be very observant! I managed to pick up a copy from the NYMR at Grosmont last year. Anyway, I've looked at page 42 - yes, a good idea to forward plan. It's a nice photo, too! As for your last comment. With the amount of money being spent around the house - and resurrecting the layout/bunker - I doubt that much rolling stock will be bought! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 How did I know? Because I brought it up to your house so you could borrow it and you already had it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 As you do, whilst having a ciggie break, I was pondering over the amount of rolling stock that we all have, which nicely leads into another discussion point: Are we all too obsessed with buying shiny locomotives, to the detriment of the far more important rolling stock that their sole purpose (on the real railways) is to haul? We're all guilty of it. Go into a model shop or on a website, see some lovely looking loco that may or may not be suitable for the layout we have / are intending to build, and walk out with our pockets much lighter and a feeling of 'why did I buy that?' Quite a few of us model (or have modelled / are planning to model) small termini, goods yards, etc., where the reality would have been that the principle of one loco in steam and quite often the same loco (or handful of locos) used on the majority of workings, or the same classes of loco used (e.g. for '66 London Midland, Black Five's on freight). But we can't help but buy more and more locos, sometimes exotic ones. And because of this obsession with buying locos, we tend to spend the money on them rather than on wagons, coaches, etc. A really good example is with Modern Image layouts, where you see a vast array of 66's, 37's, etc., stabled at the end of a rationalised branch line that for some unfathomable reason has a TMD. There may be one DMU. Surely, there should be a large number of DMU's and one or two locos (basically, a couple of 66's because let's face it, 37's are as rare as rocking horse nowadays). Another way of looking at it; one (additional) Bachmann 4F is the same price as seven or eight wagons. If we are honest though, if we went into a model shop full of shiny things, where would your money go? Just to show that I am as guilty as the next person, look at the below photo as a rather extreme example. An Austrian narrow gauge shunter in HOe scale. What was I thinking? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 5, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 How did I know? Because I brought it up to your house so you could borrow it and you already had it Clever "%$^*%£^&$£!!!!! Agree with you about rolling stock. I spend far more time thinking about the locos I'm going to buy, and we all run locos round and round our layouts. But wagons etc? Always secondary in my thoughts. HOWEVER, once I DO start buying wagons (and weathering them), it's great fun and I tend to focus on them. Jason, at the end of the day, I think we just like buying and running all types of railway stuff! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm with Jason on the scratch building front - you're going to need a station building right? Well start planning it - you know from building the Viaduct just how addictive it is. You'll get the same from making buildings, I know I do... I guess that's why I've got a Signal Box, a Station Building, Waiting room and now a goods shed before I've even got a proper layout to put them on. I don't even know I was going to have a Goods Yard before I fancied building a Goods Shed you can even go mad and have fun making your own roof beams out of real wood (coffee stirrers) even though they'll never be seen - unless the camera is right in the door post-15693-0-67389600-1386684465.jpg Hi Jeff and all, Some really good points and encouragement in the previous days accounts, makes one want to go and do something....doesn't it!!!! When I scrolled down and came across Freebs post (above) and saw the timber structure I thought is was Jeff having a dry run for the baseboards on KL2, the relief was tangible when reality dawned . As for the coffee sticks just speak nicely to the manager in a fast food outlet (you know the one) tell him the food is the best you have had then ask for some sticks, they usually give you a handful free-gratis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 5, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Hi Jeff and all, Some really good points and encouragement in the previous days accounts, makes one want to go and do something....doesn't it!!!! When I scrolled down and came across Freebs post (above) and saw the timber structure I thought is was Jeff having a dry run for the baseboards on KL2, the relief was tangible when reality dawned . As for the coffee sticks just speak nicely to the manager in a fast food outlet (you know the one) tell him the food is the best you have had then ask for some sticks, they usually give you a handful free-gratis. It certainly does! As for the timbers - well, Lee's wood is only a scale 6" x 6". MUCH too small for me! May not be too many replies from me this evening - off for a mega Chinese. Well, it IS the Chinese New Year..... Jeff Edited February 5, 2014 by Physicsman 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) The locos/coaches/goods wagons ratio is very interesting. Many moons ago, I think "Model Railways" did a series on how many of each you would need on a layout set in LMS late 1930s if you allowed yourself ten locos. The first question was how many would be red? The answer was none but the article allowed just one and the rest would many be 0-6-0s. The coaches number ran into the dozens and the goods stock into the hundreds. I cannot remember the exact figures but it makes you think. Just imagine Bodgit with only ten locos, it would drive him mad! Edited February 5, 2014 by Rowsley17D 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 5, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) The locos/coaches/goods wagons ratio is very interesting. Many moons ago, I think "Model Railways" did a series on how many of each you would need on a layout set in LMS late 1930s if you allowed yourself ten locos. The first question was how many would be red? The answer was none but the article allowed just one and the rest would many be 0-6-0s. The coaches number ran into the dozens and the goods stock into the hundreds. I cannot remember the exact figures but it makes you think. Just imagine Bodgit with only ten locos, it would drive him mad! It would drive ME mad! I can well imagine having a ratio of, say, 1 loco: 100 wagons (in reality). Even if we cut this down to 1:40 for the model, that would mean I'd need nearly 500 wagons if I use 1 loco per road in the new fiddle yard. Even if you cut it down further, where would you store them? I love freight and I have to say it'd make the layout look busy and lifelike. Jason - will you accept a commission to build me 200 Parkside kits? Jeff EDIT: Btw, I DIDN'T know you were lurking...... Edited February 5, 2014 by Physicsman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It would drive ME mad! I can well imagine having a ratio of, say, 1 loco: 100 wagons (in reality). Even if we cut this down to 1:40 for the model, that would mean I'd need nearly 500 wagons if I use 1 loco per road in the new fiddle yard. Even if you cut it down further, where would you store them? I love freight and I have to say it'd make the layout look busy and lifelike. Jason - will you accept a commission to build me 200 Parkside kits? Jeff EDIT: Btw, I DIDN'T know you were lurking...... If Jason is taking on commissions he can add another 100 for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) we have been having a similar sort of conversation on AV, but from a different direction. For a model railway it seems to me and a few others that you should have more loco than rakes. on most layouts you will only ever see two rakes of the same thing passing each other in the night. So you could run around , end to end or whatever and swap the locos only and run it back through with the same rakes. 5 to 1 or 6 to 1 would mean your expensive locos are rotated on different rakes, plus you can run different locos on the same rake. Locos, seem to be far more varied and have shorter lifespans than coaches. How many different locos have ever pulled a mark 1 coach for example. Also how many perfect livery rakes did you ever see in RL? A lot of photos I see have blues and reds and intercity and... mixed together. my 10 penny worth Edited February 5, 2014 by Kal 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) They look like a slightly thicker version of ice lolly sticks. Very useful - I assume somebody will sell them....must look in an Art shop or equivalent. As for hidden detail. You may be the only one who knows it's there, but at least you know you did the job properly and can take great pride when somebody picks the item up and goes "wow"! Jeff NO NO NO :nono: :nono: Macdonals, Kentucky, roadside cafes, most coffee shops. DONT BUY THEM FOR HEAVENS SAKE MAN. I GRAB A HANDFULL EACH TIME I GET A CHANCE. Andy Edited February 5, 2014 by Andrew P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Hi Lee, that's a great building mate, well done. :locomotive: :locomotive: :locomotive: Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Clever "%$^*%£^&$£!!!!! Agree with you about rolling stock. I spend far more time thinking about the locos I'm going to buy, and we all run locos round and round our layouts. But wagons etc? Always secondary in my thoughts. HOWEVER, once I DO start buying wagons (and weathering them), it's great fun and I tend to focus on them. Jason, at the end of the day, I think we just like buying and running all types of railway stuff! Jeff Ref above, and Jason is right, (AGAIN) but also ref to Rob's comment about my shed, I have reserved 3 x Bulleids today, WHY YOU MAY ASK, well because I like them and on shed they will look the Dogs ****** once I have another half a dozed :no: :no: :no: :no: And Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The locos/coaches/goods wagons ratio is very interesting. Many moons ago, I think "Model Railways" did a series on how many of each you would need on a layout set in LMS late 1930s if you allowed yourself ten locos. The first question was how many would be red? The answer was none but the article allowed just one and the rest would many be 0-6-0s. The coaches number ran into the dozens and the goods stock into the hundreds. I cannot remember the exact figures but it makes you think. Just imagine Bodgit with only ten locos, it would drive him mad! The thought of it just frightens me. Locos, Locos, Locos, that's me I'm afraid, However I do have about 150 goods wagons and possibly a dozen or more Parcels Vans, plus some coaching stock. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Hi Rob, Thanks for the Bulleid pics, Today I have reserved Ottery St Mary, Tangmere, and I think its Bibby Line, now just need some, N's, Schools, Q1's and a few Arthurs, Oh and a couple of Green 33's. Andy Maybe this should have gone into the Lounge but its to late now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 It'snot just the number of wagons but the type of wagons as well, depending on what period we depict. In the 50's, a lot of goods were moved in open 5 plank wagons rather than vans, many of them being covered with tarps to keep the weather out. Mineral trains also used a lot of 7 and 8 planked wagons rather than the endless stream of 16 tonners seen in the 60's. then, if you want to move forward to the md to late 70's, there were still 16 tonners about but the numbering had changed to utilise TOPS (I nearly bought a bauxite Covhops the other week until I realised, upon looking at it closely, that the numbering/lettering was TOPS and therefore far too late for the period I model). For me, it does raise a bit of an issue with one of the kits I have yet to build; the Lanky Class 30. All had gone to the great MPD in the sky by 1951 so what do I haul behind it? Do I need to buy a load of ex Private Owner and Big Four liveried wagons ? p.s. I will quite happily knock out a few Parkside kits for you but a hundred? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberdare Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I only have 21 locomtives at this time and can't really see me having much more than 25 in total, I do loke a good mix of coaches though and I will increase the 27 I have up l lot more yet. As for the goods stock I have around 90 odd wagons and intend to scatch-build a few more to get up to around 120. That will probably be enough for my needs especially as more than half of them are yet to be built. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 As you do, whilst having a ciggie break, I was pondering over the amount of rolling stock that we all have, which nicely leads into another discussion point: Are we all too obsessed with buying shiny locomotives, to the detriment of the far more important rolling stock that their sole purpose (on the real railways) is to haul? We're all guilty of it. Go into a model shop or on a website, see some lovely looking loco that may or may not be suitable for the layout we have / are intending to build, and walk out with our pockets much lighter and a feeling of 'why did I buy that?' Quite a few of us model (or have modelled / are planning to model) small termini, goods yards, etc., where the reality would have been that the principle of one loco in steam and quite often the same loco (or handful of locos) used on the majority of workings, or the same classes of loco used (e.g. for '66 London Midland, Black Five's on freight). But we can't help but buy more and more locos, sometimes exotic ones. And because of this obsession with buying locos, we tend to spend the money on them rather than on wagons, coaches, etc. A really good example is with Modern Image layouts, where you see a vast array of 66's, 37's, etc., stabled at the end of a rationalised branch line that for some unfathomable reason has a TMD. There may be one DMU. Surely, there should be a large number of DMU's and one or two locos (basically, a couple of 66's because let's face it, 37's are as rare as rocking horse ###### nowadays). Another way of looking at it; one (additional) Bachmann 4F is the same price as seven or eight wagons. If we are honest though, if we went into a model shop full of shiny things, where would your money go? Just to show that I am as guilty as the next person, look at the below photo as a rather extreme example. An Austrian narrow gauge shunter in HOe scale. What was I thinking? Yes, but rolling stock is BORING. A rebuilt Bulleid or an A3 or even a Jubilee is not... equally, a 1971 Norton 750 Commando was not boring. A 1971 Honda 50 stepthru was boring... Case dismissed. Next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2014 When I was young with my TT layout all I thought about was my next loco. That was what was important and coaches and trucks were just stuff to go behind them. Mind you, I could afford trucks but locos were for presents. Now because the era I am looking at means that locos for me will be difficult, either GWR interlopers or bodged conversions and maybe a scratch build I am concentrating more on coaches and trucks. Someone said that the Cambrian ran mostly 2 plank wagons and some 4 plank. They obviously had not seen any pictures. It is interesting what Jason has said about looking at pictures to make up trains as that is what I will do a bit further down the line. I spent ages looking at Cambrian coaches a while ago and came up with some ideas ans shall continue on looking at Welsh GWR pictures as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted February 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 See Rob that is where I disagree with you. A loco on it's own is boring whereas with a suitable train behind it, it becomes interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 p.s. I will quite happily knock out a few Parkside kits for you but a hundred? It's alright Jason, I'll help... I can have 5 to you by next January... That reminds me - I DO have an upopened Parkside kit in a box in the garage that I haven;t investigated yet - it came with a job-lot of railway goodies from my Dad's partner's late ex-husband (confused? I know I am) He was a big fan of all things Southern, so when I finally sort through it all I may well have some Southern related rolling stock and possibly loco stock for sale if you can think of anyone interested...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 5, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2014 Wow!!!! I should go out more often! Looks like you lot have had a good chin-wag while I've been away. Andy seems to have "post-it-diarrhoea"!!!! Great stuff - what I like to see. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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