RMweb Premium Jason T Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 It took me long enough to lay the ballast on my effort; very happy that I bothered going to the effort I did but would I want to do it on a layout the size of Jeff's? Knowing me, I probably would but it would take a loooooong time and if I was to visit and do it, he'd be sick of the sight of me by three weeks in (two days more likely) and he'd be dragged down the pub every night, the result being that early mornings and late nights in the bunker would be a thing of the past Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 The heat gun was used to merely form undulations in the embankment. Never tried the scorched grass thing. Trackmen deliberately lit fires so it wasn't always engines that caused them. Well known photographer Trevor Owen and I found ourselves in the middle of a grass fire on the Cambrian after 'Hinton Manor' climbed passed us in 1987. The speed at which it surrounded us was amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 15, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hi Jeff, What I actually had in mind was those lineside fires whose blackened remnants were frequently seen trackside caused by hard-working steam loco's. You never see them depicted on a layout (likewise drain covers on station platforms) although now that you've jogged my memory (credit duly given) I've pencilled them in for my own efforts. As for the dreaded Fell, we are in total agreement although I suppose it does have some historical merit for being the only item of BR motive power designed by Vogon's! Lots of fun with the trackwork. That's a stage I enjoy because its there that the layout slowly starts to come to life, although you might like to get Jason (Sandside) round for his ballasting expertise [ ]. Regards Bill You are quite right about the tracklaying. I'm looking forward to it. Still some more board fixing to do before I can start...but soon! Re. ballasting. That's a way off, and it'll be quite a job. Jason has put me (along with a few others) on the trail of Carrs products, which I've never used before. We shall see. Keep suggesting ideas - it's the little details that make the end result look realistic (says he with totally blank baseboards!!). Cheers, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 15, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 It took me long enough to lay the ballast on my effort; very happy that I bothered going to the effort I did but would I want to do it on a layout the size of Jeff's? Knowing me, I probably would but it would take a loooooong time and if I was to visit and do it, he'd be sick of the sight of me by three weeks in (two days more likely) and he'd be dragged down the pub every night, the result being that early mornings and late nights in the bunker would be a thing of the past Lol. Maybe I need a change of routine. My 5am starts have been curtailed as the darker mornings have arrived - 6.20 this morning. I feel like I'm late!! Lol. Ballasting - umm. I'll worry about it when I get there. Maybe sooner than I think, though! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 15, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 The heat gun was used to merely form undulations in the embankment. Never tried the scorched grass thing. Trackmen deliberately lit fires so it wasn't always engines that caused them. Well known photographer Trevor Owen and I found ourselves in the middle of a grass fire on the Cambrian after 'Hinton Manor' climbed passed us in 1987. The speed at which it surrounded us was amazing. I've watched some of the heather-burning fires (from a distance) on the North York Moors - it was a number of years ago, I don't know if they still do them. Staggering the way dry timber burns and spreads. I'm off to do the dreaded weekly shop, then it'll be time to drill a few more screw holes... Hope Greenfield continues to progress! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) I've watched some of the heather-burning fires (from a distance) on the North York Moors - it was a number of years ago, I don't know if they still do them. Staggering the way dry timber burns and spreads. I'm off to do the dreaded weekly shop, then it'll be time to drill a few more screw holes... Hope Greenfield continues to progress! Jeff They still do controlled burning of the moors. The grouse feed on the new growth. The wood yard at the side of the tracks at Darley Dale (Peak Line) caught fire one windy night - just after a Manchester express had passed through. Nothing but wood ash next day, although they rebuilt the yard and it's still there today, unlike most of the Peak Line. Arrrrr, the joys of the supermarket run, hopefully soon to be a thing of the passed once I marry the new SWMBO, as she will be retired and can go when I am at work. Edited October 15, 2012 by Rowsley17D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 15, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hi Jonathan. Supermarket run done - hate it! Now recharging the drill so I can go and put more screws into the baseboards - never thought it'd take so many! Better do it now than when I've track all over the place. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hope Greenfield continues to progress! Me too but it's coach-building time again. Greenfield's next big job requires an 8' X 4' thin sheet of plywood to support a scenic backdrop, but so long I put off ordering the sheet the longer I can get on with some bread 'n butter work..... My own fault for not training to be a teacher....I'd be fully retired now sitting on a wad of pension and savings haha. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Me too but it's coach-building time again. Greenfield's next big job requires an 8' X 4' thin sheet of plywood to support a scenic backdrop, but so long I put off ordering the sheet the longer I can get on with some bread 'n butter work..... My own fault for not training to be a teacher....I'd be fully retired now sitting on a wad of pension and savings haha. ...and the pension from his pre-teaching days . Wot you building Larry? Anything for the LMS coach forum? Edited October 15, 2012 by Rowsley17D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 15, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 Me too but it's coach-building time again. Greenfield's next big job requires an 8' X 4' thin sheet of plywood to support a scenic backdrop, but so long I put off ordering the sheet the longer I can get on with some bread 'n butter work..... My own fault for not training to be a teacher....I'd be fully retired now sitting on a wad of pension and savings haha. Hi Larry. Funny thing is - I NEVER planned to be a teacher...I was working in Nuclear Physics research with the UK Atomic Energy authority. After 7 years I found I'd had enough...drifted into teaching for the next 26 years. Btw, I don't think you can be trained to be a teacher. With Physics, and many other subjects, you can either do the job or you can't. And it's not necessarily a function of how "clever" you are. Some of the most intelligent people I've met have been rubbish when placed in front of 25 students. I sometimes think teaching is a bit like railway modelling. Some people can produce masterpieces on the baseboard - some, no matter how hard they try, can't. I hear you're a bit of a whizz with the coaches...lol. As for the dosh. Well, I haven't got it yet! Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 15, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 ...and the pension from his pre-teaching days . Wot you building Larry? Anything for the LMS coach forum? Let's just say I'm still buying a lottery ticket every week.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 It took me long enough to lay the ballast on my effort; very happy that I bothered going to the effort I did but would I want to do it on a layout the size of Jeff's? Knowing me, I probably would but it would take a loooooong time and if I was to visit and do it, he'd be sick of the sight of me by three weeks in (two days more likely) and he'd be dragged down the pub every night, the result being that early mornings and late nights in the bunker would be a thing of the past Jason OK! I hold my hand up, I detest ballasting! In fact I've just bought one of those Proses Ballasting wotsits in the hopes it makes life easier. I have'nt used it in anger yet but I had a play with a length of Peco and one of SMP and it works pretty well (it's all in the wrist action he says with a knowing wink). Not perhaps such a good idea on reflection as most of my ballast now lives in the vacuum cleaner. Happily I have access to a few thousand tons in the form of the beach at the end of the road, and being a great believer in the old Lancashire tradition of 'owt fer nowt an I'm in wi't bucket' a quick visit to same is imminent! Jeff Probably a bit late but with reference to signalling and your intention to scratchbuild your structures I can thoroughly recommend Railway Signalling and Track Plans by Bob Essery and Scratch-Built Buildings by Paul Bason, both in print and available from Ian Allan Bookshops http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/. In fact the scratch-building one is a British Railway Modelling publication but I've just checked the website and could'nt see it there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 I know what is (or was) in the sand at Morecambe, having lived on the Kent Estuary most of my life. Are you sure it makes good ballast? ;-) As as side note, when we were kids, Mum used to be horrified if we went swimming in the estuary, not because of the quicksand or the bore as she knew we understood those dangers, but because of what was being pumped out of the sewage works at Milnthorpe, and what was officially 'not' being pumped out of Sellafield and Heysham! A bit of a drive from Morecambe but have you ever been up to Roanhead near Barrow (I am positive that Jeff will have)? Miles of the softest, finest, most beautiful sand dunes with an amazing backdrop. We used to drive up there and mess about in the dunes all day long, seeing who could jump the furthest off the highest ones. Happy days 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2012 Happily I have access to a few thousand tons in the form of the beach at the end of the road, and being a great believer in the old Lancashire tradition of 'owt fer nowt an I'm in wi't bucket' a quick visit to same is imminent! Gentlemen, I hate to be a spoil-sport but it's illegal to remove sand, pebbles, stones etc from a beach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 Gentlemen, I hate to be a spoil-sport but it's illegal to remove sand, pebbles, stones etc from a beach. Correct. It is. In which case I'd better return my model beach to the real one from which it came. A handful here and a seaside bucketful there isn't going to make any sort of difference. Those measures are in place to prevent mass erosion or commercial harvesting of beach materials in most cases. If your beach happens to be an SSSI however be very careful of removing anything at all. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted October 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 Believe me, 20 years ago you wouldn't have wanted to remove anything from Morecambe Bay, other than yourself 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 16, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 Jeff Probably a bit late but with reference to signalling and your intention to scratchbuild your structures I can thoroughly recommend Railway Signalling and Track Plans by Bob Essery and Scratch-Built Buildings by Paul Bason, both in print and available from Ian Allan Bookshops http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/. In fact the scratch-building one is a British Railway Modelling publication but I've just checked the website and could'nt see it there. Hi Bill, I've actually just bought a copy of Paul Bason's book - a couple of weeks ago - from Amazon. I hadn't come across the signalling book - will have a look. Anything that can help my understanding is useful. Btw, what gauge is your layout? Going down to Morecambe Bay to get ballast - isn't the shingle a bit coarse?? Lol! Thanks for the info. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 16, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 I know what is (or was) in the sand at Morecambe, having lived on the Kent Estuary most of my life. Are you sure it makes good ballast? ;-) As as side note, when we were kids, Mum used to be horrified if we went swimming in the estuary, not because of the quicksand or the bore as she knew we understood those dangers, but because of what was being pumped out of the sewage works at Milnthorpe, and what was officially 'not' being pumped out of Sellafield and Heysham! A bit of a drive from Morecambe but have you ever been up to Roanhead near Barrow (I am positive that Jeff will have)? Miles of the softest, finest, most beautiful sand dunes with an amazing backdrop. We used to drive up there and mess about in the dunes all day long, seeing who could jump the furthest off the highest ones. Happy days Now you are really getting close to home! Roanhead is 3 miles from where my dad lives - the site of the old quarries that are now large fishing ponds/lakes...where I do my fishing. You're right about the sand dunes and the view over the Duddon estuary to Black Combe and Millom is delightful - on a sunny day (Coniston range of the Lake District further in the background). Jonathan's also correct. Despite the gazillions of tons of sand and pebbles lying around, it is illegal to touch the stuff. I only realised this, a number of years ago, when I went down to Morecambe Bay to load up some boxes of pebbles for a rockery. One of the locals gave me a stern look and said "you should't be doin' that lad". Maybe he was equally concerned about my 1974 Mini, which was nearly grounded under the weight! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 16, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Anyway, chaps. Notwithstanding the old jokes about swimming in the Irish Sea and coming out glowing, due to the crap dumped out by Sellafield... Progress report: It took a LOT more screws than I'd anticipated to secure the baseboards to my satisfaction (they now won't move in a force 15 apocalypse!), but the main boards are ready for tracklaying to commence. Dropper and Cobalt fitting holes will need to be drilled and each section wired and tested individually, step by step. You know the routine... Dental and social commitments preclude work today. So it'll start tomorrow. Yippee!! That'll make Andy P happy - he was asking me when the track was going in before I'd built the subframe!! Lol. I'll post pics as I go along, but there'll be no attached soundtrack which would invariably contain expletives from frustration! Keep the general discussions going, please - it's entertaining and gives me ideas! Cheers, Jeff Edited October 16, 2012 by Physicsman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Somewhere in the stuff I have, are photos of my mom swimming off Sellafield...she lived close enough that the local farmers were some of the ones who dumped milk in '56. "they all used to go swimming there because the water was consistantly warmer there..." (good thing I'm about 20 ft away from our CBRN instructors desks right now...it was "warmer" all right !) Ballasting- I used Woodland Scenes medium gray HO ballast on Long Marton. There's still some bits that need ballasting (two sections of track, I think). One of our local modelers uses sand taken from the Sooke River (may contain gold...), and finds it works quite well. The trick is to use something which appears right...it doesn't need to be right, it just has to look the part. James 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Hi Jeff I hope you find Paul Bason's methods as useful as I have. I work to them consistently now and they really do produce solid structures, probably in keeping with your baseboard building system . Bob Essery as you probably know is an ex-railway man (and fine modeller) and has written a number of books, including works on passenger and goods operation which are also well worth looking out for. My new layout is, or will be, (it's still in the early stages) 00 guage finescale based on my beloved Lancashire and Yorkshire Rly on the Copy Pit route using SMP track. I'm still debating buying pointwork from Marcway or building my own from C&L components. Trouble is, I tend to get distracted by work on the buildings which I enjoy doing above all, so I'll probably still be debating when you've finished your layout! As a keen sea angler I'm well aware of what goes into Morecambe Bay. Indeed, early morning bass fishing on the Pipeline is an olefactory experience never to be forgotten! Morecambe's beaches are a lot cleaner these days though I regret to note that we did lose our Blue Riband label this year. Happily I live at the north end and collect sand from above the high water mark. I also clean it before use and I'm pleased to report no night-time glow or second heads yet (Hello Zaphod!) Two of the local modellers I know also use sand from the beach and they work for the council, so I'm taking that as a sort-of permission. Anyway, if they want it all back I'm afraid they are going to have to make a trip to the USA. I had friends over from Washington this summer and me and they're three-year-old daughter had great fun collecting pebbles which she took back home to "put on her own beach 'cause it does'nt have any". Regards Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I should certainly wash any sand, no matter where it's from! You just don't want any salt or anything else in there that could potentially affect the track, long-term! As to the legality of removing a handful (or a bucket!), how much does the wind and the sea shift every day? I can quite understand not allowing a commercial operation but the odd bucket??? Councils, . . . . . !!! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) ...and the pension from his pre-teaching days . Wot you building Larry? Anything for the LMS coach forum? I'm getting through the final orders for the LMS D1686 non-corridor lavatory composite. As for removing sand from beaches, I wouldnt want to scrape below the surface hereabouts as it's a damned dog loo! Edited October 16, 2012 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 16, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 Well, we DO discuss a lot of matters on this thread - and long may it continue. I've always used Woodland Scenics - usually medium grey blend...as mentioned by James. But this time I'm going to use a mix of N gauge and OO, probably 3:1 looks right, based on experiment. Before I do that I'm going to have a look at some of this Carrs stuff, recommended by Jason and others. Re. Sellafield etc... We used to do a lot of cockle, muscle etc collecting from rockpools when I was a kid. Parents soon put a stop to us eating the stuff once they became aware of (what was then) Windscale's reputation. In the late 50s/early 60s there was more than a chance of a grain of plutonium in amongst the sand. Highly radioactive and extremely toxic! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted October 16, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Mike, I've had a read through the first thread you referenced in post 959 re. signals. Very informative and I think I got most of the ideas. I'll need to go through it a few times, running the ideas through my mind. Particularly like the way you've illustrated it with relevant photos. Damn sight better than most of the crap magazine articles that purport to "clarify" the system. Jeff Edit due to GROSS spelling mistake!! Edited October 16, 2012 by Physicsman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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