Talltim Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 To a certain extent straight instead of flat is a characteristic shared with LGVs (and the Romans!) in that nowadays the raw power (especially on electrified lines) is available to counter the gradients, but curves still cause problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 "Follow the water." was the maxim of Victorian surveyers and civil engineers. Water is always the most level feature in the terrain. All the coal conveyors that worked the Appalachians (PRR, C&O, N&W etc) follow the river valleys up into the mountains and steel river bridges are a key part of the civil engineering furnishings. The NYC famously advertised the 20th Century Limited by saying "Follow the Water Level Route and get a great night's sleep" up the Hudson and across the Erie Canal to the Great Lakes as a competitive advantage compared with the more direct PRR Broadway Limited having to thunder up the main line through Altoona (which I presume is the Alleghenies at that point). While the same civil engineering principles of trying to make cut equal fill were applied, I doubt this was employed as rigorously in north America as it was in Britain. The 19th century railways in Britain were constructed by people with a long heritage as canal builders. (Hence of course 'navvies' from Navigational Canal.) They scrupulously engineered cut = fill to make as level a line as possible. (Brunel perhaps the most famously of all, though that might be due to self-promotion on his part.) Distances in the western states are vast and particularly in the mid-west notoriously flat. In the early days of the westward transcontinental railway, I get the impression there were times when the surveyors were barely ahead of the track-laying crew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2012 I think that there were other pressures that drove the differences. When the UK network was being developed in the 1840's the lines were built through settled land where ownership had often been establised for many hundreds of years. The land was all enclosed and the lines often skirted the edges of built up areas to keep land purchase prices down. Because there was already a partially developed transport system the lines could be started in many places. For the same reasons of expense the cut = fill equation reduced land take. It was only above tunnels in the bleak fells that spoil tips developed. By contrast the western transcons were development tools, built,certainly in the case of the Union/Central Pacific for political reasons to tie the Union together. On the UP the surveyors and graders often worked up to 300 miles in front of the tracklayers. There are still many miles of trackbed in the Promontory Summit area where both railroads graded but the best compromise route was used in the end. They were in many early cases paid for by land grants (though this was not as good as it looks in many cases.) As a result the lines were in many cases built cheaply and then rebuilt later. However some of the routes were superbly engineered, the UP averaged 1 in 500 or less for 500 miles foillowing the Platte valley from the Missouri at Omaha. It only changed to 1 in 65 at Cheyenne to get across the Snowy mountains to avoid a 200 mile detour to get across the Laramie. Much of this was rebuilt by Harriman in the early 20th Century. There were, and still aren't, fences along much of the route and yes they do seem to blend into the landscape. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 They were in many early cases paid for by land grants (though this was not as good as it looks in many cases.) Since the UP was essentially paid by the mile for the original alignment, they helpfully included meanders to increase the total track mileage, not to mention the shennanigans Thomas Durant and Crédit Mobilier got up to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 A UK train seems more like a car and a US train seems more like a truck. That's getting into Loading Gauge territory, but still not a bad analogy at all, since the UK's railways have developed primarily into a Passenger-oriented operation, whereas the US system is overwhelmingly freight-oriented... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=393363&nseq=2 Need I say any more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Looks like a car to me, look, its running down the road and everything... B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 "Follow the water." was the maxim of Victorian surveyers and civil engineers. Water is always the most level feature in the terrain. All the coal conveyors that worked the Appalachians (PRR, C&O, N&W etc) follow the river valleys up into the mountains and steel river bridges are a key part of the civil engineering furnishings. The NYC famously advertised the 20th Century Limited by saying "Follow the Water Level Route and get a great night's sleep" up the Hudson and across the Erie Canal to the Great Lakes as a competitive advantage compared with the more direct PRR Broadway Limited having to thunder up the main line through Altoona (which I presume is the Alleghenies at that point). The PRR followed the water until the mountains intervened, and then just climbed over/through them (yes, it is the Alleghenies at Altoona). If you are ever in south central Pennsylvania, it is worth going up to the Horseshoe Curve above Altoona to get an appreciation for the effort involved to build the railway. It involved moving bits of mountain around so that the 12-mile climb out of Altoona has a maximum grade of only 1.85%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_Curve_(Pennsylvania) Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hey guys, I've only just found this thread. It takes years of practice to ballast like that.....and I've had years of practice. Not intentionally, mind you... Some great pics and video in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Here's a couple that show it off for me: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=228319&nseq=0 (very atmospheric shot too) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2480147 Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You've gotta love those shots (particularly the 1st one with the SD40 hauling the Class 66's) they look like a 7mm loco hauling a bunch of 4mm locos! Were your ears burning, Gordon? A testament to your blood, sweat and tears in getting a nice cess... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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