Matchless Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 OK I'm confused I have just purchased a Dapol 00 Austerity 0-6-0ST WD No.150 'Warrington' however, during some research on the Interweb, as you do, I have also come across Austerity 0-6-0ST WD No.150 'Royal Pioneer'. Further searching found photos of both locos bearing the WD150 number but the different names plates. I have also found references to both locos being at the now closed Dinting Railway Museum at some point. Can anyone shed any light on this please? Cheers, Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchless Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 After a bit more research, I have answered my own question.... 'Warrington' and 'Royal Pioneer' are one and the same, it seems that the loco's name was changed when it was in the care(?) of the Dinting Railway Museum. Though why anyone would want to change the name of a wartime loco is beyond me, maybe Warrington didn't sound 'Army' enough, maybe they didn't know that Warrington was an Army training establishment during WW2 (my father underwent his RASC driver training there in 1943). Apparently Warrington/Royal Pioneer is now owned by the Heritage Shunters Trust based at Rowsely Station at the Peak Rail centre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Dave, The loco was not named Warrington until after the army sold it back to Hunslet, who completely rebuilt it into the form depicted by Dapol. The external difference is the chimney. Royal Pioneer was the name it carried between 6/55 and 4/56 in army service at Bicester. The name was transferred to WD113 when WD150 moved to Kineton as names tended to stay with the army depot. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Apparently Warrington/Royal Pioneer is now owned by the Heritage Shunters Trust based at Rowsely Station at the Peak Rail centre. According to the HST chap I spoke to this morning, the HST do own an Austerity 0-6-0ST but 'Royal Pioneer' ain't it. The Austerity which nowadays carries the name 'Royal Pioneer' (except it wasn't this morning) is currently masquerading as '68013' (one of the C&HPR locos). It carries a plate proclaiming it to have been rebuilt by Hunslet of Leeds as works number 3892 of 196x (the last digit is missing). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchless Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Hi Tony Many thanks for that, it certainly clears that up. A couple of questions if I may; I assume from what you say that WD150 was named Royal Pioneer in 1955 at Bicester? Do we know anything about the loco prior to 1955? After it left Hunslet, do we know where it went and who named it Warrington? I understand that is now carries the name Royal Pioneer again and is owned by the Heritage Shunters Trust based at Peak Rail. What happened to WD113 which carried the name Royal Pioneer? Cheers, Dave. P.S. Oops, that last post by Poor Old Bruce has thrown the cat amongst the pigeons! Isn't research wonderful... Edited February 19, 2012 by Matchless Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 It is all quite simple – honestly! WD 75186 was built by Robert Stephenson & Hawthorns Ltd. as works no. 7136/44 and went to Donnington. In 1951 it was renumbered WD150. In 1955 it went to Bicester where it was named Royal Pioneer. In 1956, it went to Kineton but without the nameplates, which belonged to Bicester. In 1963, it was one of fifteen locos sold to Hunslet who rebuilt it with an underfeed stoker and gas producer system and gave it a new works number, 3892/69. It was then sold to the Bahamas Locomotive Society who moved it to Dinting. I believe it was named Warrington there but I do not know why - mainly because I cannot find the relevant book. It was then sold to the HST. When WD150 moved from Bicester, the nameplates were transferred to WD113 which retained the name until it was scrapped in 1963. The name subsequently went to Andrew Barclay 0-8-0DH 895, which became ARMY 624 in 1968 and was scrapped in 1985. A very useful book on this subject is Locomotives of the Ministry of Defence by R.K. Hateley, published by the Industrial Railway Society. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchless Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Hi Tony So, if I've got this right, the Loco at HST is WD150 'Warrington' - previously named 'Royal Pioneer' in 1955. So, probably named 'Warrington' when it arrived at Dinting, then re-named 'Royal Pioneer' as someone at Dinting knew it's previous history and name. Consequently sold to HST, who believe it is not 'Royal Pioneer' due to that name being given to another loco - WD113. To quote Poor Old Bruce above - "the HST do own an Austerity 0-6-0ST but 'Royal Pioneer' ain't it." are we saying here that in fact it is the original 'Royal Pioneer'/'Warrington' or is it a completely different loco at HST? Looking at the HST website they only list one WD Austerity - 3888 rebuilt in 1964 and the photos that go with this info show a WD Austerity with the number 68006 on the smoke box door. "It is all quite simple – honestly!" Are you sure? Dave Edited February 19, 2012 by Matchless Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The Austerity referred to by Poor Old Bruce is definitely ex-WD150 as shown by the works number Hunslet 3892/69, carrying the name that it previously carried in 1955/6. There are a couple of problems with tracing the Austerities. Firstly, Hunslet allocated new works numbers/dates when they rebuilt the locos in 1964 and presumably removed the original plates. This includes both Austerities at the HST, WD150 (Hunslet 3892/69) and WD139 (Hunslet 3888/64). However, I do not know why the HST website only mentions one of them, Hunslet 3888/64, previously HE 3192/44. Secondly, a number have been allocated numbers in the 68xxx series, even though they were never owned by BR. As mentioned, WD150 is now numbered 68013 and WD196 is still numbered 68011 at Stoomcentrum Maldegem, the number it was given at Longmoor when filming The St Trinian’s Great Train Robbery. I may be biased but I find it hard to justify a preservation society pretending that an ex-army locomotive is really ex-BR when it does not have any of the fittings that the BR locomotives had. After all the work done for this country by the army locomotives, don't they deserve preservation in their own right? Tony 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchless Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Hi Tony Thanks for that, I appriceate your all your helpful comments and information and I have to say I totally agree with your final stament. Being ex-forces myself, like these Austerities, I wish more was being done to preserve them in their true form and celibrate thier contributuion to the country. I for one have taken a keen interest in these locos and, although I am very much in the learning stages, I hope to learn more about them. May have to visit the HST and see if I can have a look at WD150. Cheers, Dave Edited February 19, 2012 by Matchless Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchless Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Update: I have just spoken to the Heritage Shunters Trust this morning and they informed me that they do not own WD150 'Royal Pioneer'. It is owned and operated by Peak Rail. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 For the record, the HST own Hunslet No.3888. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 May have to visit the HST and see if I can have a look at WD150. You only have to visit Peak Rail to see WD150, aka 68013, working most Sundays, topping and tailing with either D8 or 31270. 68013 usually working the Matlock end of the train. While you are at Rowsley though, you might as well visit the HST, if there is anyone there you may get a personal guided tour as I did on Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchless Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Probably popping down this Sunday to see WD150, aka 'The Pretender' Will have a look at HST as well while I'm there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37255 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Just in case you weren't confused enough, I believe I'm right in saying that both WD150 and HE3888 have carried the same 'BR' identity - '68006' - whilst at Peak Rail! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I may be biased but I find it hard to justify a preservation society pretending that an ex-army locomotive is really ex-BR when it does not have any of the fittings that the BR locomotives had. After all the work done for this country by the army locomotives, don't they deserve preservation in their own right? Tony Definitely- I'd always prefer to see an ex-WD/Army Austerity tank (or an ex-NCB one for that matter) wearing a historically accurate and appropriate identity, than dressed up in BR black with a fictitious BR number masquerading as a J94 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainman119 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Being a WD Austerity 0-6-0ST/J94/NCB man for some time now I say HEAR!! HEAR!! Let them show TRUE COLOURS!!!! Trainman 119 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainman119 Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Does anyone know where I may purchase a set of "Royal Pioneer" nameplates in OO 4mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted November 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 8, 2013 As Warrington when at Dinting. Dinting 0-6-0ST Warrington Oct 1969 C146 David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike tugsandsheds Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I was actually a 15 year old volunteer at Dinting and actually Cleaned and Fired on the loco. I have my own Dapol Model of "Warrington" in my collection. Fond memories of giving brake van rides. Shame about the site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37255 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Does anyone know where I may purchase a set of "Royal Pioneer" nameplates in OO 4mm Try http://narrowplanet.co.uk/ - no connection, just a satisfied (repeat) customer. Not always the fastest service, but you get a quality product! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainman119 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Try http://narrowplanet.co.uk/ - no connection, just a satisfied (repeat) customer. Not always the fastest service, but you get a quality product! THANK YOU sooooo much, I have been looking for a dealer like this for over 2 years. Great place for custom nameplates at a REASONABLE rate. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 08/11/2013 at 20:19, mike tugsandsheds said: I was actually a 15 year old volunteer at Dinting and actually Cleaned and Fired on the loco. I have my own Dapol Model of "Warrington" in my collection. Fond memories of giving brake van rides. Shame about the site Actually, I was too from age about 7 - 12 when I used to go there most Sundays with my dad. I also have a Dapol 'Warrington' in my collection. And yes, it is sad to see the place now all overgrown and derelict. Broke my heart when I visited about 12 months ago while up that way. Was nice to see the old original engine shed still stood there solid still, if looking rather forlorn. I remember when it was vibrant and busy (with the cafe next door) and people working on the restoration of Scots Guardsman. Happy days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) The only things you can (almost completely) trust with Austerity tanks are the works number and build date. Not only have industrial owners and preservation owners changed superficial identities on many of them, often more than once, the military was just as bad, renaming locos, and moving the same name between locos. I think the name ‘Sapper’ holds some sort of record, having been applied to six different Austerities, and at least three diesels (possibly more), and I think it may have been applied to one or more pre-Austerity steamers too. All of this under military administration. ’Royal Pioneer’ was applied to at least two Austerities, RSH 7114/1943, and RSH 7136/1944, the latter being ‘Warrington’. Edited February 24, 2022 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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