Esmedune Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 On 22/12/2022 at 15:08, MrWolf said: Another of this season's must haves. Why is the water crane looking brand new? Why is it there at all? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204187265429? Oh that made me chuckle... Where are they going to put the water? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, R. Knowles said: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195260497385 - Not sure if there was a GWR 97xx loco but this one looks like it's taken a rollover.... The 97xx was a version of the 8750 fitted with condensing equipment and LT tripcocks for working over the Hammersmith & City line between Paddington and the GW depot at Smithfield. The original 9700 was a conversion of a 57xx number 8700, later rebuilt to 97xx specification as 9700, and the others, 9701-10, were built new to it. The 8750 production then continued with the 9711-99 series before it's final number allocation in the 96xx series. They may well have worked trains of the toplight Main Line & City stock upcoming from Dapol as far as Moorgate as well, but I could not state this to be fact. Some of these Moorgate services started from outer London stations, so the 97xx would have been capable of hauling them in terms of coal bunker capacity. The kit looks like a rather haphazardly knocked together K's whitemetal body; the description states that it is on a Bachmann chassis. The handrails are dreadful, even a bodger like me could do better, and the buffers are mounted out of level with each other, both ends. No cab window glazing and no rear cab window bars, and no fire-iron hooks on the bunker, or lamp brackets, and I'm pretty sure the BR totems are located too low on the tanks. Both the buffer beams are almost certainly off an LMS 4F. I certainly wouldn't pay £80 beer vouchers for it, but if you really wanted a condensing pannier, it is all there and could be worked up into a decent model, and with the whitemetal body can no doubt 'do a Churchward'; pull two Bachmann panniers backwards. I wouldn't mind betting that a kit this badly made has been superglued or epoxied together, which will help if anyone wants to take it to bits and rebuild it properly... I'd have used a Bachmann 8750 cab and bunker as well as the chassis! Edited December 28, 2022 by The Johnster 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmedune Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 2 hours ago, R. Knowles said: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134380118508 - 3-Car EMU?! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40152 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, The Johnster said: The 97xx was a version of the 8750 fitted with condensing equipment and LT tripcocks for working over the Hammersmith & City line between Paddington and the GW depot at Smithfield. The original 9700 was a conversion of a 57xx number 8700, later rebuilt to 97xx specification as 9700, and the others, 9701-10, were built new to it. The 8750 production then continued with the 9711-99 series before it's final number allocation in the 96xx series. They may well have worked trains of the toplight Main Line & City stock upcoming from Dapol as far as Moorgate as well, but I could not state this to be fact. Some of these Moorgate services started from outer London stations, so the 97xx would have been capable of hauling them in terms of coal bunker capacity. The kit looks like a rather haphazardly knocked together K's whitemetal body; the description states that it is on a Bachmann chassis. The handrails are dreadful, even a bodger like me could do better, and the buffers are mounted out of level with each other, both ends. No cab window glazing and no rear cab window bars, and no fire-iron hooks on the bunker, or lamp brackets, and I'm pretty sure the BR totems are located too low on the tanks. Both the buffer beams are almost certainly off an LMS 4F. I certainly wouldn't pay £80 beer vouchers for it, but if you really wanted a condensing pannier, it is all there and could be worked up into a decent model, and with the whitemetal body can no doubt 'do a Churchward'; pull two Bachmann panniers backwards. I wouldn't mind betting that a kit this badly made has been superglued or epoxied together, which will help if anyone wants to take it to bits and rebuild it properly... I'd have used a Bachmann 8750 cab and bunker as well as the chassis! A slightly cheaper (and slightly smaller!) one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354372616734? Still seems pricey for what looks like some intermediate quality modelling perched on an ageing Triang mechanism. Looking down the seller’s list, the pricing is all over the shop. Some reasonable starting prices, I thought, then my happy bubble burst when I spotted this overpriced specimen: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204171188823? Edited December 28, 2022 by 40152 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, 40152 said: A slightly cheaper (and slightly smaller!) one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354372616734? Still seems pricey for what looks like some intermediate quality modelling perched on an ageing Triang mechanism. Cute! Priced according to a vague realisation that Hornby are getting back into TT, though at a different scale... As for the age of the chassis, if its from when Triang introduced TT3, then it would actually be able to claim the State Pension this March! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2022 9 hours ago, Esmedune said: Oh that made me chuckle... Where are they going to put the water? They’re going to use it to clean off all the mess after it was left too close to the “muckspreader of the year” contest. Cheers Darius 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2022 35 minutes ago, 40152 said: Looking down the seller’s list, the pricing is all over the shop. Some reasonable starting prices, I thought, then my happy bubble burst when I spotted this overpriced specimen: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204171188823? If you want a slightly bigger 31, there's a Triang TT3 version, the auction starts at £45... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364088853916 Pricey! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium SteveyDee68 Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) I’m thinking approx three times more than it is actually worth - and the price has been reduced (check the description as to why!!) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115644377791 HOURS OF FUN!! WAIT!! There’s more… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115632521172 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115632527870 Check the descriptions!! Seller is easy to identify, as he photos his items with a tree in the background! For an even sillier price on an even older model… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125249109005 Collector’s only? After all, from the description there is no guarantee this even runs! Edited December 28, 2022 by SteveyDee68 More examples!! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40152 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 22 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said: For an even sillier price on an even older model… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125249109005 Collector’s only? After all, from the description there is no guarantee this even runs! I like the way this is described as not having left the box (well, the engine anyway), and yet is photographed…..next to the box. Given the price, perhaps this is an example of their thinking outside the box 🤣 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 This 'model' is so bad (even by Tri-ang standards) it should never have got past the draughtsman's drawing board. (IMHO), Hamblings already produced a better version (admittedly at rather a higher price) and the Dublo and Lima versions should've seen the end of it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 2 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: I’m thinking approx three times more than it is actually worth - and the price has been reduced (check the description as to why!!) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115644377791 HOURS OF FUN!! WAIT!! There’s more… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115632521172 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115632527870 Check the descriptions!! Seller is easy to identify, as he photos his items with a tree in the background! For an even sillier price on an even older model… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125249109005 Collector’s only? After all, from the description there is no guarantee this even runs! I like how they are selling the old tooling with in orrect outside frame wheels for prices that more modern inside framed versions can be had for on ebay or hattons. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Il Grifone said: This 'model' is so bad (even by Tri-ang standards) it should never have got past the draughtsman's drawing board. (IMHO), Hamblings already produced a better version (admittedly at rather a higher price) and the Dublo and Lima versions should've seen the end of it. Absolutely agree, and, if asked, would have absolutely agreed when it was introduced in the 50s; even as a small child I'd seen real 08s on Cardiff Docks and it seemed to me that there was no point whatsoever in producing a model that missed the point of the most distinguishing feature of these engines, the outside frame. I was not even aware at that time that inside frame 350hp locks existed, and a few years later when Ian Allan Combined Volumes enlightened me, almost gave the model the benefit of the doubt, but only for a moment. I do not know the Hamblings 08, but was of course familiar with the HD loco in the 60s. I had one in the 80s and found it a lovely model to drive, smooth and with just a tiny bit of overrun that made it the perfect shunting engine. Powerful, too; my complaints were the cab full of motor and overscale coupling rods, repeated on the Lima. Given a choice, I preferred the HD, but the Lima could do the job so long as everything was clean and you were careful with the control knob. Triang, Triang Hornby, and Hornby have successively annoyed me by persisting with this dog over 7 decades, even going to the extent of pointlessly retooling the bodyshell. It still mithered me in quite recent times; a mistake by BRDatabase suggested the 3 08s were allox new to Tondu in 1954, and I found that searching on the Bay for 2h 08s meant that you had to wade through a flood of these useless timewasters before getting to 'proper' 08s. This is the annoyance of poorly modelled RTR; you can't just ignore it, it keeps showing up as secondhand 'bargains'; the same applies to Princesses, Hymeks, 25s, 31s, 37s, Deltics, Bullieds, J50s, 94xx, and more, older toolings from Triang, Triang Hornby, HD, or Lima that don't cut the modern mustard but flooded the market at the time and now get in the way of searches while we weed them out looking for the better replacements. No brake detail, bolier skirts, no space behind splashers and nameplates, scale compromises, wrong bogies, different sized driving wheels on the same loco, older Triang and TH sitting 2mm too high, monster couplings, no cab detail, and on and on. But the dog Triang 08 is the worst, most frequent, and most consistent offender, fit only for landfill even when it was new and judged by contemporary standards. I think I am correct in saying that it was Triang's first diesel locomotive, unless Dokafority and the TCs (what a name for a band!) preceeded it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 28, 2022 The other irritating thing is listing searches full of antiquated old tooling which are have asking prices clearly influenced by the RRP of the modern versions as if they were the same. Bet a few have fallen foul of that one. Don't get me started on the Del Prado and Great Bulbous Lumps landfill rubbish that also pollutes the searches.... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2022 My advice to people not fully aware of all the retoolings is to look at the couplings. If they're not NEM, the model is either an older tooling that has been replaced with a better one or Hornby Railroad, the difference being moot. Buy it by all means, if it's cheap and will serve your needs, but be aware that some research might be needed. NEMs are a good basic general guide, being introduced at a time when most new models were heading towards what we now regard as current standards, but even these are not a faultless indicator. They are fitted to the 'one just before the current model' Hornby large prairie, for example. This is not the worst model of this prototype ever made, having a retooled new design chassis that replaced the original Airfix type that drove the leading coupled wheels with one driving the centre axle, better motor and gears, and a slightly improved retooled Hornby bodyshell from previous Hornby versions that improved the smokebox door by representing it at the correct diameter, but the bodyshell is still basically the old Airfix GMR with the moulded shovel on the tank top and rectangular holes in the bunker to take the locating tabs on the chassis. It comes up at about £50-60 or so on the Bay and is not a bad deal for that price if you can't afford a new Hornby; the solid backed Airfix pony and radial wheels are gone, as is the clear plastic backing that insulated the pickups, and the finish is much better; ISTR there were new buffers as well. So my general advice about NEM couplings as a buying guide holds, just... 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 38 minutes ago, The Johnster said: My advice to people not fully aware of all the retoolings is to look at the couplings. If they're not NEM, the model is either an older tooling that has been replaced with a better one or Hornby Railroad, the difference being moot. Buy it by all means, if it's cheap and will serve your needs, but be aware that some research might be needed. NEMs are a good basic general guide, being introduced at a time when most new models were heading towards what we now regard as current standards, but even these are not a faultless indicator. They are fitted to the 'one just before the current model' Hornby large prairie, for example. This is not the worst model of this prototype ever made, having a retooled new design chassis that replaced the original Airfix type that drove the leading coupled wheels with one driving the centre axle, better motor and gears, and a slightly improved retooled Hornby bodyshell from previous Hornby versions that improved the smokebox door by representing it at the correct diameter, but the bodyshell is still basically the old Airfix GMR with the moulded shovel on the tank top and rectangular holes in the bunker to take the locating tabs on the chassis. It comes up at about £50-60 or so on the Bay and is not a bad deal for that price if you can't afford a new Hornby; the solid backed Airfix pony and radial wheels are gone, as is the clear plastic backing that insulated the pickups, and the finish is much better; ISTR there were new buffers as well. So my general advice about NEM couplings as a buying guide holds, just... But, you are talking to the initiated. Someone who doesn't know the difference will see that as gospel, and, buy it as a present not knowing any different. Because they like trains. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) The Atlas aren't bad for what they are - I bought a few from a local charity shop on an earlier visit to the UK, but they were only £2. The GBLs suffer from being copies of R-T-R (mainly from the last century) and some are better than others. The Tri-ang 08 and S class* saddle tank both suffered from being stretched lengthwise to fit the Jinty chassis and vertically to accomodate the spring in the clockwork versions. My brother received the diesel goods set one Xmas. I gave him the saddle tank body quite quickly.... (4/10d as a spare!). Even then I couldn't abide the horror (or diesels!), IIRC the first Tri-ang diesel was the overscale pseudo (why?) EMD F7? in 1954 followed by the shunter in 1956 and the Dock Authority effort in 1957. (This in its way is almost as bad as her larger sister and seems to be a complete flight of fancy - Trix produced a much better industrial shunter a year or two later, but this model was hampered by the steamroller flanges, which ensured it could only be used on Trix or one of the awful 'universal' tracks. It came with a shunter's truck (GWR style) which wasn't really appropriate for an industrial locomotive and suffered from the continued use of acetate. even Tri-ang had seen the error of their ways by then and switched to polystyrene. * Not claimed as such , but usually so identified - an obscure one-off, which had been scrapped several years previously (1952 IIRC). Edited December 28, 2022 by Il Grifone 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2022 The "Dock Authority" shunter was built as it was to accommodate the TC motor bogie. Its not bad as these things go, apart from the knurled wheels which make a terrible racket! Triang came up with some odd stuff around then, the Steeple Cab loco with the generic 0-4-0 chassis underneath it was another puzzler, especially the red one, which had a plastic pantograph and a hole in the bonnet where the power selection switch was fitted in the green version allowing power to be drawn from either a working pantograph or the track. A bit like Trix Twin, allowing two locos to run on the same piece of track simultaneously, provided you had the Triang catenery set too... http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/rpcset.html Not a prototypically convincing set... 🤪 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 The steeple cab seems to be based on something Swiss (don't quote me on that!), Back in the day I was going to get one and even built some catenary masts for it. This floundered on the unavailability of the wire I intended to use (and lack of the 36/- needed to purchase the locomotive). Just as well, as my flimsy masts would have fallen apart under the stress of the pantograph spring. The Dock Authorities I have (black, red and TC yellow) go like the proverbial bats out of hell.... 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted December 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Il Grifone said: The steeple cab seems to be based on something Swiss (don't quote me on that!), Back in the day I was going to get one and even built some catenary masts for it. This floundered on the unavailability of the wire I intended to use (and lack of the 36/- needed to purchase the locomotive). Just as well, as my flimsy masts would have fallen apart under the stress of the pantograph spring. The Dock Authorities I have (black, red and TC yellow) go like the proverbial bats out of hell.... I've a black DA, one is enough! You can hear it approaching a (scale) mile off... It's not as fast, however, as an early Hornby GWR 101! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmacc Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Replacing the wheels with smooth ones to provide smoother running gives the dock authority lots of potential for freelance or other locos. There’s an excellent such example in the Pugbashing thread. Although fictional, the NBL-esque body gives it plausibility. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Il Grifone said: The Dock Authorities I have (black, red and TC yellow) go like the proverbial bats out of hell.... Don't knock it - that was a selling point! Reminds me of the day when the science teacher came into the lab to find me and another lad staring intently at two of the clocks that we were supposed to use to time experiments. "What do you two think you're up to in here?" I replied "Please sir, we're trying to work out which one is better - and mine is winning by over a second every minute!" 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 29, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2022 Dokafority is not entirely fictional, but loosely based on a New Zealand Bagnall DM. The Deltic cab windows are pure fantasy of course, and the chassis, as has been mentioned, the power bogie from the TC Bo-Bo, is also fictional for the Bagnall. Like the prototype, it is a bulky beast, and on a 00 layout only just scrapes into the loading gauge. I bought one a few years ago off the Bay to use as a Colliery shunter, and filled in most of the Deltic window, replaced the wheels, and cobbled up a control desk for the cab interior. It is pretty quick, but controllable down to a low speed and will pull a house down. I had half-baked ideas of replacing the chassis with a jackshaft driven on, thinking in terms of a modified Nellie, but this sort of fell by the wayside and is in the 'maybe get back to it one day' box. Ultimately, I couldn't resolve the bulk of the loco with what I was trying to achieve, and am currently messing around with a Jouef Playcraft North British shunter in the same way. The 0-4-0 Bagnalls at Port Talbot Steelworks were later builds than this, after the Brush-Bagnall merger, but similar in bulk, way out of the main line loading gauge. The TC Bo-Bo is, ISTR, based off an Australian prototype rather than an EMD F-series, the somewhat less rounded nose and cab window shape giving the game away. The double-ended overhead electric Bo-Bo is much more American in appearance, but something very similar was also used in Oz. I have an idea that the steam prairie tank was a New Zealand prototype and the later Baltic tank Canadian. Hiawatha looked pretty Canadian as well, but the Budd Railcar was, well, a Budd Railcar. The Road Switcher is fairly North American in appearance, but I've no idea what the basis for it was. The Antipodean and Canadian looking models were clearly devised with an eye to the Commonwealth market. As for the steeple cab, there were all sorts of early electric locos that looked as if they had a part in the concept of this one, but it had buffers IIRC, which would suggest a European rather than American influence. 4 hours ago, Hroth said: It's not as fast, however, as an early Hornby GWR 101! I'm not sure that a Higgs-Boson particle is as fast as an early Hornby GWR 101... 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40152 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 Apparently brand new, unopened and all that eBay flannel. So what’s not to like for £22? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115631114332? Mrs RR added a drop too much cooking sherry to the mince pie filling this year, I reckon… 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted December 29, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2022 1 hour ago, 40152 said: Apparently brand new, unopened and all that eBay flannel. So what’s not to like for £22? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115631114332? Mrs RR added a drop too much cooking sherry to the mince pie filling this year, I reckon… Didn't realise that RR were slum landlords too... 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 1 hour ago, 40152 said: Apparently brand new, unopened and all that eBay flannel. So what’s not to like for £22? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115631114332? Mrs RR added a drop too much cooking sherry to the mince pie filling this year, I reckon… They appear to have been affected by subsidence. 2 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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