RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2013 You will note, if read, that I didn't object to, or question the motives of the seller. Heck if I had a loft full of empty boxes (or even full boxes) I would be there with the rest selling what to me has always simply been packaging to dispose of asap. To me, the fact that someone is prepared to pay good money to inflate the appearance/quality/price of a used item just seems dubious at the least. They also often seem to be sold without the moulded inserts, anyway bubble wrap is pretty cheap along with a recycled box from Azda, etc. If I buy something in the manufacturer's box I expect it to be complete AND new (Mint and only exposed for the camera). In fact with a kit I'd rather they didn't open it even to take a photo as all too often parts get disturbed, etches bent and fingered and delicate castings broken. Stunning how many complete DJH kits arrive without wheels when they were originally sold with them! It doesn't usually work like that Kenton (says I having once sold a Dinky Toy box for £21). Many serious collectors want their items to be complete with box and all packing etc - thus replicating/reproducing/maintaining the original ex-shop appearance and condition of the 'whatever it is'. But equally there is a market among collectors - the truly serious ones - to acquire items which are that complete thus 'mint in box' commands a premium price at auction compared with that for an unboxed item in equally good condition. And the better the condition and completeness of the box and packing the higher the price - it is, I suppose, just like any other sort of serious collecting. I saw a pre-war Hornby Dublo box estimated at a 3 figure price in an auction catalogue a while back and the sale price handsomely beat the estimate. However noting your comment about 'missing' wheels the situation is very simple - if an item is described as 'complete' and something is missing then it has clearly been missold, possibly in error or maybe even deliberately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Many serious collectors want their items to be complete with box and all packing etcI've been mistaken all this time I thought real collectors wanted the whole thing to be original literally "mint in original box" unopened and untouched beyond the factory. The thought of them buying a "clean" s/h item and putting it back into a box disposed of by someone else just didn't meet up with my idea of a true collector. Do they admit to this when they sell on the collection or do they continue the deception. Of course in my mind I still see this as the unscrpulous simply making out that something is not what it claims to be. Perhaps I'm too suspicious of folk. However noting your comment about 'missing' wheels the situation is very simple - if an item is described as 'complete' and something is missing then it has clearly been missold, possibly in error or maybe even deliberately.I think that great catch-all caveat is used "appears to be complete" It is one of the first things I look for in photos if the wheels are missing on a DJH kit sale then that's £30-40 of the value. Even though I will probably change the Romfords for AG as a matter of preference, I don't see it so much as misleading as the seller not fully aware of what they have. I quite often contact the seller to point out that a kit came with wheels and often a (useless) motor. The answer often shows up the ignorant from the deceptive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestburyJack Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Don't think this has been mentioned before: Bachmann Collectors Club SECR wagons - still available from BCC at £26.50, okay, you have to join the BCC but even then it's only total £52.50 if you join BCC specially to get these, and then you get the BCC magazines and a free BCC wagon thrown in.... or £67 + £5 P&P from this seller on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-SE-CR-Railway-set-of-three-limited-edition-open-wagons-/251341842477?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3a8524282d#ht_311wt_959 a total of £19.50 more!! Edited September 20, 2013 by garyeagger 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2013 Of course in my mind I still see this as the unscrpulous simply making out that something is not what it claims to be. Perhaps I'm too suspicious of folk. I think that great catch-all caveat is used "appears to be complete" It is one of the first things I look for in photos if the wheels are missing on a DJH kit sale then that's £30-40 of the value. Even though I will probably change the Romfords for AG as a matter of preference, I don't see it so much as misleading as the seller not fully aware of what they have. I quite often contact the seller to point out that a kit came with wheels and often a (useless) motor. The answer often shows up the ignorant from the deceptive. As always, its about separating the uninformed person selling something that they know little about (i.e. selling for a deceased family member or friend) and those professional ebay'ers who know exactly what they're selling, but acting ignorant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
valeofyork Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 More landfill: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heljan-Stripped-Class-57-/161108269950?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2582cd1b7e Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2013 More landfill: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heljan-Stripped-Class-57-/161108269950?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2582cd1b7e I think you're giving landfill a bad name Not sure any landfill would want that for company? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanders Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 More landfill: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heljan-Stripped-Class-57-/161108269950?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2582cd1b7e then used it to test a bit of paint on...not a great success, this has just been left I wouldn't have admitted to that, myself! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2013 More landfill: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heljan-Stripped-Class-57-/161108269950?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2582cd1b7e Professionally weathered? MIke. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Professionally weathered? MIke. With a blowtorch, by the look of it. Mind you it's not that much worse than my first attempt at doing up a loco. I didn't know a toy train could get cellulite! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2013 Well it is a tubby Duff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 I've been mistaken all this time I thought real collectors wanted the whole thing to be original literally "mint in original box" unopened and untouched beyond the factory. The thought of them buying a "clean" s/h item and putting it back into a box disposed of by someone else just didn't meet up with my idea of a true collector. Do they admit to this when they sell on the collection or do they continue the deception. Of course in my mind I still see this as the unscrpulous simply making out that something is not what it claims to be. Perhaps I'm too suspicious of folk. I think that great catch-all caveat is used "appears to be complete" It is one of the first things I look for in photos if the wheels are missing on a DJH kit sale then that's £30-40 of the value. Even though I will probably change the Romfords for AG as a matter of preference, I don't see it so much as misleading as the seller not fully aware of what they have. I quite often contact the seller to point out that a kit came with wheels and often a (useless) motor. The answer often shows up the ignorant from the deceptive. I think the fact that having a box adds value is not in dispute. It is entirely possible that the seller has no idea whether the box is original or not but if the box has the correct insert and the correct label specifying the contents then it is an original box containing an original model. Whether or not the items left the factory like that is a bit irrelevant but if that is important to the buyer then he or she should ask or assume on bidding that it is unlikely. What is certain is that the box value is greater if the box is unmarked and that the value of the item is increased if it is 'originally' boxed. Both values are still seriously affected by age and rarity. Again, i have been party to some very rare and boxed items that have fetched hardly any price because they are bulky and not locomotives. A Mainline coach for instance is worth naff all even when it is boxed and brand new and Lima locomotives don't fetch much more brand new ( and boxed ) than they do second hand ( and boxed ) There are two ways to read a description, one is to look for what is or isn't there and bid accordingly and the other is to ask unending questions of the seller, probably in the last few hours of the bidding and never bid anyway. Experience talking there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2013 I've been mistaken all this time I thought real collectors wanted the whole thing to be original literally "mint in original box" unopened and untouched beyond the factory. The thought of them buying a "clean" s/h item and putting it back into a box disposed of by someone else just didn't meet up with my idea of a true collector. Do they admit to this when they sell on the collection or do they continue the deception. The problem such folk face is in finding something which is wholly original in every respect - so there is a market for things like boxes, inserts, lubricating oil and so on because that is the only way a 'complete' model can be achieved. I get the impression that all the truly serious collectors know each other, know what each other has got and how they got it. It is interesting to listen at auctions to talk about disposal of collections as the 'interested' buying parties always seem to know exactly how and where it was acquired although that applies most particularly in the larger scales. And this generally seems to apply in all areas of serious collecting although I must be honest and say I don't know who owned many of my postcards before I bought them at auction - but several of the dealers do! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2013 Professionally weathered? MIke. Professionally cr*pped on more like......................... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) More of a conversation piece than madness. After endless listers with L@@K - AWESOME - Professionally Weathered' etc etc a new variation. As this (and his others) are BIN 'the system' allows titles to be changed. So he's revised them to start ENDING SOON as the deadline looms. How long before we get LAST CHANCE TO BUY BEFORE CHRISTMAS? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ENDING-SOON-Hornby-RMC-Concrete-Weathered-Orange-PGA-Wagon-Ex-Set-R6154A-EXC-/281155465346?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item41762bf082 Edited September 20, 2013 by Metr0Land 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Professionally cr*pped on more like......................... Cheers, Mick I would worry if my c**p was that colour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
valeofyork Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 How long before we get LAST CHANCE TO BUY BEFORE CHRISTMAS? Don't suggest it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2013 I know it's not UK, but this strikes me as the pits in ebay terms. The product on offer is a brand new N gauge railcar - and the picture is of an HO version by (allegedly) another manufacturer. The Mabar product is N, the pic is Electrotren HO. I do not know the relationship between Electrotren and Mabar, if any, apart from both being Spanish. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MABAR-ABJ1-SNCF-/200965151014?pt=FR_YO_JeuxJouetd_TrainsElectriques&hash=item2eca74d926 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Not a bad return 57/6 new in 1962 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tri-ang-OO-gauge-R358-2-6-0-locomotive-Davy-Crockett-tender-boxed-/121172440612?hash=item1c3670b624&nma=true&si=1uLUOhjm%252F0%252BzIJRU0BU5DO1keEw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_47wt_1255 That one has the early tender with the metal bogies as well. (I have one of these, with a selection of tenders, and the coaches. Nice, and it has a smoke unit! B) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bernard Lamb Posted September 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2013 It was not very long ago that you could hardly give them away. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-OO-R2367-LIVE-STEAM-LNER-A4-LOCO-SILVER-LINK-/200957421508?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2ec9fee7c4 Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhBBob Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 It was not very long ago that you could hardly give them away. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-OO-R2367-LIVE-STEAM-LNER-A4-LOCO-SILVER-LINK-/200957421508?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2ec9fee7c4 Bernard Is that what is meant by 'Ebay Premium Service', then ? Does 24 watchers suggest 'offers' ? No, more like a lot of disappointed folks hoping to sell their own Hornby novelty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
valeofyork Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Is that what is meant by 'Ebay Premium Service', then ? Does 24 watchers suggest 'offers' ? No, more like a lot of disappointed folks hoping to sell their own Hornby novelty Everything Rails sells seems to go for a lot - more than it would do from most other sellers. I've only ever bought a handful of second-hand items from them (some through ebay, some on their website), and wasn't impressed with the most recent - a Class 50 - it wasn't as good as described and there were several small parts missing. I decided to keep it anyway, but did email them to point out the problems and suggesting that they gave me a discount on a future purchase. They did agree to this, but the amount offered wasn't a lot considering the price paid (ironically, I'd put up with paying a high price because I thought they could be relied on!). I've not taken them up on the discount yet - I'm wary of anything second-hand from them now, and for new items - which I've not bought many of recently anyway - I'd prefer to use the local model shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 And thank you for pointing it out, I'm the lucky winner. I had a feeling it would be 'one of ours,' so I refrained. Well done sir! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Well it is a tubby Duff. More like a tabby duff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I get the impression that all the truly serious collectors know each other, know what each other has got and how they got it. I am SO glad I don't know, and am unlikely ever to know this terrifying sector of society. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2013 I am SO glad I don't know, and am unlikely ever to know this terrifying sector on the fringes of society. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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