45059 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 See http://www.flickr.com/groups/cfas/discuss/72157625726740402/ for this. http://www.flickr.com/groups/cfas/discuss/72157625726740402/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-gog Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 http://www.flickr.com/groups/cfas/discuss/72157625726740402/ Yes, the same place with a hyperlink added. I'm doing this from my phone, so it's awkward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUNFOS Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) OK, here we go,have tried to cover everything, plese add any ommision / comments. First remove body by unscrewing 8 underside screws. Remove bogie pivot screws. Unclip sideframes, bit tight on this model, but will unclip. Using Slaters phosphur strip as recomended earlier, bend 2 x loose U shapes around a pair of pliers and 2 x flat Lshapes per bogie. Solder wires to pickups on bogie towers. Spring strips behind wheels against bogie pickup strip. Solder pickups to bogie strip. Refit sideframes then loosen PCB by undoing the 4 screws that have circles around them. 1 each end 2 in middle. Gently pull the PCB away from chassis then snip off the 4 wipers underneath. Thread the bogie wires through the c shape pivot holes in the chassis. Use a spacer to avoid damage to fine wires underneath and solder bogie wires to top of PCB marked L and R Refit bogies ensuring that shaft ends engage in the slots on the end of the motor. Refit PCB, tape wires down and test chassis. The screw on bogies is best tightened up then loosened by 1/4 turn. Test unit, if problems occur with derailment then ease back pickup from behind offending wheel. Refit body and enjoy the performance we should have had! Edited February 6, 2014 by GRUNFOS 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TractorBash Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 So, after 5 minutes investigation, not only do the wheels have a new form of electrical pickup, but they are no longer wired by traditional means to the pcb either. Now using brass contact strips. There is also this one, which makes contact with the motor housing. Not sure what it's purpose is yet. In my experience of fitting pickups, whenever there is metal to metal current collection like this, it is inherently more unreliable than traditional wires. I'm going to clean and tweak these, and see how we go. Still thinking the chip might be playing a part too...I have used the brand before and found them to be of very poor quality. All of this just smacks of cost cutting to me, The new pickup system is obviously quicker, easier, and cheaper from a manufacturing point of view, but at what cost in the long term? Did you manage to get these contacts sorted ?? I've just obtain my second 40141 from hattons after taking the first one back as it was running terribly !! these was is as smooth as anything but still sticks and needs better contacts !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Did you manage to get these contacts sorted ?? I've just obtain my second 40141 from hattons after taking the first one back as it was running terribly !! these was is as smooth as anything but still sticks and needs better contacts !!! Hiya, I did indeed. I Now add a complete set of pickups to the loco, I have modded 5 so far, with a lot more to do. So far they all now run superbly. There is nothing amiss with the drivetrain design, the fault is entirely due to poor pickup design. I am hearing the same story from lots of folk, they have sent away for a replacement, and the replacement performs just as poorly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TractorBash Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 OK, here we go,have tried to cover everything, plese add any ommision / comments. First remove body by unscrewing 8 underside screws. a.jpg Remove bogie pivot screws. b.jpg Unclip sideframes, bit tight on this model, but will unclip. [attachment=379680:d.jpg Cut off wipers from bogie tower. Dont know why this pic has gone to bottom of post, can't seem to move it! b.jpg Using Slaters phosphur strip as recomended earlier, bend 2 x loose U shapes around a pair of pliers and 2 x flat Lshapes per bogie. a.jpg Solder wires to pickups on bogie towers. c.jpg Spring strips behind wheels against bogie pickup strip. d.jpg Solder pickups to bogie strip. e.jpg Refit sideframes then loosen PCB by undoing the 4 screws that have circles around them. 1 each end 2 in middle. f.jpg Gently pull the PCB away from chassis then snip off the 4 wipers underneath. g.jpg Thread the bogie wires through the c shape pivot holes in the chassis. h.jpg Use a spacer to avoid damage to fine wires underneath and solder bogie wires to top of PCB marked L and R i.jpg Refit bogies ensuring that shaft ends engage in the slots on the end of the motor. Refit PCB, tape wires down and test chassis. The screw on bogies is best tightened up then loosened by 1/4 turn. Test unit, if problems occur with derailment then ease back pickup from behind offending wheel. j.jpg Refit body and enjoy the performance we should have had! k.jpg I notice that the soldered on pick up strips seem to be only on one side of the bogie frame (on the underside photo) Is that how it is? I want to be 100% clear on what and how before I even think of attempting it !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tinsley-toton Posted February 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2014 TractorBash Solder them on to both sides of the pick up strips, i.e. 4 strips per loco. T-T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley West Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hiya, I did indeed. I Now add a complete set of pickups to the loco, I have modded 5 so far, with a lot more to do. So far they all now run superbly. There is nothing amiss with the drivetrain design, the fault is entirely due to poor pickup design. I am hearing the same story from lots of folk, they have sent away for a replacement, and the replacement performs just as poorly. That's good to know, Lee. Cheers, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUNFOS Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 TractorBash Solder them on to both sides of the pick up strips, i.e. 4 strips per loco. T-T Yes 4 per bogie, photo was just to show work in progress. Later pic with wires through bogie tower show 2 strips on facing side. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 these was is as smooth as anything but still sticks and needs better contacts !!! Well which one is it........it cant be both??? "As smooth as anything" OR "still sticks and needs better contacts" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIRTY DIESEL Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) That's good to know, Lee. Cheers, Dave Hi Dave, I can comfirm what Lee has said my first loco when back to Bachmann and returned in the same condition as before it went. I then got a replacment sent out from Hattons and suprise, suprise runs like a dog. Pick ups will be added in due course. I'm dreading the arrival of the sound fitted one as that needs constant wheel contact more so that the 40141. Stu Edited February 7, 2014 by DIRTY DIESEL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesfeldian Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 My example runs poorly but I've only tried it on a straight test track (no curves or points yet). It ran fine out of the box but after a few short minutes it ground to a halt. Vigorous pushing too and fro 2 or 3 times gets it going again - for a while. What I don't get is the talk of pick-up mods. The lights on mine are always on so surely current collection from the wheels isn't the issue, just the motor ??? Confused... :scratchhead: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-gog Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I've just put mine on a DC rolling road, and same results. Lights come on, but that's it. Motor shudders a bit, but does no more than that. Hereford Models claim they tested it prior to despatch, but I can't really understand, as if they had done, they'd have found out it's dud. RWJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 27 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Is it possible to fit the new body to the old chassis, if any body has tried this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Did you manage to get these contacts sorted ?? I've just obtain my second 40141 from hattons after taking the first one back as it was running terribly !! these was is as smooth as anything but still sticks and needs better contacts !!! I wonder why they switched to this system. The one the class 37 is perfectly fine. If it is not broke then don,t fix it. The various brass contact stripes is asking for trouble IMHO especially as the loco gets older and grime sets in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Can anyone confirm that they have received and run a good one without the mods as touch wood apart from some minor pivot bogie derailments mine seems fine. Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Pedro32 Posted February 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Can anyone confirm that they have received and run a good one without the mods as touch wood apart from some minor pivot bogie derailments mine seems fine. Richard. Richard, I have two from a well know box shifter which have run perfectly straight from the box. No mods have been required. Both are now run in and continue to operate as expected on dcc. Very happy. Cheers Edited February 8, 2014 by Pedro32 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Being part way through the Bachmann workaround, I would note that there is a prodigious amount of grease in the gear train. There is also a generous clearance between bearing and axle, therefore a good volume of lube gets drawn in with subsequent electrical problems. A good clear out of excess grease to frame and keeper plate is required to prevent repetition of the problem. This could be a latent problem for those not having suffered yet. Indeed when running in my model got worse as lube presumably worked it's way into the bearings. Meths soaked piece of string is ideal for clearing grease from bearings. N Edited February 9, 2014 by neal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted February 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2014 I've just put mine on a DC rolling road, and same results. Lights come on, but that's it. Motor shudders a bit, but does no more than that. Hereford Models claim they tested it prior to despatch, but I can't really understand, as if they had done, they'd have found out it's dud. RWJ I have had nothing but good service from HMC and if they say they tested it I'm sure they have. In my experience a loco with a pick up issue can run well on straight and level track but will show its true colours (ie poor performance) more readily on a rolling road. I think your experience here mirrors that of others on this thread plus the crew at Barwell - the problem isn't obvious until it occurs. I wouldn't doubt HMC's honesty. I speak purely as a satisfied customer. d Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Really shouldn't have to do these mods... Do manufacturers not know of " product recalls " in the model world .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax50046 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I returned mine to a well known Scouse box-shifter, mechanical and pick-up problems affecting it. The replacement has just as poor pick-ups, but this time the moving bits work correctly so i'll accept it's a design fault and carry out the modification demonstrated by Grunfos (many thanks, sir). Can't praise the shop highly enough, sending a replacement immediately no quibble and refunding the considerable postage charge. I'd love to hear what Bachmann intend to do about this long term, it must be extremely embarrassing (and annoying) and I can't see how they'd allow future class 40's to have this design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUNFOS Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Is the problem down to the incorrect lubricant being used rather than the design? I have a numerous fleet from the bachy stable and my 40's are the first I've come across that are not covered in the white goo that covers everything but does not seem to melt when warm, the orange stuff runs over the new pickup arrangement and does not seem to be conductive. I did the conversion because I did not fancy stripping everything down and cleaning only to have to do it again when the loco warmed up and residual grease covered the pickups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_R Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Guess what Andy it has reappeared!?! I have done some tests in DC with the blanking plug in and the results are interesting. As per my original post when the loco failed to respond to the controller the lights are working just as they should – the question is why? Using a multimeter with the body off I checked the continuity from each individual wheel to the brass pickup strip, of the 8 wheels that pick up current only 5 showed continuity. There was no sign of excessive lubrication but just to be sure gave all 8 pickup bushes a clean with contact cleaner, this resulted in 6 wheels giving contact with one of the inner axles refusing to show any sign of contact. Even after some further cleaning the contact from this axle was still very intermittent. Placing the chassis back on my test track there was still no sign of life from the motor. Back on the bench I checked for continuity from the wheels and at the point where the pickups rub on the circuit board and all was fine as were the soldered orange M- and grey M+ connections on the circuit board. The final test was at the brass brush connections on the motor again fine so continuity was there from wheels to motor bushes. I placed the chassis back on the test track, still no sign of life from motor. I did a current check with a dc controller with voltage set at 4 volts and power was there right through to the brass brush connections on the motor. Off the test track I checked the circuit across the 2 motor brush connections and there was no circuit - I am sure a motor has an open circuit unless one the motor poles is faulty? I replaced the body and placed loco back on the test track, still no sign of life from motor but the lights were working fine with the dc controller set at 4 volts. Looking at the underside of the loco there are holes between the fuel tanks and bogies through which you can just see the brass flywheels. Using a small screwdriver I turned the flywheel a little then placed the loco back on the track and away it went as if nothing was wrong! Back on the bench with the loco upside down in a cradle I applied 4 volts to the wheels on and off until there I got no response. Using the screwdriver I turned the flywheel a little and all was fine yet again. I repeated this a few more times with the same results then I placed the loco on the test track and stopped and started it until it failed to respond - lifted it up, turned the flywheel, put it back on the track and away it went. I repeated this 3 more times with the same results. I haven't tried it with the chip in as it appears that the loco only runs in one direction on DC with the chip in!?! From these tests it looks to me like there may be a motor fault with my loco not helped by the poor design of wheel pickups. Update time! My 40 141 arrived back from Bachmann yesterday with a document showing a new motor had been fitted. Very little sign of any lubricant on bushes when checked with a cotton bud so placed it on the DC test track and not a glimmer - no lights no movement at all! Removed the DCC chip and fitted the blanking plug and placed it back on track and it came to life!?! Smooth quiet runner in both directions but as soon as it came to a point it stopped dead. With multi tester connected to the other leg of of the point I tried again and again it stopped but the meter showed a reading indicating a wheel set was shorting out on the point blade. Checked the wheel back to backs and the results in mm are as follows - 14.36 14.39 14.41 14.49 14.53 14.51 14.30 14.36 starting from the fan end so looks like bogie rebuilds with additional pickups and back to backs reset to 14.50mm. It will be a few days before it gets sorted as I'm wielding a paint roller for a few days rather than a screwdriver and soldering iron! Watch this space! Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 40168 leaving Manchester victoria, how the model should sound! http://www.flickr.com/photos/english-electric/12444838805/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tinsley-toton Posted February 11, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2014 Even better if this could be put on a sound chip 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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