Tim Hale Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hi, Happy new year to everyone. At present I am building a 60's diorama of a small coal concentration depot, most used a front loader or even a tractor with a front shovel - however I cannot find anything in 1:76 unless I use the old Airfix JCB without the rear hoe. Any better ideas? Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hi, Happy new year to everyone. At present I am building a 60's diorama of a small coal concentration depot, most used a front loader or even a tractor with a front shovel - however I cannot find anything in 1:76 unless I use the old Airfix JCB without the rear hoe. Any better ideas? Tim Many years ago (circa 1970's) There used to be a diecast of a Cat 920 front loader made by Shinsei that was spot on 1/76 scale. They do come up on e-bay on occasion, expect to pay about £10. They are quite a good model but have the markings as 'stick on' labels and require a bit of paint on the 'chrome' wheels. There might be something in the BW models range of white metal kits as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinkyme Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Tim Have you looked at Langley Models web site, they do a Fordson E27N hi lift front loader tractor or BTD6 Drott Hydraulic Excavator, not cheap.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2012 As an alternative how about fitting the front loader from the Airfix/Dapol JCB to the Oxford Fordson tractor? Oxford make one in 'industrial' yellow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There isn't a lot available, is there? JCB used to do a front-loader only version of the more normal back-hoe fitted one; the rack on which the travese for the hoe was mounted was replaced by a counter-weight. I have seen photos of these in coal merchants' yards, but they weren't common. More common would be either the Fordson-Major with front loader, or one of those grabs built on a back-to-front Fordson chassis (that might be the E27N mentioned above). BW do a 'Gainsborough' front-loader- these were built for the Royal Engineers by what had previously been Aveling-Barford. This is a link to BW's site:- http://www.bwmodels.co.uk The two loaders in the 'Dibles' pages are interesting- the front-loader could be a Muir-Hill or a Bray (both long-departed, I believe) The red crane with grab is a very strange beast; those 'lightening holes' makes me think it's some form of air-portable military kit. It would be most unlikely to use a tracked shovel like a Drott; they play hell with paved surfaces such as the concrete roads in a CCD. Back in the 1960s, my father used to run a Chaseside front-loader; probably built in the 1940s or early 1950s, it eschewed any of this unreliable hydraulic stuff, and relied on cables and winches.. When watching it in action, one could see why JCB were such a success- it looked like something that Roland Emmett and Heath-Robinson might come up with at the end of a heavy session. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thanks guys, A combination of a Fordson + JCB front shovel or the JCB without the back hoe look suitably 'old' whilst the Caterpillar is nice (one on EBay.de) but I am looking at a 'make and mend' type of depot where anything that still worked was used. BTW, have you noticed that no one makes a coal merchants lorry in 4mm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'd go for a Langley Chaseside. http://langleymodels.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_OO_Cranes__Heavy_plant___Road_Machinery___RW1_RW21_29.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'd go for a Langley Chaseside. http://langleymodels...W1_RW21_29.html Crikey- my dad paid about that for the real one.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 An alternative? (If you don't mind using a HO scale item...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thanks guys, A combination of a Fordson + JCB front shovel or the JCB without the back hoe look suitably 'old' whilst the Caterpillar is nice (one on EBay.de) but I am looking at a 'make and mend' type of depot where anything that still worked was used. BTW, have you noticed that no one makes a coal merchants lorry in 4mm? I think you're looking at something like one of the Cooper-Craft Bedford MLs or similar for the period you're talking about; possibly something like a Base-Toys Karrier Bantam (though perhaps a bit modern). My recollection of our coal merchant is that he didn't modernise to a Bedford TK until the early 1970s- I think he had either a Thames Trader or old Bedford until then. By the mid-1970s, most merchants ran TKs, or Ford D series, though some ran BL FGs. Resist the temptation to use an old Matador, QL, or one of the heavier 'civilian' commercials- apart from being too expensive to run, the platforms were too high to comfortably handle loaded 1cwt sacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2012 There isn't a lot available, is there? JCB used to do a front-loader only version of the more normal back-hoe fitted one; the rack on which the travese for the hoe was mounted was replaced by a counter-weight. I have seen photos of these in coal merchants' yards, but they weren't common. More common would be either the Fordson-Major with front loader, or one of those grabs built on a back-to-front Fordson chassis (that might be the E27N mentioned above). JCBs weren't common in the coal business back then for one very good reason - they were expensive, even second or third hand they cost a fair amount of cash and to get that back they needed to be earning money and not sitting around a coal yard for a lot of their time. Plus they were popular with contractors (my uncle had 3 JCB3Cs at one stage as he built up his business) and spares were not cheap. Hence old Fordsons with all sorts of Heath Robinson ideas plus older front loaders were the fare of the coal merchants when they could be bothered to mechanise at all. And forget Drotts - even more expensive than a JCB and a tracked vehicle would soon tear up any hardstanding or reasonably solid ground with the sort of manoeuvring needed in a coal yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 For anyone interested there's a short article on Chaseside bucket loaders in 'Narrow Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review' issue 32. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2012 For the lorry why not use one of the 'Classix' Fordson 4D flatbeds, they even make one in a coal merchants livery. Coal merchants lorries tended to last because of the low mileages most attained. Back in the late 70's a merchant in east London ran a Bedford 'O' and a Dodge, the Bedford was about 30 years old and the Dodge may have been older even possibly pre-war. Both were in immaculate condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb 3c Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Coal yards I've seen were very fond of the Weatherill Hydraulic shovel . These were made from early 1950s so would have come down the food chain to coal yards by the 1960s . There were two very common types one with a rear cab and one with a central cab . Both made by Matchbox in 1-75 range and King Size respectively but neither to 1.76 unfortunately. I think the Dapol JCB would fit ok with a box counterweight on the back , they were made from 1960 on so could be well secondhand by late 1960s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think you're looking at something like one of the Cooper-Craft Bedford MLs or similar for the period you're talking about; possibly something like a Base-Toys Karrier Bantam (though perhaps a bit modern). My recollection of our coal merchant is that he didn't modernise to a Bedford TK until the early 1970s- I think he had either a Thames Trader or old Bedford until then. By the mid-1970s, most merchants ran TKs, or Ford D series, though some ran BL FGs. Resist the temptation to use an old Matador, QL, or one of the heavier 'civilian' commercials- apart from being too expensive to run, the platforms were too high to comfortably handle loaded 1cwt sacks. If we're looking at a flatbed to deliver bagged domestic coal, a Thames Trader would be the first thing that comes to my mind as well- I was born in the mid-60's, so my memories are mainly early 70's, but Traders or FGs were both still pretty common in my neck of the woods.by then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted January 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2012 For a loader I would go for the Fordson/Chaseside from Langley although mention of the Weatherill loader has reminded me of when I had the 'pleasure' of driving one of these http://www.kilkennymotorclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/w1.jpg quite regularly, it would be a lot bigger than the coal yard type, it had a 180hp Leyland engine and the only realistic brakes were to throw it into reverse or drop the bucket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold grandadbob Posted January 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Hello Tim, Can't help with a model but here's a (poor) scan of a slide I took in 1969 of a Neal Pelican that was formerly used for coal by the firm I worked for & then used for aggregates after they sold their coal business. Maybe a project for a kitbash/scratchbuild?-I keep thinking about it then chicken out! Regards Bob Edited January 3, 2012 by grandadbob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Wonderful what you can do with a Forson Major and a Meccano set.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb 3c Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Great pic of the Pelican Bob , a lot of small coal yards had these and i presume they bught them new as they weren't much use for anything else . They had the big advantage that they could reach inside and unload 16t rail wagons unlike front loaders . This is the ex-Sleights coal yard one minus boom which I think the owneR may have fitted to a newer tractor. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2012 A good pic of the concrete counterweight as well. The objects between the counterweight and the radiator that look like fuel cans are also weights, some of the portable weights looked like thin jerrycans and could easily be produced by filing down those from military models. Looks like a fairly easy adaption of the Oxford Fordson Major tractor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold grandadbob Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Thanks jcb, What I failed to mention is that in that photo the bins containing the sand were the original coal bins. The coal siding was behind them-the bricks are standing on the old rails which had been concreted in. The main line was running from left to right behind the grey blocks & bricks at the back of the photo. There is a photo of these bins chock full of coal plus a couple of wagons & lorries taken about 1948 ish (I think) in a book called "A Century & A Quarter" which is currently available secondhand on E-bay. There are quite a lot of photos of the Company's various coal & builders merchants yards showing coal being unloaded,weighed,"humped" & even a guy boiling tar for dressing the coal sacks. Although the book covers the period 1824-1949 most of the buildings & yards still existed in the Sixties (in fact some are still in use today) & I think it would be a help to anyone modelling coal merchants yards. There are also photos of lime works, aggregates quarries, horse drawn vehicles, steam lorries etc. Hope this has been of some interest Regards Bob Edited January 4, 2012 by grandadbob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb 3c Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 If we're looking at a flatbed to deliver bagged domestic coal, a Thames Trader would be the first thing that comes to my mind as well- I was born in the mid-60's, so my memories are mainly early 70's, but Traders or FGs were both still pretty common in my neck of the woods.by then Agree the coal men used the cheaper makes Ford/Bedford/Dodge I've never seen a real life AEC coal lorry but theres loads on layouts .Pocketbond made a perfect 50s/60s coal lorry an Austin with coal sack load -http://www.ehattons.com/21902/Pocketbond_Classix_EM76306_Austin_K2_Compton_s_coal_merchants_flatbed_with_sacks_and_headboard/StockDetail.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Agree the coal men used the cheaper makes Ford/Bedford/Dodge I've never seen a real life AEC coal lorry but theres loads on layouts .Pocketbond made a perfect 50s/60s coal lorry an Austin with coal sack load - http://www.ehattons....tockDetail.aspx The heavyweight wagons were certainly rarities among the coal traders but there were a few. We had one locally with an elderly MkV AEC Mercury (same cab as the 1:43 Dinky Esso Tanker tractor unit) which lasted well into the 1970s, 'might even have been into the 80s. The coal hoppers used for domestic deliveries had a bigger share of heavies, AEC, Albion, Leyland and later, Volvo were all represented locally although they were all the lighter variants in those ranges - Mercury/ Marshall, Clydesdale, Beaver/ Bison and F7 respectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 The heavyweight wagons were certainly rarities among the coal traders but there were a few. We had one locally with an elderly MkV AEC Mercury (same cab as the 1:43 Dinky Esso Tanker tractor unit) which lasted well into the 1970s, 'might even have been into the 80s. The coal hoppers used for domestic deliveries had a bigger share of heavies, AEC, Albion, Leyland and later, Volvo were all represented locally although they were all the lighter variants in those ranges - Mercury/ Marshall, Clydesdale, Beaver/ Bison and F7 respectively. The coal hoppers operated to a greater loaded weight than the flat-beds. Apart from the types you mention, I can recollect Guy (NCB Staffs) and Commer QX/C Series, as well as Dodge 500 series. I believe the hoppers were quite often reused when vehicles were scrapped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class37418stag Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hello everyone I am looking for loader in 1990 to 1993 of diecast model Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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