RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2011 I find large layouts so difficult to take in. The sheer vastness is so intimidating to me that I miss the fine detail. Whereas small layouts can be very jewel-like and exquisite. Personally I enjoy the modelling aspect but operations leave me cold, I'm afraid - maybe because it is too much like hard work? Best, Pete. I tend to agree with you there Pete. I read some of the stuff about operating the layouts and occasionally wilt under the implication that there seem to be piles of paperwork just to shunt a few wagons off at half a dozen places. That sort of thing went out in Britain by the 1920s and irt seems to be an awfully convoluted way of running a railway - let alone a model. But by golly they aren't arf good at building 'operatable' layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yes, Mike. I'm not knocking their abilities at all. At least half my favourite layouts are based in the USA. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 While I suspect that that there are far more people in the US with space to build a basement empire, there must be millions living in smallish apartments, and from trawling various US forums it seems that there are a fair few building small shelf layouts. What does seems to be missing (compared to the UK) is the mid sized portable layouts I live in a condominium so I don't have space for a basement empire. I am fortunate to have some space (about 12 x 12) for a layout, but I am not spending two seconds pondering how it might be made portable. I want to be able to dismantly the layout without wrecking it, and I've given some thought to potential expansion should I move into a bigger house, but portable to go to a show doesn't come into it for me. Model shows in the US are not the same as the UK scene and I doubt too many modelers design a layout with a show in mind (modular stuff excepted). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouser Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I think it is relevant to say that in all countries different modellers have different skill/artistic levels. I have seen layouts on both sides of the pond that are wonderfully realistic and others that are very toy like. I don't think it is possible to have a model railway/train set that will please everybody. The best part of this hobby is that there can usually be found layouts that suit each of us. With reference to Model Railroader I have to agree with the chap who said that they are too focused on the transition era and eastern roads. As someone who prefers modern layouts I frequently feel underserved (I might just have made that word up!) by MR and its annuals and consequently don't buy them. If you like beautifully finished layouts they can be found in such far away places as Australia and Canada as well as the US and UK,and some of the European offerings can be breathtaking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted December 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2011 I find large layouts so difficult to take in. The sheer vastness is so intimidating to me that I miss the fine detail. Whereas small layouts can be very jewel-like and exquisite. Personally I enjoy the modelling aspect but operations leave me cold, I'm afraid - maybe because it is too much like hard work? Best, Pete. Our club layout is quite large enabling quite long trains but there are various lineside industries with switching requirements. I always thought I'd be totally bored with operations but I must admit that testing (I assume the logic was that if I could understand it anyone else could ..) out a car card system was rather fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 See, Tony, I'm not a "Clubber" - having a card system with just one operator, me, is faintly schizophrenic...... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Graff Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Pete, I use the Car card system for my layout, it works really good no matter if I'm operating on my own or with a friend (I've even got my wife to take the throttle). The way that leads to solving the task is very fun and can cause some very intricate switching moves! I have abandoned the fast clock for now however as it wasn't necessary..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted December 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2011 I've always found GMR a bit random on quality and I've been a bit suprised that they haven't talked to someone like Iain Rice to suggest a few UK layouts to include to show the variety and quality that we enjoy at shows. Imagine putting Widnes VY, Diesels in the Duchy, Pempoul or Rowlands Castle in as an example of European modelling. Like several others I find MRP much more interesting as it's got more information on how the US lines actually work as opposed to just being a showcase of modelling. I tend to buy both anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 The comments about the differences in style of layout operation and modelling between the UK and North America (I include our Canadian brethren) hit home for me. I live in a reasonable size California townhouse. However the floor plan is largely windows and other obstructions to turning my guest bedroom or anywhere else into a real layout room (not to mention the female semi-permanent guest who stores herself, all her tons of clothes and female paraphernalia in the guest bedroom.) I live at the moment with a 12 by 2 foot "shunting plank." that somewhat resembles Padstow in Cornwall. (See my thread in Layouts http://www.rmweb.co....he-line-padstow.) I dream of the full basement I once had as a kid in Portland Oregon. But would never give up the weather in the SF Bay Area to move back. I was surprised that when I started to set up a working timetable for the UK prototype layout that I received several comments on this forum that this seemed somewhat novel. I actually set up a spreadsheet with all of the Padstow moves, engines and coach sets with a full sequence. I did not go to the track switching instruction level. I am relocating it to an area in my bedroom where I can extend it to 16 feet and add an 210 degree curve to double back to a staging (I don't fiddle around) yard. I will then be able to stage the 20+ daily 1946-47 Summer weekday train movements at Padstow according to the timetable on a fast clock. Scenery will come, but like my US and NA counterparts, it is not the most important element. Operation is the interest. And I can get two wagons in the length of a 40 foot box car. Double the operating fun. The scenery will be roughed in probably for years (Crumpled kitchen foil spray painted earth colors?). The track may get ballasted. Railway related buildings are the exception and one of my modelling interests. I will add a few movements for a couple of GWR services from Bodmin Road and still be loading china clay at Padstow wharf. This will add more traffic and operating fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 6, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2011 Having just finished flicking through this I would agree that it's not as good as some of the previous issues but for me I enjoy seeing the scope and the ambition that the layout builders have shown. For me this outweighs any modelling deficiencies that might are there. I was very impressed by the use of the tortoise point motor mounted in the loco to turn the driver around dependant on direction of travel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I was very impressed by the use of the tortoise point motor mounted in the loco to turn the driver around dependent on direction of travel. Is that from the April issue???? steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 6, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2011 Is that from the April issue???? steve No joking but I've no idea. I don't normally purchase Model Railroader. I just noticed it in a picture caption about the gauge 1 layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 The different approach between the two countries is shown by the posts that Craig puts on showing the modular setups where the train-cam shows that many of the modules are simply boards with track (often unballasted), an occasional building and nothing else - granted that some of those boards have been very nicely seniced - and the layouts that are exhibited here, and seen on many of the exhibition posts. In fact a lot of the US shows are just that, tables with models on them, for other modellers to admire. Taking intomind that even many clubs in UK do not have room to assemble huge layouts, and the average UK modeller lives in a fairly small, cramped house with little spare space for set5ting up a layout - that is the main reason why small layouts like Inglenooks have developed here in UK, and many attemts have been made to develop scenery to make the best use of them. A stage full of Lionel rack with locos running on what is effectively a floor layout in UK, will attract less attention from anyone but the kids, than a beautifully modelled, and sceniced layout where you will frequently find crowds 3 deep around it, Haston at Glasgow as an example. I've been to the Scaleforum three or four times, and to the EM doo-dah one time. I enjoy the smaller layout and admire the work put into them. But having the space to do things the way we do just leads to different layouts. To my group, the mainline loops are effectively little more than moving scenery to entertain the punters, and a place to string together outrageously long trains. The real fun, to us, occurs on the secondary traffic with switching and so forth. As for lack of ballast/scenery/etc, we'll press most every module into service for sheer bulk rather than wait for all to be finished. I'd reckon that 80% of the mainline modules we showed a month ago were at least ballasted with some scenery; the flyover modules being the worst offenders in non-scenery. I'll also add that there's any number of people here with small shunting sized layouts along the lines of a Mindhiem. Not everybody has a 800 sq foot basement at his disposal. I'm looking at roughly 12 x 28 feet, wanting to stir in a lot of switching with a continuous run loop for mindless entertainment One other comment I'll offer here is that coke plant is owned by one of our group's members...if you look at last year's module show videos you'll pass right through it along with his matching steel mill. The two of them together were huge and were part of a layout that had nearly 600 linear feet in each of the two main line loops. And they were spectacular modules. Sadly the steel mill's been broken up; not sure if the coke plant's much longer for the world. If you have GMR 2006 (I think was the issue) our modular group was in there, albeit with photos that Kalmbach short in 2001! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Yep, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly have been know to exist in both countries, let's move on. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted December 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2011 I waited a while before buying mine as I couldn't remember if I'd pre-ordered (and saved one dollar on shipping!). I clearly hadn't and took myself off to the newsagents to see if they had a copy (they have before) but not this year. Idleness prevented me driving to a WH Smith so I ordered mine from SPV and it turned up in a couple of days. I wasn't too disappointed and found plenty of interest. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 It's almost as if Kalmbach are watching, I've just recieved an e-mail containing a link to a survey asking for feedback on GMR 2012.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Well Gentlemen.. I think there's a Conspiracy of Silence around here.... I saw this in 'Smiffs' yesterday and thought I'd have a look, if only to see the Howlers on the UK layout... How come no-one mentioned the Soo Line layout, then?? Ok it's from the "Old Soo" Era, but all the same...... I now think it's a great issue of GMR... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I take it you had the email re the CV Productions new one??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 Well Gentlemen.. I think there's a Conspiracy of Silence around here.... I saw this in 'Smiffs' yesterday and thought I'd have a look, if only to see the Howlers on the UK layout... How come no-one mentioned the Soo Line layout, then?? Ok it's from the "Old Soo" Era, but all the same...... I now think it's a great issue of GMR... I thought their old HO layout (as featured in MR years ago, was more atmospheric, but that's just me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I take it you had the email re the CV Productions new one??? Yes, a couple of weeks after receiving the DVD itself... I have replied telling Chris I'm eagerly awaiting Volume 2.... Re the "Grosser's Nostalgia Trip", I've got an MR article of their HO version, too. Possibly it's easier to make very realistic scenes in the smaller scales, which may help the 'atmosphere' (not in all cases, though)? I like the Miami G Scale layout, too, and the builder freely admits the influence of Lance Mindheim. To me this one is equally as atmospheric as Lance's East Rail, but it's Lance's that supplies the "Real or Model??" photographs.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmax Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hi F-UnitMad Agree a good issue, like the Miami G Scale layout, especially Pic 6. What i like about the Grossers layout is how they have used the space for the layout, if that was a British layout in 22 x 38, 9 times out of 10 it would just be a roundy roundy. U.S. modellers do tend to think out of the box a lot more than us in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 What i like about the Grossers layout is how they have used the space for the layout, if that was a British layout in 22 x 38, 9 times out of 10 it would just be a roundy roundy.... Very true... I think to some extent that is affected by couplers; US models can negotiate quite tight curves due to having buckeye couplers and no buffers, and they still look like the real thing; UK models can only take tight curves with horrible things like tension-locks which, of course, do not look realistic; if they have scale 3-links and buffers the radii have to be opened up, leading to the sort of basic roundy-roundy we are familiar with. The only thing I wonder about with US layouts with lots of tight curves is how that affects the tractive effort of locos? Having just laid track on quite a large layout (for me, and a very predictable roundy-roundy!!) I've had some interesting experiences in that regard... the tighter the radius, the less cars a loco can pull around it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 And that extra 0.5 mil makes a difference too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 The only thing I wonder about with US layouts with lots of tight curves is how that affects the tractive effort of locos? Having just laid track on quite a large layout (for me, and a very predictable roundy-roundy!!) I've had some interesting experiences in that regard... the tighter the radius, the less cars a loco can pull around it... I've used a 12" radius in HO, and just like the prototype, it caused a few issues. Luckily my train lengths were short, so the worst problem was how to engineer longer cars to go round that radius. Individual railroad operating instructions will contain specific details of locations where longer car lengths will be speed restricted, such as switching moves along street trackage where a 5mph restriction and an observer on each side of the train may be necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Here's a tip for curve radii - don't try running a BLI Centipede on 24" radius curves unless you want all the scenery within six inches of the track to look like a Jordan spreader's been by... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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