Midland Main Line Electrification

[DY444]

On 30/03/2024 at 11:35, DenysW said:

The knitting  is visually complete (at least) as far as Kilsby Bridge.

 

At the B562 crossing just south of the Junction there's no sign of anything new looking north, but looking south there's some HV stuff, but no wires or pylons.

 

Southwards:

 

 

 

I travelled out of St Pancras on Friday, and although I could only see the up line, it looked to me as though there were only two sections devoid of wiring.  One just on the London side of Market Harborough (1 wire run missing, maybe 2 at the most) and the very last bit in the area shown in the picture.  A few bridges being rebuilt and the feeder stations/HV stuff to "wire up" but a vast amount of progress since my last trip along the MML a few months ago. 

Edited April 14 by DY444

[DenysW]

Local (BBC East Midlands) news has the power being switched on today (July 29) to Wigston, and the next stage (to Sileby) announced as a firm plan. Completion to Sheffield now by the early 2030s.

 

A picture showing the problem/opportunity at Leicester station - taken on Platform 4. Do not be concerned about the direction of gravity in Leicester - it seems I wasn't holding the camera level.

 

 

[jamie92208]

36 minutes ago, DenysW said:

Local (BBC East Midlands) news has the power being switched on today (July 29) to Wigston, and the next stage (to Sileby) announced as a firm plan. Completion to Sheffield now by the early 2030s.

 

A picture showing the problem/opportunity at Leicester station - taken on Platform 4. Do not be concerned about the direction of gravity in Leicester - it seems I wasn't holding the camera level.

 

 

That's good news, thanks. 

 

Jamie

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, DenysW said:

Local (BBC East Midlands) news has the power being switched on today (July 29) to Wigston, and the next stage (to Sileby) announced as a firm plan. Completion to Sheffield now by the early 2030s.

 

A picture showing the problem/opportunity at Leicester station - taken on Platform 4. Do not be concerned about the direction of gravity in Leicester - it seems I wasn't holding the camera level.

 

 

 

Having lived in Wigston throughout my schooldays, I struggle to imagine what will be able to use electrification that ends there.

 

A pretty arbitary termination, surely?

 

CJI.

[fezza]

Are the new bimodal trains permitted to switch from electric to diesel power (and vice versa) without slowing significantly or coming to a halt? If so, presumably it doesn't really matter at which precise point the knitting ends?

[Edwin_m]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Having lived in Wigston throughout my schooldays, I struggle to imagine what will be able to use electrification that ends there.

 

A pretty arbitary termination, surely?

The section from Wigston to Syston may (or may not) be significantly re-modelled to increase east-west freight capacity and perhaps provide an extra platform to the east of platform 4.  So it makes sense to defer electrification there until there is some certainty on whether this happens and what it might look like.  

17 minutes ago, fezza said:

Are the new bimodal trains permitted to switch from electric to diesel power (and vice versa) without slowing significantly or coming to a halt? If so, presumably it doesn't really matter at which precise point the knitting ends?

Yes they are and no it doesn't.  It would be more of a problem if it prevented local services going over to EMUs, but London-Sheffield/Nottingham on its own doesn't allow any such conversions.  

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Having lived in Wigston throughout my schooldays, I struggle to imagine what will be able to use electrification that ends there.

 

A pretty arbitary termination, surely?

 

CJI.

 It's only the end of the current project.  Each stage is a separate scheme, the next one will take the wires past Leicester.

 

EMR already has some bi-modes at Derby I believe.  I dont know when they are entering service.  

 

It seems a painfully slow way to do it but hey ho, at least it is happening.  Tight budgets I guess.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

3 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

The section from Wigston to Syston may (or may not) be significantly re-modelled to increase east-west freight capacity and perhaps provide an extra platform to the east of platform 4.  So it makes sense to defer electrification there until there is some certainty on whether this happens and what it might look like.  

There's certainly enough room to restore the four track formation.  I would anticipate the current low speed approach to Leicester to be rebuilt further south in the cutting so higher speed turnouts can be used.

 

Currently northbound services pretty much come to a stop before a final painful crawl into the station.  

Edited July 29 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Edwin_m]

52 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Currently northbound services pretty much come to a stop before a final painful crawl into the station.  

This layout was replaced only a few years ago, which I think increased its speed.  I don't know whether there was any consideration of increasing the clearance under the bridge.  

[DenysW]

4 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

I don't know whether there was any consideration of increasing the clearance under the bridge.  

I believe the 'unexpected' costs of getting the overhead electricity through Leicester and its bridges/tunnels (with their currently limited clearances) was given as the reason for the S. Wigston section running out of funding before reaching Leicester Station.

 

The London Road bridge where the A6 passes in front of Leicester station is gently rising in the direction Platforms 1->4 and beyond, making the tracks that do not presently have platforms less of a clearance challenge than the ones that do. But still not easy/cheap.

 

I see the latest announcement as the answer to a question like 'How far can you get with £250M and 4 years?' (both numbers plucked from the air), rather than the answer to 'How much will it cost to get electricity to Nottingham & Sheffield?'.

[DenysW]

A connected thought. I do trust the (heritage) Great Central crossing just submitted for Planning approval has clearance for the MML knitting at Loughborough. My recollection from the 1960s/1970s is not good as to clearance, I just remember the bridge support intruding onto the Midland platform. I then saw earlier photos that showed that this was in turn the result of a platform extension on the MML.

[JohnKS]

Quote

A connected thought. I do trust the (heritage) Great Central crossing just submitted for Planning approval has clearance for the MML knitting at Loughborough. My recollection from the 1960s/1970s is not good as to clearance, I just remember the bridge support intruding onto the Midland platform. I then saw earlier photos that showed that this was in turn the result of a platform extension on the MML.

The planning application just submitted by the GCR relates to the section between the canal bridge just north of Loughborough Central Station to the bridge over the MML. A completely new bridge over the MML is already in place. It was built some years ago to a design agreed with Network Rail and has sufficient clearance etc if and when that part of the MML is electrified. 

Edited July 29 by JohnKS
Insert quote

[griffgriff]

Nice and tall.

 

Griff

[AMJ]

Comments about changing over from diesel/electric on the move reminds me of a comment I heard that another operator could do so however they don't due to concerns about the pan getting tangled into the knitting. They seem to prefer to do so whilst taking on passengers at a station stop.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, AMJ said:

Comments about changing over from diesel/electric on the move reminds me of a comment I heard that another operator could do so however they don't due to concerns about the pan getting tangled into the knitting. They seem to prefer to do so whilst taking on passengers at a station stop.

Having seen the way things are done on the European mainland (and on Eurostars) it used to make me laugh watching passenger trains come to a stand on the bank at North Pole almost directly opposite the Eurostar depot to do static change in what in railway terms could almost be called 'the middle of nowhere'. 

[Chris116]

19 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Having seen the way things are done on the European mainland (and on Eurostars) it used to make me laugh watching passenger trains come to a stand on the bank at North Pole almost directly opposite the Eurostar depot to do static change in what in railway terms could almost be called 'the middle of nowhere'. 

If London Overground rebuilt the station that was near that point they could make use of the stop by serving an area without good rail connections.

[The Stationmaster]

9 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

If London Overground rebuilt the station that was near that point they could make use of the stop by serving an area without good rail connections.

This was of course before the route was taken over by the Overground.  

 

In any case the site of St Quintin Park & Wormwood Scrubs station is effectively land locked nowadays by housing on the north east side and other buildings on the south west side which is presumably why it wasn't recreated - unlike Shepherds Bush station, on the site of Uxbridge Road station (which isn't exactly well sited but is in a much more built up area)

[Edwin_m]

4 hours ago, AMJ said:

Comments about changing over from diesel/electric on the move reminds me of a comment I heard that another operator could do so however they don't due to concerns about the pan getting tangled into the knitting. They seem to prefer to do so whilst taking on passengers at a station stop.

The 80x units use beacons on the track to trigger pantograph raise/lower and also diesel startup.  

[griffgriff]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

This was of course before the route was taken over by the Overground.  

 

In any case the site of St Quintin Park & Wormwood Scrubs station is effectively land locked nowadays by housing on the north east side and other buildings on the south west side which is presumably why it wasn't recreated - unlike Shepherds Bush station, on the site of Uxbridge Road station (which isn't exactly well sited but is in a much more built up area)

… but those houses could be marketed by estate agents as Paris ouest 🤪

[ess1uk]

So the OLE is energised, but what can use it?

when are the new units going to be in service?

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, ess1uk said:

So the OLE is energised, but what can use it?

when are the new units going to be in service?

According to a press release  today the new bi modes are out on test for crew training and testing with entry into service early 2025.

 

Jamie

[stivesnick]

Once the new bi-mode trains are in service, there will be the question of what to do the current Class 222 units. Will they go to open access operators or will the Government use them to strengthen Cross Country services? A 7 coach Class 222 would have a lot more seats than a 4 coach Class 220 unit, especially if one of the first class coaches is converted to standard class seating.

 

Nick 

[DenysW]

17 hours ago, stivesnick said:

A 7 coach Class 222

With rare exceptions (of the "Did I really see that?" type) EMR seem to run 5 coach sets, and 2*5 coach sets, rather than 7.

 

On a recent journey, first had been converted to Standard class by putting macassars onto the larger First seats that reassured you you weren't going to have to pay more.

[jamie92208]

Here's the link to the item that I saw.  As far as I know the coaches are shorter than the other 800's due to gauging issues. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/e4XbpYwDB8bCX9sm/

 

Jamie 

[Edwin_m]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

Here's the link to the item that I saw.  As far as I know the coaches are shorter than the other 800's due to gauging issues. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/e4XbpYwDB8bCX9sm/

 

Jamie 

I believe the shorter length is so two five-car units can fit in the platforms at St Pancras.