RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 7 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7 24 minutes ago, MartinRS said: When the sign was changed to Welsh did the locals celebrate with a bottle of Felinfoel? Welsh Brewers more likely in the Gent Valleys; Feeling Foul is more a Llanelli thing. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) Llanelly! Edited February 7 by Steamport Southport 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 54 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Llanelly! Its the men off the telly! (Don't know why I said that, but it feels good) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Rhymes with Kidwelly 🙃 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 (edited) 🎵Oh I…. ’ad a cousin Rupert he played outside-half for Newport in the game against Llanelli someone kicked him in the belli did you ever saw, did you…🎵 Edited February 8 by The Johnster 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 19 hours ago, The Johnster said: This earworm of which you speak, does it go:- diddly dum diddly dum diddly dum diddly dum diddly dum diddly dum diddlydum diddly dum wooooooooooooo oooooooooooo diddly dum diddly dum wooooooooooooo oooooooooooo… Right, you asked for it. What does the fox say? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 (edited) 21 hours ago, DavidB-AU said: Right, you asked for it. What does the fox say? Generally, they bark, whine, growl, and howl. When they're feeling their oats, they scream. Good, eh? Paul Gambaccini doesn't like them screaming... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68244820 Edited February 8 by Hroth Extra! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted February 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8 8 hours ago, The Johnster said: ’ad a cousin Rupert he played outside-half for Newport i'd forgotten that Newport rhymes with Rupert, but then it's over thirty years since I left mummersher and I've forgotten how to talk tidy. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 hours ago, Welchester said: i'd forgotten that Newport rhymes with Rupert, .... That must heavily depend on your accent. They don't rhyme when I say them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 Gwent accent; Newport is spoken 'Newput', and Rupert is 'Ruput', perfect rhyme. Roundabout is 'Rowndabut' The tune is from the folk song 'Cosher Bailey', very much rooted in northern Gwent, which ridicules the infamous Blaenafon ironmaster Crawshay Bailey. He was the archetypical Industrial Revolution evil boss, and aware enough of his workers' opinion of him to build the last fortified house in the UK in case he needed to defend himself against uprisings, which he sometimes did... Even the Crawshays of Merthyr, related to him, though he was a bit extreme. Not a nice man, perhaps the inspiration for 'captalism red in tooth and claw'. 🎶 'Cosher Bailey 'ad an engine and 'is engine wouldn go so 'e pulled it with a string all the way to Nantyglo did you ever saw did you ever saw did you ever saw such a funny thing before'🎵 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 40 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Gwent accent; Newport is spoken 'Newput', and Rupert is 'Ruput', perfect rhyme. Roundabout is 'Rowndabut' The tune is from the folk song 'Cosher Bailey', very much rooted in northern Gwent, which ridicules the infamous Blaenafon ironmaster Crawshay Bailey. He was the archetypical Industrial Revolution evil boss, and aware enough of his workers' opinion of him to build the last fortified house in the UK in case he needed to defend himself against uprisings, which he sometimes did... Even the Crawshays of Merthyr, related to him, though he was a bit extreme. Not a nice man, perhaps the inspiration for 'captalism red in tooth and claw'. 🎶 'Cosher Bailey 'ad an engine and 'is engine wouldn go so 'e pulled it with a string all the way to Nantyglo did you ever saw did you ever saw did you ever saw such a funny thing before'🎵 I've never actually heard it, but I remember it being mentioned in Robert Graves "Goodbye to All That". I think that Mr Graves didn't really understand what it was about... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 It's one of those songs that have been bowdlerised into so many versions over nearly two centuries (and of course it may have existed in some unrecorded form before that, and 'Cosher Bailey' is itself not the original) that it is difficult to objectively isolate a definitive version. nor should one try IMHO, the thing is a living organism developing over time; verses concerning rugby such as the Newput/Rewput example have been added over the years, and 'oh I have a brother Mike and 'e rides a motor bike' can hardly be original. My mum remembers this from her Valleys childhood in the 1920s. The tune and 'did you ever saw' chorus are common to all, and it has spread throughout South Wales from it's Gwent Top homeland; there is even a 'St Fagan's Pullman' version which I wish I could remember all of. Samples include:- 'As we pass by Canton shed we see two Castles standing dead' 'As we pass by Leckwith Junction the injector will not function so I prime it with some water and it then does what it oughter' 'Oh and then we get to Creigau where I thought I saw a tiger but I must have been mistaken oh, whatever have I taken?' and much more in similar vein... 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Johnster said: Gwent accent; Newport is spoken 'Newput', and Rupert is 'Ruput', perfect rhyme. Roundabout is 'Rowndabut' The tune is from the folk song 'Cosher Bailey', very much rooted in northern Gwent, which ridicules the infamous Blaenafon ironmaster Crawshay Bailey. He was the archetypical Industrial Revolution evil boss, and aware enough of his workers' opinion of him to build the last fortified house in the UK in case he needed to defend himself against uprisings, which he sometimes did... Even the Crawshays of Merthyr, related to him, though he was a bit extreme. Not a nice man, perhaps the inspiration for 'captalism red in tooth and claw'. 🎶 'Cosher Bailey 'ad an engine and 'is engine wouldn go so 'e pulled it with a string all the way to Nantyglo did you ever saw did you ever saw did you ever saw such a funny thing before'🎵 "Now on a hill in Brecon is Crawshay's ruined house It blackens out the green of the valley And on his battered grave is the epitaph they gave It stands there, God forgive him! Forgive him! Forgive him! And all who rot in hell with him" Andi Edited February 8 by Dagworth 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted February 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, Hroth said: I've never actually heard it, but I remember it being mentioned in Robert Graves "Goodbye to All That". I think that Mr Graves didn't really understand what it was about... Also quoted in a novel by Anthony Burgess. I think it was Any Old Iron. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post The Johnster Posted February 9 RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted February 9 (edited) I suspect the grave mentioned is that of the Cyfarthfa Ironmaster Richard Crawshay. He was not quite cut from the same cloth as Cosher, who gave himself droit de seignneur on his workers' wives and daughters in exchange for employment and was more than happy to have anyone causing him problems quietly done away with and disposed of in the waste tip. Richard Crawshay's house was Cyfarthfa Castle, more a luxury mansion than an actually defendable building, which is actually in Glamorgan by a few yards, the border being Cefn Coed bridge over the Taf Fawr on the Brecon Road just to the north of Cyfarthfa Castle's main entrance. The workers' institute has a clock tower visible from the Castle, but has no clock on that side because they refused to give him the time of day... There was a slum area owned by him and rented to the workers called 'China', roughly where the bus station is now. It was situated between a churchyard and the river, and because there was no drainage, which as landowner he was responsible for providing, in heavy rain the churchyard would flood and the residents of China lived quite literally in the slurry of their own dead. It was, as were other areas of the town, a breeding ground for Cholera and consumption was ever-present. He threw a party at Cyfarthfa in 1829 which was reported as costing him £2,000, more than a million now, which would easily have provided proper drainage and sewerage systems for the entire town. Merthyr was by a considerable margin the largest town in Wales at that time, and growing rapidly, but had no mayor, council, constitution, by-laws, ordinances, or representation (the MP was either one of the Masters or in the Masters' pockets, and working men did not own property so could not vote anyway). The ironmasters ran it in their own interests, not just the Crawshays but Lord Plymouth at Penydarren, Josiah Guest at Dowlais, and others. Guest was a Quaker and something of a modifying influence on Crawshay's worst excesses, but by and large Crawshay, having the biggest ironworks and owning the most land, got his way. There was no hospital, law and order were kept by the Masters' bully-boys, the Masters printed their own money to pay their workers, and of course it was only redeemable in their own shops. These were always ready to hand out credit, resulting in half the workforce being in debt to the Masters; every aspect of their lives was controlled by these people. Not surprising there were riots. Edited February 9 by The Johnster 5 5 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted February 9 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9 6 hours ago, The Johnster said: Merthyr was by a considerable margin the largest town in Wales at that time, and growing rapidly, but had no mayor, council, constitution, by-laws, ordinances, or representation (the MP was either one of the Masters or in the Masters' pockets, and working men did not own property so could not vote anyway). The ironmasters ran it in their own interests, not just the Crawshays but Lord Plymouth at Penydarren, Josiah Guest at Dowlais, and others. Guest was a Quaker and something of a modifying influence on Crawshay's worst excesses, but by and large Crawshay, having the biggest ironworks and owning the most land, got his way. There was no hospital, law and order were kept by the Masters' bully-boys, the Masters printed their own money to pay their workers, and of course it was only redeemable in their own shops. These were always ready to hand out credit, resulting in half the workforce being in debt to the Masters; every aspect of their lives was controlled by these people. Basically slavery in all but name... 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 59 minutes ago, Nick C said: Basically slavery in all but name... And there are bosses/companies still who would introduce it again like a shot, given half a chance. steve 2 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 19 hours ago, steve1 said: And there are bosses/companies still who would introduce it again like a shot, given half a chance. Foxconn. Manufacturer of Apple equipment in China. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted February 10 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10 A fact you have to accept/ignore if you're an Apple user. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krusty Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, Hroth said: A fact you have to accept/ignore if you're an Apple user. Also if you use a Kindle, Nintendo console, Playstation, or Xbox. And some Dell computers. Plus plenty of others. They've also moved into electric cars. They're the largest electronic manufacturer on the planet and it's quite hard to be certain you're avoiding them. 1 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, Hroth said: A fact you have to accept/ignore if you're an Apple user. Or if you accept MSM propaganda without question. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 On 09/02/2024 at 02:47, The Johnster said: I suspect the grave mentioned is that of the Cyfarthfa Ironmaster Richard Crawshay. He was not quite cut from the same cloth as Cosher, who gave himself droit de seignneur on his workers' wives and daughters in exchange for employment and was more than happy to have anyone causing him problems quietly done away with and disposed of in the waste tip. Richard Crawshay's house was Cyfarthfa Castle, more a luxury mansion than an actually defendable building, which is actually in Glamorgan by a few yards, the border being Cefn Coed bridge over the Taf Fawr on the Brecon Road just to the north of Cyfarthfa Castle's main entrance. The workers' institute has a clock tower visible from the Castle, but has no clock on that side because they refused to give him the time of day... There was a slum area owned by him and rented to the workers called 'China', roughly where the bus station is now. It was situated between a churchyard and the river, and because there was no drainage, which as landowner he was responsible for providing, in heavy rain the churchyard would flood and the residents of China lived quite literally in the slurry of their own dead. It was, as were other areas of the town, a breeding ground for Cholera and consumption was ever-present. He threw a party at Cyfarthfa in 1829 which was reported as costing him £2,000, more than a million now, which would easily have provided proper drainage and sewerage systems for the entire town. Merthyr was by a considerable margin the largest town in Wales at that time, and growing rapidly, but had no mayor, council, constitution, by-laws, ordinances, or representation (the MP was either one of the Masters or in the Masters' pockets, and working men did not own property so could not vote anyway). The ironmasters ran it in their own interests, not just the Crawshays but Lord Plymouth at Penydarren, Josiah Guest at Dowlais, and others. Guest was a Quaker and something of a modifying influence on Crawshay's worst excesses, but by and large Crawshay, having the biggest ironworks and owning the most land, got his way. There was no hospital, law and order were kept by the Masters' bully-boys, the Masters printed their own money to pay their workers, and of course it was only redeemable in their own shops. These were always ready to hand out credit, resulting in half the workforce being in debt to the Masters; every aspect of their lives was controlled by these people. Not surprising there were riots. Years ago, I read a book called The Fire People by Alexander Cordell, about those working for Crawshay and Guest, and ending, IIRC with the hanging of the leader of an uprising; and another by him which ended with the Newport Rising. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted February 10 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10 36 minutes ago, 62613 said: Years ago, I read a book called The Fire People by Alexander Cordell, about those working for Crawshay and Guest, and ending, IIRC with the hanging of the leader of an uprising; and another by him which ended with the Newport Rising. The Rape Of the Fair Country set. Andi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 10 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10 (edited) 'The Fire People' features several real life characters, including the ironmasters of course, but Dic Penderyn, the worker's leader hanged for stabbing a soldier, Private Donald Black, was also a real person, as was Black. The trial was pretty much a foregone conclusion, Penderyn was a dead man before he entered the dock, despite the soldier making a signed statement that the man who stabbed him was not Dic Penderyn; this statement was ignored by Cardiff Assize Court at the trial. Evidence against Penderyn was taken from a Merthyr barber who had a score to settle with the accused; he apparently confessed to lying on his death-bed many years later in America. Huge crowds turned out from all over South Wales for the hanging, in support of Penderyn, who is regarded as a working class hero in the area to this day. For matters concerning Cosher Bailey, 'Rape of the Fair Country', set in Blaenafon and Nantyglo and also by Alexander Cordell, is more the thing. The 'Rape' series charts the story of several generations of the ficticious working-class Mortimer family, and the later books are tbh not as good or as well-researched as the earlier ones. 'The Fire People' is a standalone story set against the backdrop of the Merthyr uprising, during which the red flag of Socialism was first raised (on Hirwaun Common, a sheet soaked in the blood of a slaughtered sheep). Bara neu Waed! Edited February 10 by The Johnster 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 11 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11 1 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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