Tucson Cornelia and Gila Bend Railroad...

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

which in fact only went to one of those places.

 

The line was built to link the Phelps-Dodge New Cornelia Copper Mine at Ajo (say, AH-ho) with the smelters in Tucson, vis a connection with the espee Sunset Route at Gila Bend.

 

Starting at Gila Bend there was a neat little interchange yard. When I photographed it in 2007 there was a bunch of Delaware and Hudson hoppers gently fading way in the sidings. The line has been dormant since around 1998 when it was used to remove the scrap from the dismantling of the plant at Ajo. There are occasional rumours of reopening, but time moves slowly in these far desert reaches...

 

The line rolls into town over the canal, down a slight grade and over South Martin Road grade crossing before expiring in a small set of sidings next to a loader of some kind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The TC&GB wanders off to a connection wth the Sunset Route on the eastern edge of the yard.

 

There's not much to disturb the peace, apart from the dry clattering of the sage and cactus, the electric buzzing of the cicadas and the screen-door slamming on some old property that found itself literally on the wrong side of the tracks.

 

 

We then wander 43 hot and dusty miles across the Barry M Goldwater bombing range, admiring the hulks of bombed out aircraft and tank hulls as we go. Be careful out here, the heat can kill...

 

 

Finally rolling into town past the old wye tracks, we find the depot intact and looking like a train may show up at any time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Beyond the depot tracks, the entrance to the mine tells its own story. Where once was bustle and industry, now is silent and fading away under the relentless sun. The machinery went to China, or for scrap long ago, and nothing stirs in the pit itself.

 

 

And just to give you some idea of the size, the far rim is over a mile and a half from where I'm standing...

 

 

In a Company Town, when the Company quits, so does the town. Looks like everybody just upped and left...

[welsh wizard]

Very atmospheric photos !

[trisonic]

You've gotta love Arizona - I always feel I'm in some David Lynch movie when I wander around down there............

 

Great photos Doc.

 

Best, Pete.

[PhilH]

Good stuff - thanks for posting.

[Old Gringo]

Great photos Dr G-F,

 

Now for another of my questions about the geography of the U.S. south west, from a "rookie" modeler over 5,000 miles away in the currently cold and damp U.K.

 

On my map, Gila is about 130 miles west of Tucson along the Espee; which is about 165 west of Lordsburg N.M. Another 60 miles eastwards along the S.P. brings the line to Deming, where the (ATSF) branch to Whitewater and another mining area heads north west across the high (5,000ft.) desert of New Mexico. As the best set of references I've seen for the sort of track I want to model, could I use your photographs as representative of the same kind of rails to be found approximately 350 miles east of Gila ?

 

I understand that the surrounding area and shrubbery is different, but your photos are the first I've seen of yards away from the mainlines in the south west - hence the question.

 

Thanks again for the photos.

 

All the best, John.

[pointstaken]

Eerie, and saddening.

 

Dennis

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

As the best set of references I've seen for the sort of track I want to model, could I use your photographs as representative of the same kind of rails to be found approximately 350 miles east of Gila ?

 

John, I'm also stuck in the rainy cold UK, although having had an interest in US railroads I would probably no longer consider myself a 'rookie', but definitely still learning. I'm not sure whether the TC&GB would be a direct match for the ATSF in Deming, simply because the Santa Fe did things a little differently and the Deming branch was at one time the transcon route so probably has heavier rail.

 

But then the TC&GB also has lighter rail than the other copper lines I've photographed in Arizona, it really is a little piece of history fading away almost un-noticed.

 

What scale are you working in, what era are you modelling and what road? Once you get those in place the track will fall into place. If you're just aiming for a stick-rail and wooden axle outfit, then the TC&GB would do nicely. You'd have to handlay the track though, as none of the ready to play stuff is close to looking like this sort of track.

 

I'm working in G scale with code 215 rail hand spiked to real wood ties, and it looks pretty close to this sort of track. And I found I quite like making my own track too. I also have a more conventional HO collection which one day will magically assemble itself into a replica of Guadalupe on the espee Coast Line, circa 1980...

 

But that's another story

[Old Gringo]

Thanks for the heads up Dr. G-F.

 

Now, I'm working in H0, and with my two friends Chris (2manyspams) and Damian (Indomitable026), we've set off to build a layout under the strapline "Once upon a time ... in the west", which has a thread running in the Overseas Modelling section. Our other layouts, "Diesels in the Duchy" (aka St. Blazey) and "On the route of the Ace" - Treneglos, are on RMweb too. On both of those layouts we handbuilt all the turnouts and many of the sections of track that are right in the public view.

 

However, from the outset with the H0 layout, we chose to use Peco 83, because the layout was going to be bigger and the product looked good, was reliable and easy to lay. I chose to set the layout in the year 1919 (the year that the U.S. railroads were under Federal control) and figured that we could accept the fact that the heavy 130lb rail, well ballasted and weathered shouldn't look too far out of place.

 

The problem with picking the branch from Deming to Whitewater, Silver City and the mining areas at Hurley, Santa Rita and Tyrone is that there are few pictures of the railway in 1919, or for that matter anytime in the period 1900 through 1930. So, my intention in asking the question yesterday was to use your superb Arizona shortline photographs as a target to aim for as a finish for our Code 83 track, which is currently laid across four sections of 4 foot long baseboards. It's those colours and general feel of two rusty / dusty rails poking out of a sandy, weedy area, that I'd like to capture in our yard areas, if that's going to be reasonably accurate. Only the single-track main line will be treated to a grey-coloured stone ballast to pick it out as the through route, upgraded to use the new heavier locomotives introduced around 1910-1918 to shift the increased volumes of mineral traffic.

 

As you mentioned, the section from Rincon to Deming was the original transcontinental route built by the ATSF and joining up to the Espee in 1881. Our 30 plus miles of branch heading north-west to Silver City was first built to narrow gauge and then reset to standard gauge when the ATSF took control, although it seems that the S.P. may well have had running powers to Tyrone at some time around our period. But that's another story too!

 

Well, that's the details, what do you think ?

 

All the best,

 

John.

[trisonic]

John,

If you look at Dr. G-F's photos carefully a lot of fine detritus on the cess is actually windblown dust - there is (very probably) standard ballast buried under all that.

If you remember reading that link to the Black River and Western shortline that I found you'll note that many shortlines still use the old Pennsylvania track standards as their reference point (though I know that does not help you in 1919). I usually take the view that Code 83 for mainlines and Code 70 for "shorts" usually works well and looks about right......

 

Don't forget my other point about Arizona and New Mexico it is elevation that determines the type of vegetation. If you ever do get the chance drive from Phoenix to Flagstaff (via Sedona). It is uphill almost all the way and you'll see how soon the Saguaros disappear until finally at Flagstaff Ponderosa Pines (and associated undergrowth) predominate. I believe Flagstaff is actually higher than Denver and whilst I haven't gone West from Flagstaff (but Dr. G-F has) travelling East past the Meteor Crater and Painted Desert is fascinating. It's worth the drive from Flagstaff to Santa Fe NM via Window Rock, Gallup and Albuquerque to view the differences in rock formations alone.

 

All the best, my friend, Pete.

[dave1905]

I would imagine that the shortline would be a good match for the track condition of an earlier line. The obvious differences would be the rails would show evidence of use (shiny tops) and there would not be the vegetation growing up between the tracks nor debris blown on or dumped around the tracks. There would be evidence of maintenance on the buildings and appurtenances in 1919. Targets and buildings would have been painted and kept in repair, although the weather and blowing sand/dust would have faded and peeled paint.

 

Modeling the 1900 era, one thing that a lot of people do is heavily weather things because " stuff from 1900 is old", however if you are modeling 1900, stuff from 1890 is relatively new and stuff from 1900 would still be shiny. Often people weather early era stuff from the perspective of pictures taken in the 1930's or 1950's rather than in context.

 

Flagstaff is approximately 1000 ft higher than Denver (6200' vs 5200').

[Old Gringo]

Dr. G.F., Dave & Pete, A couple of months have rolled by since my last question on this thread, but here goes for another bit of information please.

 

On the right hand side of photo number 3 there is a tall switch stand.

 

Assuming that they are a pretty general piece of lineside hardware, do you think that that type would be about right for the A.T.SF. in the period we've set our layout ? If so, can you recommend a supplier of a model please ?

 

Thanks in anticipation, all the best,

 

John.

[trisonic]

"NJ International" are a good brand - I just don't know what is right for your early period......I think Dave1905 models the era you're looking for - you might want to pm him or start a thread that can catch all in terms of "details" for that time.

 

Here's one I took earlier:

 

 

 

 

Best, Pete.