Bachmann Midland Pullman

[Michael Delamar]

no one is disputing that they didnt run with yellow ends, a model should be produced with yellow ends.

its just the yellow on the prototype model has the yellow all over the doors and roof which is a very rarely seen variation.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

They are just trying to squeeze 2 livery variations out of a single tooling. I can't blame them for that as this is an expensive unit to tool and will retail accordingly. They need to maximise their sales and a yellow-end variant will help. It may not be the one everyone wants but I am sure it will sell to some.

 

Well I can blame them. I'd call them painting-style experiments, rather than liveries.

 

I suppose they'll next try to do the very early style of Nanking Blue when the white didn't extend over the kitchen sections of the trailers (only run in this condition prior to entering passenger service, but can be seen on the "Blue Pullman" film).

 

I'd prefer Bachmann to spend their time on creating a proper WR multiple-working version, than mess around with these "custard dip" front ends.

[Roy P]

With regard to Bachmann’s choice of liveries for the Blue Pullman model, one might look at recent examples of their release policy. The most relevant in this context is probably the LM class 350. The first issue carried the short lived Silver link grey followed by the more useful (?) London Midland pair. The Derby lightweight DMU was also offered with a slightly obscure option in the first batch and it might also be said that the Electric Blue AL5 would have slightly more appeal with a splash yellow on its face.

 

Hornby’s Brighton Belle has also left some waiting for their preferred livery detail variations. *

 

It strikes me that if Bachmann are to release subsequent batches of the Pullman units then the alternative set in original guise would be a certainty along with the more usual yellow end style that (Western?) modellers here are asking for. Whether or not Bachmann have†tooled-up†to allow for the later multiple fitted version or will consider a tooling tweak remains to be seen. Their track record shows that they aren’t afraid of such things.

 

It has been widely accepted that Bachmann made the sensible choice in announcing the 6-car Midland Pullman over the 8-car Western sets. Many may be pleasantly surprised that they have tackled this subject at all. Especially as they appear to have made an excellent job of it. Whilst I totally agree that short lived or obscure variant aren’t going to please many people, maybe a little bit more patience is all that’s needed. Personally, I’ve had an original style version on pre-order from day one.

 

*Just a thought! If Hornby were to portray the Brighton Belle “as restored†with motor bogies from a 4-CIG, What would Hornby use. OK I know that’s off topic but I didn’t want to post such thoughts were I may be shot!

RP

[Matabiau]

I think it's very brave of Bachmann to make a six-car fixed formation train and sell it as a single item. There can't be that many model railway layouts capable of running a six-car train. Having said that, If I had the space I would certinaly have had one on pre-porder a long time ago as they do look beautiful.

I suspect Hornby's Brighton Belle solution is perhaps finacially the soundest, selling the power cars as a set and then the coaches individually just like their HSTs. At least that way those of us who dream of running the Brighton Belle but who do not have the space can always buy as many elements as we can fit.

Perhaps Bachmann could consider making the Western Pullman as another six car set with the extra two coaches being sold separately?

[frobisher]

Don't know why Bachmann are trying to spoil the ship for a ha'peth of tar.

 

Just need to produce:

• Original (and best) Midland Pullman Nanking Blue
  
• Nanking Blue with yellow ends and MW connections
  
• Rail Grey/Blue with yellow ends with MW connections
  

What's difficult about that? Obscure front-end varieties? No thanks.

 

I think their "problem" is that they are rather short on livery varients without MW connections which is all the tooling supports at this point in time. As long as it's actually a valid livery and the bulk of this batch are the Nanking Blue ones it shouldn't be a huge problem (and besides, we need a "hump" of models for people to do the WR conversions from )

[brushman47544]

*Just a thought! If Hornby were to portray the Brighton Belle “as restored†with motor bogies from a 4-CIG, What would Hornby use. OK I know that’s off topic but I didn’t want to post such thoughts were I may be shot!

RP

 

Presumably their 4-VEP motor bogies...

[Pennine MC]

Perhaps Bachmann could consider making the Western Pullman as another six car set with the extra two coaches being sold separately?

 

Not that simple unfortunately, and a large part of why any sort of BeePee model has taken this long to actually happen - very few people seem able to get their heads around what they actually were. The WR sets weren't just LM sets with two extra coaches; IIRC there is only one vehicle layout that is actually common to both.

[Roy P]

I think it's very brave of Bachmann to make a six-car fixed formation train and sell it as a single item. There can't be that many model railway layouts capable of running a six-car train.

 

Consider Hornby's Train packs. Regularly released as Loco + 3 and a separate 3 coach pack. The additional coach packs are often difficult to obtain if you're not quick of the mark. This may indicate that there are plenty of layouts around that can use longer trains. It may also just be the collector market at play but that can be said of most items to some degree, even curious livery options.

 

IIRCC Bachmann, when originally dismissing the Blueper as non-viable, stated that if someone commissioned the set and ordered 5000 units at an approx £450 RRP, they would talk about it and estimated that . One might assume that the figures still hold some validity, therefore they still need to somehow shift 5000 units. I wish them well. All I can do to help is reduce that number to 4999. (maybe 4998!)

RP

[Roy P]

Presumably their 4-VEP motor bogies...

 

Please may it be noted that you said that, not me.

I thought it but didn't say it!

RP

[frobisher]

Please may it be noted that you said that, not me.

I thought it but didn't say it!

 

Or more accurately the 4VEP bogie frames on the Belle's motor bogie (which is let's face it the same mechanism, just with no traction tyres and a huge wodge of weight correctly applied. Can't really see the problem with that myself...

[Roy P]

...... 4VEP bogie frames on the Belle's motor bogie .... Can't really see the problem with that myself...

 

Fair enough...I was being naughty.

RP

[Rugd1022]

Not that simple unfortunately, and a large part of why any sort of BeePee model has taken this long to actually happen - very few people seem able to get their heads around what they actually were. The WR sets weren't just LM sets with two extra coaches; IIRC there is only one vehicle layout that is actually common to both.

 

Nail hit firmly on head there Mr.P.... what amounted to only five units made up from thirty six vehicles, only a few of which were alike.

[BernardTPM]

Nail hit firmly on head there Mr.P.... what amounted to only five units made up from thirty six vehicles, only a few of which were alike.

While true, the differences in the kitchen cars are not that great - matching trailer, rather than mixed trailer/motor bogies and one window, the one opposite the toilet, full width without the added bodyside grille. The motor coach has three second class bays, rather than two first and one toilet, and an added destination display window near the guard. The second parlour is the most different. In WR units this had the power/trailer bogie and narrowed window combination found under the LMR kitchen. Certainly it should be possible for a modeller to make the necessary alterations from two sets, with bits to spare. Much less certain a commercial case could be made for an R-T-R though.

[Pennine MC]

Much less certain a commercial case could be made for an R-T-R though.

 

Which is more or less where I was coming from, Bernard. The world has moved on since the days when Triang could market a 3-car B-P.

[D605Eagle]

As the basic shape of the coach/powercars are the same, have Bachy designed the moulds so windows can be added/blanked easily? I don't know that much about making mouldings, but Lima managed to cover all bases with their 31 moulding and I'm sure I remember reading it was done with interchangable parts to the mould.

[Karhedron]

It is possible to make toolings with interchangable parts (I have heard DapolDave refer to them as "slides"). I think it costs about $9K for each interchangable component. Based on the hint of MU cables, I would guess that the cab front is such a part. Whether Bachmann have done this for the coaches is something we can only speculate on.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Certainly it should be possible for a modeller to make the necessary alterations from two sets, with bits to spare. Much less certain a commercial case could be made for an R-T-R though.

So let's build on this thought.

 

Is there any mileage in suggesting to Bachmann or a 'commissioning' retailer that a pack of these two specific* trailer cars could be offered as the basis of a DIY option for those wanting to convert an MP to the WP? The options for the purchaser ranging from simply add the two cars to the formation and remove 'Midland' from the livery and you have an eight car 'lookee-likee', to getting the razor saw out and re-arranging components for the most faithful rendition of the Western sets.

 

*The specificity being that these two cars have the right collection of parts to enable a carve up and rearrangement into Western form.

[Stevelewis]

So let's build on this thought.

 

Is there any mileage in suggesting to Bachmann or a 'commissioning' retailer that a pack of these two specific* trailer cars could be offered as the basis of a DIY option for those wanting to convert an MP to the WP? The options for the purchaser ranging from simply add the two cars to the formation and remove 'Midland' from the livery and you have an eight car 'lookee-likee', to getting the razor saw out and re-arranging components for the most faithful rendition of the Western sets.

 

*The specificity being that these two cars have the right collection of parts to enable a carve up and rearrangement into Western form.

 

A Nice idea BUT I honestly dont think that the market would be large enough to enable even a break even on costs!

[Colin_McLeod]

I think it's very brave of Bachmann to make a six-car fixed formation train and sell it as a single item. There can't be that many model railway layouts capable of running a six-car train. Having said that, If I had the space I would certinaly have had one on pre-order a long time ago as they do look beautiful.

 

Matabiau, if you would have the space for a five car set, or even just a four car set, I would be very happy to agree a price with you for one, or two coaches to add to my six car to make up an eight car set, and leaving you with a Blue Pullman that you can run on your layout. I am not worried about the detail differences. I just like the idea of an eight car set.

 

If you (or any other member) is willing to trade an individual coach please PM me and we can work out which coach and a price.

 

Regards

 

Colin

[BernardTPM]

A one-piece coach bodyshell with detail on all faces would need the tool to part in six directions: top and bottom, two sides and two ends. Obviously if you design the tool so that the roof and sides and ends all part exactly along lines all the same distances apart, then you could make alternative parts for that tool - these would be the 'slides' referred to. With CAD design and tooling this can be done more easily and potentially more accurately than the old days when tooling was done 'manually'. It still wouldn't be cheap, but it wouldn't be as expensive in real terms as it would have been in the 1960s when Tri-ang tooled up their Blue Pullman, which goes some way towards explaining why they only did two different bodies and Bachmann (and Farish, of course!) are doing three (in two scales).

[Neal Ball]

I too saw the model on the Bachmann stand at Railfest and was blown away by the standards and whilst a GWR modeller I'm looking forward to getting one.

 

I wonder if someone will do blanking transfers so I can run it as "Pullman" rather than "Midland Pullman"

[Ramrig]

A shot I was sent by Steve Bielby taken at DMU. Reproduced with his permission and cropped to show detail. The display was not in the best place for photographing I have been told!!

 

 

 

Looking good to me. Cannot wait to take delivery of a set in this livery later in the year. Should look good running through "Duffield" on our club layout.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

A shot I was sent by Steve Bielby taken at DMU. Reproduced with his permission and cropped to show detail. The display was not in the best place for photographing I have been told!!

 

 

 

Looking good to me. Cannot wait to take delivery of a set in this livery later in the year. Should look good running through "Duffield" on our club layout.

 

That's more like it. I can sleep easy now.....

[Ramrig]

That's more like it. I can sleep easy now.....

 

Got to agree Peter.

[Michael Delamar]

I notice the mould line around the cab, while it doesnt bother me, I wonder could that be a sign that they have designed the mould with the MU cable version able to be swapped in?