shortliner Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The Times "Mapping The Railways": The journey of Britain's railways through maps from 1819 to the present day [Hardcover] Holland & Spaven Apparently includes, amongst many other things, plans for light railways on all the Scottish Islands, and a Victorian plan for a railway between Stranraer and Belfast. My good lady found it on a TV review Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-15187431 Amazon link - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Times-Mapping-Railways-Britains-railways/dp/0007435991 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Looking at the under/over/insea connection between Ireland and Stranraer, the enginnering challenges would be much greater than the (English) Channel Tunnel. The English Ghannel is about 35m deep, the North Channel ad Irish Sea minimum centre depth is about 100m (which is why there are no snakes in Ireland, but that's another story). Quite how the engineering problems would be able to be solved, even today, would be quite difficult. The rock in the English Channel is Cretaceous chalk, quite soft, whereas the rock underlying the North Channel is pretty hard, Silurian and some Ordovician well consolidated sandstones and other things that resist easy excavation, As you get to Ireland you get into the realm of Tertiary basalts (think Giants Causeway). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The English Ghannel is about 35m deep, the North Channel ad Irish Sea minimum centre depth is about 100m (which is why there are no snakes in Ireland, but that's another story). (OT) - Why should the depth be relevant to the absence of snakes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Only because I guess the North Channel became water-filled some time before the Channel as the ice caps retreated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2011 I dont know how the Victorian engineers planned to solve the problem, but i think the way to do it would be to use submerged tubes, connected together once on the sea bed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (OT) - Why should the depth be relevant to the absence of snakes? Only because I guess the North Channel became water-filled some time before the Channel as the ice caps retreated. Dead on. When the North Channel flooded it wasn't warm enough for snakes to have migrated to England. When the English Channel flooded it had been for some time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I dont know how the Victorian engineers planned to solve the problem, but i think the way to do it would be to use submerged tubes, connected together once on the sea bed. At 100 metres deep they would have had to withstand an external pressure of around 21 bar - 300+psi. Some engineering even today. And yes, I know that WWII submatrines went to that depth and survived. But that's using an enclosed space not a tube. And it's a darned sight earlier and hence without the better steels and other materials. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yep, look at the problems the Roeblings had with the "bends" just making the footings for the Brooklyn Bridge in caissons. So much was simply unknown then, however good the engineers. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2011 One slight prolem in using the North Chnnel nowadays would be the many thousands of tons of WW2 munitions dumped there after the war, inlcuidng I think, german nerve gas shells that had been temporarily stored in North Wales. There are periodic reports about the unstable nature of the stuff that is down there and occaisionally some washes up on beaches. However the prospect of a Stranraer Larne tunnel is an intriguing one, where would the have the gauge changer, presumably not in the middle. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Dead on. When the North Channel flooded it wasn't warm enough for snakes to have migrated to England. When the English Channel flooded it had been for some time. Ah yes, I was just thinking in terms of depth rather than historical sequence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Nice thread Jack. If the book is as interesting as this thread - I definitely want a copy now. Especially as I've skimmed through a copy, that one of my Staffordshire mates has had as a present. Most of the maps seemed to be in colour and I didn't want to hand the book back! All the best, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 If the Stranraer/Larne tunnel had been built, it could have been worked by the loco featured in the book by Leon Uris, 'Trinity': This loco could apparently operate with equal ease on both Irish and standard gauges ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 'The Times "Mapping The Railways"' is temporarily out of stock at Amazon, but is available - and cheaper - from "The Book People" - £7.99 plus £1.95 postage. http://www.thebookpe...Railways%22%3A+ (Edited for clarity) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Do they deliver outside of the UK and Ireland? Doesn't seem like it......... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Do they deliver outside of the UK and Ireland? Doesn't seem like it......... Best, Pete. They only quote BFPO and Spain for overseas delivery - you could try phoning them to check. Amazon.com list it, but at $49.02. Foyles - http://www.foyles.co.uk/Public/Shop/Detail.aspx?rowNum=1&itemId=6638508&hFacetId=1009&categoryId=1204 - have it at £19.50 + £6 delivery to USA.There are probably others. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted October 11, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2011 'The Times "Mapping The Railways"' is temporarily out of stock at Amazon, but is available - and cheaper - from "The Book People" - £7.99 plus £1.95 postage. http://www.thebookpe...Railways%22%3A+ (Edited for clarity) Wow - can't refuse at that price! Book, maps, railways - my favourite things in one place - what's not to like! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bernard Lamb Posted November 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2011 Has anybody got any comments on the book ? I will be meeting one of the authors next week so would like to be able to pass on some constructive information. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted November 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2011 (OT) - Why should the depth be relevant to the absence of snakes? Cos the snakes missed the boat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Has anybody got any comments on the book ? I will be meeting one of the authors next week so would like to be able to pass on some constructive information. Bernard Um... it contains masses of really interesting information but it's presented in the currently fashionable "scrap book" style, presumably because a linear narrative is considered too intimidating; I found it all a bit patronising. I loved the use made of maps submitted with Parliamentary Bills, but there were, for me, too few of these and they were too tightly cropped. In a book about maps I wanted to see more maps! I suspect I am not the target market, though. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 'The Times "Mapping The Railways"' is temporarily out of stock at Amazon, but is available - and cheaper - from "The Book People" - £7.99 plus £1.95 postage. http://www.thebookpe...Railways%22%3A+(Edited for clarity) Now out of stock at The Book People too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Now out of stock at The Book People too. Yes, I wondered if my tip-off contributed to The Book People being cleaned out? I wanted another copy for a relative, too - me and my big mouth... Still, TBP hope to get it back in after Christmas, and Amazon have it again at £15. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Showing as £0.00 on the Book Law site, which lets you place a copy in your basket and calculates postage (£2.50) thereon. I didn't try going any further, it wouldn't be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bernard Lamb Posted December 2, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2011 My information from one of the authors, is that the first run has sold out and another (smaller) run is being printed. It seems to have gone rather well. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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