Keith Canada Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I was thinking that locos that are radio-controlled from a belt-pack might be the sort of thing that one would see at the car plants and small container terminals such as are described in another thread. Â I have a picture in a book of a Wisconsin Central caboose that has been modified as a remote control van, controlling the loco through the MU cables. It has a series of lights on the roof which I assume show whether it is receiving data, accelerating, braking, or whatever and I recall seeing something similar on an "SW"-type switcher quite a while ago. Â With the advent of DCC it might make a visually-interesting project with small LED's to show the loco status on a switching layout - going one stage further and using radio DCC, the layout operator could build their own "belt-pack," put on an orange safety-vest and hard-hat, and impress the punters at a show! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Dear RCL fans,  As we've got a rallying point for RCL stuff, here's some which may be of interest...  UPY RCL ops in LA   Puget Sound and Pacific RCL ops in Hoquiam WA, circa 2003   Pics of UPY CCRCL via LocoPhotos  http://www.locophotos.com/Search.php?SearchRoadID=&SearchLocoID=&SearchLowerNumber=&SearchUpperNumber=&SearchModel=UP+CCRCL&SearchOrderNumber=&SearchSerialNumber=&SearchFrameNumber=&SearchLineage=&SearchNotes=&SearchUserID=&SearchCity=&SearchState=&SearchPhotoDate=&SearchLowerDate=&SearchUpperDate=&SearchRemarks=&Order=&Search=Search  UPY RCL in Janesville   Malpitas RCL  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgQk7mcdFco&NR=1  GP38 RCL   Upclose viewing of a UPY CCRCL (start at around 2:40)   And, as an oddball offshoot, what happens when you need to spread the weight of a 2-loco consist due to a light bridge on the line?  http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=286181 (No, that boxcar is not simply a "bad switching move", check the ends, it actually has MU connections on the end!!!)  Remote TrackMobile http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=367883&nseq=13  Remote BNSF GP39 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=366289&nseq=17  CSX "Remote Platform" (Let's see your "Palmetto" and "Miami" CSX fans model this... :-) ) http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=352410&nseq=40  feedmill GP remote unit, with vertically arrayed status lights http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=343718&nseq=70  Cargill Grain GP with vertically-mounted status lights http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=342964&nseq=71  Looking more like a electronics testbed than a loco, ADM remote unit with rooftop status lights http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=341490&nseq=72  MRL mounted the remote gear in a Caboose? (check the strobes on each corner of the roof, and the "remote control caboose" lettering on the side) http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=334923&nseq=90  Steelmill remote switcher, with status lights mounted on the front cab wall http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=329499&nseq=107  More with the CSX remote platform http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=324180&nseq=122  Alco S-series remote switcher http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=323521&nseq=127  More steelmill switcher, looks like a layout? http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=322847&nseq=128  ex ATSF GE and caboose, with the caboose sporting the remote gear, headlights, and strobes http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=320310&nseq=135  Alco S2 remote http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=310721&nseq=151  Still more with the CSX Remote platforms http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=310327&nseq=152  Ugly oddball "homebruise"(?) remote switcher, looks like the base loco was a EMD SW? http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305955&nseq=162  Even big SDs can be remotes, Note the strobes similar to those seen on the UPY CCRCL "sled" conversions http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305434&nseq=166  Speaking of the UPY CCRCL sleds http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=303497&nseq=173  another remote SD with the strobes on the rooftop, a la CSX. Nice shot of the operator and bellypack http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=291530&nseq=199  NS also does remotes http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=289761&nseq=204  and the classic KCS switcher http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=289761&nseq=204   I've always thought that a figure standing trackside with a bellypack, with a slo-motion point-motor mounted under the benchwork, would be able to "turn L<>R" to follow the action as the remote loco shuttled backwards and forward on a "Inglenook" or similar.  Such animation does not _need_ DCC, a slo-mo point-motor such as Tortoise or SwitchTender can be driven directly from the analog track power, (and as a bonus, will _always_ turn the figure the correct direction relative to the loco's current direction-of-travel automatically! ;-) ).  Hope this helps,  Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Canada Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Interesting photos, Prof - thanks for posting! Â Does anyone on the list know what the individual colour lights indicate on the locos? Â I think now the individual lights are not used as much and flashing amber beacons have taken their place - or maybe that's a result of different system manufacturers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Interesting photos, Prof - thanks for posting!  Does anyone on the list know what the individual colour lights indicate on the locos?  I think now the individual lights are not used as much and flashing amber beacons have taken their place - or maybe that's a result of different system manufacturers?  Dear Keith,  Can't quite find it right now, but there was a 1990's Trains magazine article covering the remote GP (35? 38?) units being used on the W&LE. IIRC there are commonly either 4 or 5 lights in the "Status" array, usually one array on each side of the loco.  From memory - White = Radio/remote gear operating - Red = Brakes (applied or released, cannot recall)  Unsure if there is a seperate light for "fwd" and "reverse", but those would be logical choices.  EDIT check this link http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=8498  IIRC most bellypacks have a "tilt switch" that is meant to detect if the operator falls over. trips. or is otherwise not standing upright and fully compus. Trigger the tilt switch, and the loco brakes are automatically applied. In some instances, the loco is also configured to blow it's horn to alert other RR employees nearby that "summat ain't right"...  FYI http://www.cattron.com/dnn/Products/RailProducts/tabid/71/language/en-US/Default.aspx (Note the "Quick Connect" product, which might explain the loco in the above pics with the "bolt-on-boxes" hanging off the front handrails???)  http://www.beltpackcorp.com/cantrac.html  http://www.scribd.com/doc/52293068/72/Operating-a-Remote-Control-Locomotive-RCL-and-Remote-Control-Platform-RCP (CSX Remote ops rules, scroll to page 145 for the RCL-specific bits...)  http://www.tcrcmoosejaw.ca/TCRCAttach/Documents/RCLS.pdf  http://www.ble272.org/BLETSafetyFirstGuideLocoInspection.pdf (BLE "first Inspection" checksheet, interesting...)  As noted, it would appear that the larger RRs aren't soo keen on the individual "status light" array, a single "RCL mode" strobe + the LCD display on the bellpack does the job?  Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr  PS Yes, building a "faux bellypack" with a NCE Cab04PR to drive the layout's DCC system would be a reasonably simple wood/metal/plasticwork exercise. Making the "oversized controls" would be similar to _this_effort_  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Dear RMWebbers, Â Just another RCL video, (note the bellypack on the operators right at the start of the clip), Â although there doesn't appear to be any radio CCRCL "sled" in the consist. Maybe gensets now have radio gear onboard? Â Â Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 As an off-topic aside, I read recently that one of the minor Swiss lines has fitted one of its railcars with remote control with a bellypack type controller. This is not for switching, but to allow push pull operation with any coaches (Although presumably they need end windows or balconies) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 The colored lights are specific to an individual railroad, they aren't standard or used by all railroads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 The prof is correct, the gensets are remote equipped. So are at least some of the SD40-2s that work the bowl in West Colton. I think the ex-GE RCL sleds on the UP were a stopgap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 The RCL sleds are backups in case the regular RCL engines go bad or for some reason you need an extra RCL consist, you can match up any locomotive with the sled and have RCL operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Canada Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 As an off-topic aside, I read recently that one of the minor Swiss lines has fitted one of its railcars with remote control with a bellypack type controller. This is not for switching, but to allow push pull operation with any coaches (Although presumably they need end windows or balconies) Â Possbly you mean the Rorschach-Heiden Bergbahn? This is near Lake Constance (the Bodensee) and is a standard-gauge rack line. Some years ago I travelled on this with the railcar pushing a couple of regular passenger cars and the driver stood at the front of the lead car driving with a belt-pack (the regular cars were on the uphill side). There's a video here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kecko/2709961806/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 The prof is correct, the gensets are remote equipped. So are at least some of the SD40-2s that work the bowl in West Colton. I think the ex-GE RCL sleds on the UP were a stopgap. Â Are all the Gensets now remote-equipped? Looking at fairly recent pictures (the circus train thread for instance) it looks as if some are still non-remote - the give aways seem to be the orange flashing lights and extra stickers on the remote-equipped units. Â I wondered if there was a mix in use - but maybe all are now so equipped? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I would preface this by saying I'm a railfan, a foamer, an amateur, and all I know is what I see, backed up by unreliable information on railfan forums. There are visitors here like Dave1905 who are privy to much better information. However, as far as I can tell, all gensets are remote equipped. A good many other locos that have freqented the LA basin in the last several years, like GP38-2s and SD40-2s, are also remote equipped, though about the only indication is the yellow strobes: At the same time, other models, like GP15-1s and certainly SW1500s, have gone away. Occasionally you still see a GP15-1 MUed with a genset, my guess is to combine the genset's remote capability with the GP15-1's reliability. I see no other reason to MU FIVE gensets together. My guess is that even Dave1905's chain of command will resrict his ability to comment on this matter, but I'm willing to be better informed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thanks JWB, Â I guess like many places the LA basin is steadily getting more homogeneous equipment, but fortunately for us Brits is all still pretty exotic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Just back from a 2 week trip along the West Coast from Seattle to San Francisco. Of note on the RC switching , BNSF 2121 was in use at the Multimodal terminal to the south of Seattle (the one near the airport). I had my radio scanner on whilst on the train , and the loco was broadcasting it's status : "BNSF 2121 brake configured" or something similar. Â It's a great pity there isn't more of a market for more prototyplcal controllers for models - I'm not necessarily advocating a full sized EMD control stand (although that would be nice) , but a miniature version as seen in the video earlier in the forum , or an AAR type desktop controller , and , yes, a beltpack unit might add to the operating entertainment/realism (delete as applicable). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I find certain amounts of irony in the desire for a full size control stand. I can see somebody with a 8 inch by 4 foot Inglenook using a control stand that has 4 foot tall, 16 square foot control stand and seat. It would probably require two people to operate the railroad. With only one operator, I would think having to get up and line a switch, then go sit down and move the train, then get up and uncouple the car, then go sit down and move the train, then get up and line the switch, then sit down and move the train, etc., etc. would get old quickly. 8-) Â Also after all these years of trying to break free of fixed operating positions and finally getting full range mobile controls (radio DCC), going back to an even more cumbersome fixed operating position seems somewhat retro. Â If you think about it, a radio DCC controller is more or less the same as a belt pack. Â If you want the "full throttle" experience Jack Burgess build a 1/4 scale model steam locomotive cab and built a transitor throttle that operated off the scale controls. There was a multi-part article in Railroad Model Craftsman probably 20-25 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Dave , Â I see your point regarding portablility - what I was suggesting was more along the lines of a handheld unit such as that modelled in one of the video clips in this thread- I think it's an NCE unit rebuilt to mimic an EMD type controller ie with the 8 notch power handle. Most DCC controllers are functional , but as that clip shows , it's possible to make it more of a realistic experience (as much as holding a miniaturised control stand driving a plastic locomotive can be anyway....) Â I've also seen the article in MRH of the guy who has a full sized E or F unit cab in his railroad room - nice if you have the space (and a lot of cash). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 There is a lot of debate on various forums about "prototypical" controls. The easy part is building a controller that looks "real". The hard part is building the control system behind it to make the locomotive and train move like you want and have the train react prototypically. It would probably require some sort of computer interface and some sort of equipment mapping system (being able to tell where the engines and cars are on the layout and in relationship to each other. For example if the engine is hauling cars, the independent brake will provide minimal stopping power, but if the engines are light, they would be used to stop the engines. Â Lots of opinions on how much complexity do you want vs. how much time do you have to deal with it on a model railroad because the distances are so short. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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