Radio-Controlled Locos

[Keith Canada]

I was thinking that locos that are radio-controlled from a belt-pack might be the sort of thing that one would see at the car plants and small container terminals such as are described in another thread.

 

I have a picture in a book of a Wisconsin Central caboose that has been modified as a remote control van, controlling the loco through the MU cables. It has a series of lights on the roof which I assume show whether it is receiving data, accelerating, braking, or whatever and I recall seeing something similar on an "SW"-type switcher quite a while ago.

 

With the advent of DCC it might make a visually-interesting project with small LED's to show the loco status on a switching layout - going one stage further and using radio DCC, the layout operator could build their own "belt-pack," put on an orange safety-vest and hard-hat, and impress the punters at a show!

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear RCL fans,

 

As we've got a rallying point for RCL stuff, here's some which may be of interest...

 

UPY RCL ops in LA

 

 

Puget Sound and Pacific RCL ops in Hoquiam WA, circa 2003

 

 

Pics of UPY CCRCL via LocoPhotos

 

http://www.locophotos.com/Search.php?SearchRoadID=&SearchLocoID=&SearchLowerNumber=&SearchUpperNumber=&SearchModel=UP+CCRCL&SearchOrderNumber=&SearchSerialNumber=&SearchFrameNumber=&SearchLineage=&SearchNotes=&SearchUserID=&SearchCity=&SearchState=&SearchPhotoDate=&SearchLowerDate=&SearchUpperDate=&SearchRemarks=&Order=&Search=Search

 

UPY RCL in Janesville

 

 

Malpitas RCL

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgQk7mcdFco&NR=1

 

GP38 RCL

 

 

Upclose viewing of a UPY CCRCL (start at around 2:40)

 

 

And, as an oddball offshoot, what happens when you need to spread the weight of a 2-loco consist due to a light bridge on the line?

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=286181

(No, that boxcar is not simply a "bad switching move", check the ends, it actually has MU connections on the end!!!)

 

Remote TrackMobile

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=367883&nseq=13

 

Remote BNSF GP39

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=366289&nseq=17

 

CSX "Remote Platform" (Let's see your "Palmetto" and "Miami" CSX fans model this... :-) )

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=352410&nseq=40

 

feedmill GP remote unit, with vertically arrayed status lights

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=343718&nseq=70

 

Cargill Grain GP with vertically-mounted status lights

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=342964&nseq=71

 

Looking more like a electronics testbed than a loco, ADM remote unit with rooftop status lights

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=341490&nseq=72

 

MRL mounted the remote gear in a Caboose? (check the strobes on each corner of the roof, and the "remote control caboose" lettering on the side)

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=334923&nseq=90

 

Steelmill remote switcher, with status lights mounted on the front cab wall

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=329499&nseq=107

 

More with the CSX remote platform

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=324180&nseq=122

 

Alco S-series remote switcher

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=323521&nseq=127

 

More steelmill switcher, looks like a layout?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=322847&nseq=128

 

ex ATSF GE and caboose, with the caboose sporting the remote gear, headlights, and strobes

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=320310&nseq=135

 

Alco S2 remote

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=310721&nseq=151

 

Still more with the CSX Remote platforms

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=310327&nseq=152

 

Ugly oddball "homebruise"(?) remote switcher, looks like the base loco was a EMD SW?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305955&nseq=162

 

Even big SDs can be remotes, Note the strobes similar to those seen on the UPY CCRCL "sled" conversions

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305434&nseq=166

 

Speaking of the UPY CCRCL sleds

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=303497&nseq=173

 

another remote SD with the strobes on the rooftop, a la CSX.

Nice shot of the operator and bellypack

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=291530&nseq=199

 

NS also does remotes

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=289761&nseq=204

 

and the classic KCS switcher

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=289761&nseq=204

 

 

I've always thought that a figure standing trackside with a bellypack,

with a slo-motion point-motor mounted under the benchwork,

would be able to "turn L<>R" to follow the action as the remote loco shuttled backwards and forward on a "Inglenook" or similar.

 

Such animation does not _need_ DCC, a slo-mo point-motor such as Tortoise or SwitchTender can be driven directly from the analog track power, (and as a bonus, will _always_ turn the figure the correct direction relative to the loco's current direction-of-travel automatically! ;-) ).

 

Hope this helps,

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

[Keith Canada]

Interesting photos, Prof - thanks for posting!

 

Does anyone on the list know what the individual colour lights indicate on the locos?

 

I think now the individual lights are not used as much and flashing amber beacons have taken their place - or maybe that's a result of different system manufacturers?

[Prof Klyzlr]

Interesting photos, Prof - thanks for posting!

 

Does anyone on the list know what the individual colour lights indicate on the locos?

 

I think now the individual lights are not used as much and flashing amber beacons have taken their place - or maybe that's a result of different system manufacturers?

 

Dear Keith,

 

Can't quite find it right now, but there was a 1990's Trains magazine article covering the remote GP (35? 38?) units being used on the W&LE. IIRC there are commonly either 4 or 5 lights in the "Status" array, usually one array on each side of the loco.

 

From memory

- White = Radio/remote gear operating

- Red = Brakes (applied or released, cannot recall)

 

Unsure if there is a seperate light for "fwd" and "reverse", but those would be logical choices.

 

EDIT check this link

http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=8498

 

IIRC most bellypacks have a "tilt switch" that is meant to detect if the operator falls over. trips. or is otherwise not standing upright and fully compus. Trigger the tilt switch, and the loco brakes are automatically applied. In some instances, the loco is also configured to blow it's horn to alert other RR employees nearby that "summat ain't right"...

 

FYI

http://www.cattron.com/dnn/Products/RailProducts/tabid/71/language/en-US/Default.aspx

(Note the "Quick Connect" product, which might explain the loco in the above pics with the "bolt-on-boxes" hanging off the front handrails???)

 

http://www.beltpackcorp.com/cantrac.html

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/52293068/72/Operating-a-Remote-Control-Locomotive-RCL-and-Remote-Control-Platform-RCP

(CSX Remote ops rules, scroll to page 145 for the RCL-specific bits...)

 

http://www.tcrcmoosejaw.ca/TCRCAttach/Documents/RCLS.pdf

 

http://www.ble272.org/BLETSafetyFirstGuideLocoInspection.pdf

(BLE "first Inspection" checksheet, interesting...)

 

As noted, it would appear that the larger RRs aren't soo keen on the individual "status light" array,

a single "RCL mode" strobe + the LCD display on the bellpack does the job?

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

 

PS Yes, building a "faux bellypack" with a NCE Cab04PR to drive the layout's DCC system would be a reasonably simple wood/metal/plasticwork exercise. Making the "oversized controls" would be similar to _this_effort_

 

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear RMWebbers,

 

Just another RCL video,

(note the bellypack on the operators right at the start of the clip),

 

although there doesn't appear to be any radio CCRCL "sled" in the consist.

Maybe gensets now have radio gear onboard?

 

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

[Talltim]

As an off-topic aside, I read recently that one of the minor Swiss lines has fitted one of its railcars with remote control with a bellypack type controller. This is not for switching, but to allow push pull operation with any coaches (Although presumably they need end windows or balconies)

[dave1905]

The colored lights are specific to an individual railroad, they aren't standard or used by all railroads.

[JWB]

The prof is correct, the gensets are remote equipped. So are at least some of the SD40-2s that work the bowl in West Colton. I think the ex-GE RCL sleds on the UP were a stopgap.

[dave1905]

The RCL sleds are backups in case the regular RCL engines go bad or for some reason you need an extra RCL consist, you can match up any locomotive with the sled and have RCL operation.

[Keith Canada]

As an off-topic aside, I read recently that one of the minor Swiss lines has fitted one of its railcars with remote control with a bellypack type controller. This is not for switching, but to allow push pull operation with any coaches (Although presumably they need end windows or balconies)

 

Possbly you mean the Rorschach-Heiden Bergbahn? This is near Lake Constance (the Bodensee) and is a standard-gauge rack line. Some years ago I travelled on this with the railcar pushing a couple of regular passenger cars and the driver stood at the front of the lead car driving with a belt-pack (the regular cars were on the uphill side). There's a video here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kecko/2709961806/

[Jon Gwinnett]

The prof is correct, the gensets are remote equipped. So are at least some of the SD40-2s that work the bowl in West Colton. I think the ex-GE RCL sleds on the UP were a stopgap.

 

Are all the Gensets now remote-equipped? Looking at fairly recent pictures (the circus train thread for instance) it looks as if some are still non-remote - the give aways seem to be the orange flashing lights and extra stickers on the remote-equipped units.

 

I wondered if there was a mix in use - but maybe all are now so equipped?

[JWB]

I would preface this by saying I'm a railfan, a foamer, an amateur, and all I know is what I see, backed up by unreliable information on railfan forums. There are visitors here like Dave1905 who are privy to much better information. However, as far as I can tell, all gensets are remote equipped. A good many other locos that have freqented the LA basin in the last several years, like GP38-2s and SD40-2s, are also remote equipped, though about the only indication is the yellow strobes:

At the same time, other models, like GP15-1s and certainly SW1500s, have gone away. Occasionally you still see a GP15-1 MUed with a genset, my guess is to combine the genset's remote capability with the GP15-1's reliability. I see no other reason to MU FIVE gensets together. My guess is that even Dave1905's chain of command will resrict his ability to comment on this matter, but I'm willing to be better informed.

[Jon Gwinnett]

Thanks JWB,

 

I guess like many places the LA basin is steadily getting more homogeneous equipment, but fortunately for us Brits is all still pretty exotic!

[Supaned]

Just back from a 2 week trip along the West Coast from Seattle to San Francisco. Of note on the RC switching , BNSF 2121 was in use at the Multimodal terminal to the south of Seattle (the one near the airport). I had my radio scanner on whilst on the train , and the loco was broadcasting it's status : "BNSF 2121 brake configured" or something similar.

 

It's a great pity there isn't more of a market for more prototyplcal controllers for models - I'm not necessarily advocating a full sized EMD control stand (although that would be nice) , but a miniature version as seen in the video earlier in the forum , or an AAR type desktop controller , and , yes, a beltpack unit might add to the operating entertainment/realism (delete as applicable).

[dave1905]

I find certain amounts of irony in the desire for a full size control stand. I can see somebody with a 8 inch by 4 foot Inglenook using a control stand that has 4 foot tall, 16 square foot control stand and seat. It would probably require two people to operate the railroad. With only one operator, I would think having to get up and line a switch, then go sit down and move the train, then get up and uncouple the car, then go sit down and move the train, then get up and line the switch, then sit down and move the train, etc., etc. would get old quickly. 8-)

 

Also after all these years of trying to break free of fixed operating positions and finally getting full range mobile controls (radio DCC), going back to an even more cumbersome fixed operating position seems somewhat retro.

 

If you think about it, a radio DCC controller is more or less the same as a belt pack.

 

If you want the "full throttle" experience Jack Burgess build a 1/4 scale model steam locomotive cab and built a transitor throttle that operated off the scale controls. There was a multi-part article in Railroad Model Craftsman probably 20-25 years ago.

[Supaned]

Dave ,

 

I see your point regarding portablility - what I was suggesting was more along the lines of a handheld unit such as that modelled in one of the video clips in this thread- I think it's an NCE unit rebuilt to mimic an EMD type controller ie with the 8 notch power handle. Most DCC controllers are functional , but as that clip shows , it's possible to make it more of a realistic experience (as much as holding a miniaturised control stand driving a plastic locomotive can be anyway....)

 

I've also seen the article in MRH of the guy who has a full sized E or F unit cab in his railroad room - nice if you have the space (and a lot of cash).

[dave1905]

There is a lot of debate on various forums about "prototypical" controls. The easy part is building a controller that looks "real". The hard part is building the control system behind it to make the locomotive and train move like you want and have the train react prototypically. It would probably require some sort of computer interface and some sort of equipment mapping system (being able to tell where the engines and cars are on the layout and in relationship to each other. For example if the engine is hauling cars, the independent brake will provide minimal stopping power, but if the engines are light, they would be used to stop the engines.

 

Lots of opinions on how much complexity do you want vs. how much time do you have to deal with it on a model railroad because the distances are so short.