Adrian Wintle Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I would differ, though, on whether all of them are owned by TTX. Here is another from October of 2010: Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 At first glance I thought, "that's a model"! Its no criticism, just something about the photo gives it that look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Just to show a different situation where autoracks are used, here's Annacis Island in the Fraser River in British Columbia. This is where ships dock bringing cars built in Asia to Canada. If you look around, there are thousands of cars lined up. There wasn't a ship docked at the time the aerial photo was taken, but you can see one in the background of this street-level view. There are also a lot of racks around - two locations where they're being loaded, what looks like another dead-end yard where some are being held, and several strings in a yard alongside the running line.There's no tight scheduling needed, as Dave has described, because there's no production happening. Southern Railway of BC (SRY) are the only railway with access to the facility. They assemble pretty long trains of racks and pull them to the New Westminster yards for transfer to the bigger railways - CN and CP. I'm not sure how modellable this would be. By its nature, this operation would need lots of space, racks and cars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Ramps visible in this view of the Phoenix autoramp http://maps.google.com/maps?q=phoenix+az&hl=en&ll=33.441963,-112.058576&spn=0.000314,0.000687&sll=32.916832,-85.131989&sspn=0.001788,0.003449&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=21 All autoramps are essentially inglenooks... flipping great big ones. That is incredibly sharp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think the problem you've potentially got is monotony. No matter what the size of the layout, its "play value" is going to increase depending on how much variety and other challenge you can give it. This is the sort of thing that might look good in a mag -- but so many layouts written up that way wind up getting sold off or scrapped as soon as they've been published. I think this is also a problem with a scaled-down industrial park, to tell the truth. Just pulling the corn syrup cars at the corn flake factory is going to get old before long, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 At first glance I thought, "that's a model"! Its no criticism, just something about the photo gives it that look. It must be that generic Canadian sky and even the graffiti is polite............. Just teasing, Adrian. It's actually a nice photo. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Canada Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 If I could figure out how to get a Google Maps URL for a specific location (!!), I would post the link to the Toyota plant just north of Highway 401 here in Cambridge. It shows quite clearly the two Trackmobiles allocated there, with one attached to the end of a couple of AutoRacks. Also we get CP freights running trains of AutoRacks 24/7 in and out of the plant passing only a few hundred yards away, so the next time I hear the horns blow for the grade crossing and I've got some spare time I'll run down there and look at the reporting marks on the cars (unless it's the 3.00am train, of course...) EDIT: Bing Maps is a different picture - you can see one Trackmobile switching two AutoRacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 If I could figure out how to get a Google Maps URL for a specific location (!!), I would post the link to the Toyota plant just north of Highway 401 here in Cambridge. It shows quite clearly the two Trackmobiles allocated there, with one attached to the end of a couple of AutoRacks. Also we get CP freights running trains of AutoRacks 24/7 in and out of the plant passing only a few hundred yards away, so the next time I hear the horns blow for the grade crossing and I've got some spare time I'll run down there and look at the reporting marks on the cars (unless it's the 3.00am train, of course...) EDIT: Bing Maps is a different picture - you can see one Trackmobile switching two AutoRacks. Dear Keith, The key for Google Maps is to click the "Chain Link" icon at top right, to reveal the URL of the current Map View http://maps.google.com/maps?q=toyota+manufacturing,+cambridge,+canada&hl=en&ll=43.414443,-80.372361&spn=0.001944,0.006845&sll=43.667872,-80.90332&sspn=1.982704,4.916382&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=18&iwloc=A NOTE - the Trackmobile at right coupled up to a rake of 2x autoracks - the fact that most of the tracks look to be only around 4 autoracks long (If you consider a "rake of 2 autoracks" to = 1 x "inglenook car length", we're still in the ballpark for a 3:2:2 'nook :-) ) - the trackmobile parked at left on what looks like a servicing track - and the pair of larger (CP?) diesels stopped just short of the Fountain St grade crossing For Bing maps, click the Envelope "Share" Icon http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r7258v8923tq&lvl=18&dir=0&sty=b&form=LMLTCC I now see the common design traits - a pair(?) of long "grand shove/grand pull" tracks which are effectively the "inbound/outbound" interchange, creating a "pool" of cars from which the "ramp track yard" crew can pick (rakes of) empty cars from - autoracks are pulled from these "pool tracks", and placed as required on the "ramp tracks" - automobiles are un/loaded - Autoracks are spotted back on the "pool" tracks, for eventual interchange/pickup by the "Big RR" for haulage to "points anywhere" I know Dave will hate me for saying this, (and I know I'm already using the wrong terms for the various track locations), but I still see "'nook like" track arrangements here, and whether they get switched "proto-nook" style (looks like a 'nook, but gets switched following prototype rules and procedures) or following essentially the original Inglenook rules, (not proto by any stretch, but then again the original Inglenook rules weren't hung on any given prototype's operating practise anyway) is up to the modeller/operator/"switch crew" ... :-) NB that if we recast - the long 'nook track as the "pool yard" track (shrinking the 2-track "Pool yard" down to one common In/Outbound track, not proto, but vaguely plausible) - the 2x short 'nook tracks as the "ramp tracks" - gave a additional short spur for the Trackmobile to hide on/"get serviced" (bonus visual points, kick it back against the direction of the 'nook turnouts) - and add just enough trackage "offstage" beyond the "switchback limit" to hold a staged "Big RR" loco and I can't escape the feeling that we could model a very-squzzed-but-all-the-salient-points-present autorack yard. Forgo modelling the "Big RR Grand-pull/Grand-shove" interchange move, and we gain the linear length needed to hold the "Big RR locos" offstage, and can possibly put that linear length into gaining more Yard length. Add some extra width/depth to the "switching plank" (I shudder using the term, but y'all know what I'm talking 'bout ;-) ), and gain an extra "pool track", (now 4-tracks wide, and getting beyond a 'nook in the sheer trackage sense, BTW, Dave, are the 2 "pool tracks" individually designated "Inbound Track" and "Outbound Track", or are they just "2 tracks, to be used as required"?) And we gain a far more "proto" style of switching the facility. I also just realised something, ("Oh brother" I hear from the Gallery... ;-) ). A seasoned prototype railroader such as Dave could I'm sure glance at a 2x "pool track" + 2x "ramp track" autorack facility, see where the cars are spotted, and be able to immediately discern at what "stage in the loading process" the current cars were in. - Fresh set of cars just delivered by "Big RR", sitting on the "Pool tracks" awaiting switching onto the loading "ramp tracks" - cars being switched onto the "ramp tracks" in prep for loading - loading in progress - cars loaded, being switched back to the "Pool tracks" preping for departure - all cars on the "pool tracks", ready for departure, awaiting pickup/replacement by the "Big RR" (process starts again...) This gels with commentary from Jack Hill, who has highlighted the "predictable sequential repeditive, almost-boring-when-everything-is-working-as-intended" switching moves the pro railroader expects on a "normal day at work"... Lots to think about... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Canada Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Thanks for the explanation on the Maps URL's, Prof - and yes, those are CP locos near the gates leading to the grade crossing. If you pan left and right from Toyota, following the rail lines, you will find other sidings holding even more AutoRacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Anyone else noticed #3300 'United Way' lying dumped in the deadline just north of the Phoenix Autoramps? http://maps.google.c...psrc=6&t=h&z=21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Makes one wonder if a similar system could be in use for a small container yard "inglenook" NB - This was seen at an exhibition. and I found it in the web a couple of years ago - I have no idea who originated it, I'm afraid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Makes one wonder if a similar system could be in use for a small container yard "inglenook" NB - This was seen at an exhibition. and I found it in the web a couple of years ago - I have no idea who originated it, I'm afraid Dear Jack, ...although being containers, maybe it fits better with the "switch loads, not cars" ethos as documented by Carl A, and cross-purposed with OzTrainz John G's "Randim Stackem and Wrackem"? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yes John - very true - but it is just my cluttered mind kicking ideas around! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Ref the Toyota one, using a trackmobile and moving two cars per time presumably means you're not having to block that grade crossing as well...nice prototype! I think the problem you've potentially got is monotony. No matter what the size of the layout, its "play value" is going to increase depending on how much variety and other challenge you can give it. This is the sort of thing that might look good in a mag -- but so many layouts written up that way wind up getting sold off or scrapped as soon as they've been published. I think this is also a problem with a scaled-down industrial park, to tell the truth. Just pulling the corn syrup cars at the corn flake factory is going to get old before long, too. Going OT a bit here, but the same will go for any fixed formation model railroad...it might take you longer to get to that point with a basement full of it but eventually you'll get to that stage, and you'll want to rebuild or start again. The benefit of smaller layouts is that starting over is a lot easier... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Holmes Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Makes one wonder if a similar system could be in use for a small container yard "inglenook" NB - This was seen at an exhibition. and I found it in the web a couple of years ago - I have no idea who originated it, I'm afraid Interesting, I like the idea of using stacks of containers to hide the length of one of the sidings which itself has a hidden exit. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 It would work well with another track running down the back, hidden behind the background containers and feeding off the sector plate. It might be interesting with a Trackmobile for the motive power. There would be a good excuse for a Kibri Kalmar stacker too, rather than a Walthers Mi-Jack which might overwhelm the layout in a small size Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Canada Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Ref the Toyota one, using a trackmobile and moving two cars per time presumably means you're not having to block that grade crossing as well...nice prototype! Correct - there are high metal gates which are closed between CP train movements across Fountain Street so the Trackmobile can only pull cars back as far as those gates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Holmes Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 So I think we've proved that an Inglenook using Autoracks is feasible. Which has been a very interesting discussion in itself. I've learned a lot over the past few days. Now the Challenge is to make the layout interesting for people to watch. We know that Inglenooks are interesting to operate... Wether that be by hiding the ends of the loading sidings with part of the factory, thus obscuring the fact that the siding is only two cars long or by obstructing the view of the sidings with other autoracks. Clever lighting, interesting viewpoints are all things that make a simple layout interesting to watch. These facts apply to all simple layouts. for as has already been alluded to - A corn syrup car is a corn syrup car, A box car is a boxcar and an Autorack is an Autorack. If the layout has enough to keep folks interest they will pay attention to it. Just my two penn'orth Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Correct - there are high metal gates which are closed between CP train movements across Fountain Street so the Trackmobile can only pull cars back as far as those gates. So in one sense back to 'classic' inglenook layout design with no staging (or in this case more accurately on-scene staging from those ready tracks) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Ref the Toyota one, using a trackmobile and moving two cars per time presumably means you're not having to block that grade crossing as well...nice prototype! Going OT a bit here, but the same will go for any fixed formation model railroad...it might take you longer to get to that point with a basement full of it but eventually you'll get to that stage, and you'll want to rebuild or start again. The benefit of smaller layouts is that starting over is a lot easier... Well, I'm not sure. John Allen incorporated his first layout in two subsequent ones -- it seems to have met his needs all his life, and the concept of the later layouts was simply an extension of the first. John Armstrong started his layout around 1950, and it lasted his whole life -- its last tour was weeks before he passed away. I very much doubt that Allen McClelland would have rebuilt his Afton Division layout except for the requirements of his wife's health. Weren't there also noted UK modelers whose layouts also lasted a lifetime? I forget the name of the clerical gentleman who had a Great Central layout, for instance. I think a layout with a good concept can last a lifetime. Conversely, there are people who can't be satisfied and are constantly rebuilding, and not limited to this particular hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 ? I forget the name of the clerical gentleman who had a Great Central layout, for instance. Peter Denny, Buckingham. Interestingly in this context a 'route' layout in the US style Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Interesting bit of synergy with Buckingham coming up in two places at once! Conversely many of the ones I see in Model Railroader are either second (or third, or fourth) attempts, or the originators latest model, or having major rebuilds, or rethinks....the latest Model Railroader over here has a chap taking a saw through his layout on the cover even! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Also note that you were looking at the Toyota facility when it was obviously shut down or off production. Only railcars in the loading bays and there are almost as many cars in the employees parking lot as there are in the staging lots. If you want to see a couple busier locations look at Westfield, TX, there is a double ended facility on the west side of Hardy road and a single ended facility on the east side of Hardy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 It just dawned on me, you're thinking that trackmobile is what they use to switch that facility. Don't think so. If you look to the SW there are 2 railroad GP units sitting at the railroad yard. Trying to switch an auto ramp with a trackmobile would be, as my mother used say, "like shoveling ###### with a toothpick" (her dad was a general yardmaster on the TRRA). Her family had lots of colorful phrases. 8-) The plant is probably shut down to a parts shortage from Japan due to the tsunami. Similarly if you look at the Westfield facility (technically the Candleridge yard on the east side) there are the ramp switchers, two 2000 hp GP's (they are UP engines, not owned by the auto facility). The ramp tracks are probably about 5 cars long because thats about how far they like to drive the autos through the racks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 It just dawned on me, you're thinking that trackmobile is what they use to switch that facility. Don't think so. Dear Dave, Certainly not in the Texas example, (I get that "...everythings bigger in Texas..." ;-) ), or in the original Kia Manufacturing example (West Point, GA, with those 2 GAPS SW switchers on the property) but are we saying that the Cambridge ONT plant Trackmobiles are there for some reason _other_ than regular autorack switching duties? IE Is there some technical reason why the Trackmobiles cannot perform this work? If they are only moving 2 'racks at a time, at slow speed, on flat/minimal-grade trackage, and with their "weight-transfer" lifting-coupler system in play, could the load exceed the weight limits? I guess coupler-swing could be an issue, but the turnouts and curves look far bigger than most any "micro" layout I've personally seen... ;-) Confused again... (It doesn't take much these days...) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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