Heljan Beyer garratt

[Golden Fleece 30]

I have been collecting trains (BR outline in N, TT, 00), new and second hand since the late 50's and the only loco not to work is the one Heljan one I have, the Garratt.  I have said I will never have another Heljan (I don't really need more anyway) but can live without the 2-8-0.  Earlier on this thread someone said don't think because one loco was not fit for purpose they are all like that, mmmm seeing all the reports of the Tango's having problems I think I was correct.  Who wants scale looking but flimsy valve gear when it falls apart?  Certainly not me, give me good old fashioned Hornby Dublo anytime.  At least these are still running 60 years later not like a Garratt that some have lasted a couple of laps of the track and my own a couple of hours.

 

Garry

Edited October 4, 2016 by Golden Fleece 30

[Ian Hargrave]

I have been collecting trains (BR outline in N, TT, 00), new and second hand since the late 50's and the only loco not to work is the one Heljan one I have, the Garratt.  I have said I will never have another Heljan (I don't really need more anyway) but can live without the 2-8-0.  Earlier on this thread someone said don't think because one loco was not fit for purpose they are all like that, mmmm seeing all the reports of the Tango's having problems I think I was correct.  Who wants scale looking but flimsy valve gear when it falls apart?  Certainly not me, give me good old fashioned Hornby Dublo anytime.  At least these are still running 60 years later not like a Garratt that some have lasted a couple of laps of the track and my own a couple of hours.

 

Garry

Try Hornby for dodgy valve gear,as in my newly acquired Q6.a part of which jammed the movement of the model when it immediately came adrift,in my experience not an uncommon happening with Hornby.You can't really judge a model unless you are prepared to step up to the plate,buy one yourself and run it.I have two O2's,remembering it takes two to Tango.Neither presents any problems.

If you are happy with HD then bully for you. Each to his own.The Garratt was one thing.The O2 quite another.It is also worth repeating here that the O2 was produced in collaboration with a number of members of this forum.

[Golden Fleece 30]

 The O2 quite another.It is also worth repeating here that the O2 was produced in collaboration with a number of members of this forum.

 

It seems to still have a lot of issues/problems reading the Forum.  You may have two without issues, some people still have Garratts without issues but success/runners %wise  Heljan are way down the list.

 

I have the modern Hornby B1, a couple of K1's, a Standard 5, M/Navy and Princess most of which are now 3-railed so I have stepped up to the plate and bought some as you say, and happy with them.

[Stevelewis]

I have been collecting trains (BR outline in N, TT, 00), new and second hand since the late 50's and the only loco not to work is the one Heljan one I have, the Garratt.  I have said I will never have another Heljan (I don't really need more anyway) but can live without the 2-8-0.  Earlier on this thread someone said don't think because one loco was not fit for purpose they are all like that, mmmm seeing all the reports of the Tango's having problems I think I was correct.  Who wants scale looking but flimsy valve gear when it falls apart?  Certainly not me, give me good old fashioned Hornby Dublo anytime.  At least these are still running 60 years later not like a Garratt that some have lasted a couple of laps of the track and my own a couple of hours.

 

Garry

 

I too have  been  collecting  model  railways both  UK  &  Continental  &USA & Japanese since  the  50s. in scales  Z to  G

 

It  is  inevitable  that  along  the  way there  have  been  some  that  were  not  to  brilliant,   however  I think  that  is not  fair  to  knock  Heljan,  who  in my  opinion have  produced an excellent  range  of locos  over  several  years  now ,   in several  scales.  If  you  want  to  see  real  quality  take  a  look  at a  Heljan  H0  Danish  outline steam  or  diesel  loco.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Sorry Steve but not into foreign outline locos and stock.  Regarding Heljan I am going on the two BR steam outlines they have produced as I am not really interested in diesels either so 2 out of 2 with issues to me is not good, to others it may be okay as Ian said "each to their own".

[Ian Hargrave]

It seems to still have a lot of issues/problems reading the Forum.  You may have two without issues, some people still have Garratts without issues but success/runners %wise  Heljan are way down the list.

 

I have the modern Hornby B1, a couple of K1's, a Standard 5, M/Navy and Princess most of which are now 3-railed so I have stepped up to the plate and bought some as you say, and happy with them.

If you look back through the O2 thread you will see little recent activity and before that complaints from very few,some from those who have chosen to work on the running gear of their own volition.The Tango had a bad start in life as was duly chronicled here way back at the beginning of the year.That gave it a bad name,so much so that I was sceptical of making a purchase which I did only after an exchange of valuable information with members of this forum.I took a risk that I was....and still am not..... prepared to take with the Garratt.The risk paid off.

I do not believe from what little there really is on this thread that you can conclude that it has issues in quite such negative proportions.

Sorry.I think you are making a wrong call.

[Andy Y]

I've been having a chat with Hatton's wondering if there was a wider issue; seemingly very few people have actually been in touch with any individual issues and virtually nothing recently.

 

They do have some stock set by from which to satisfy any customers who have any problems with a Garratt which means that if you have a problem you can get in touch and they will be happy to help even if any stated warranty period has expired; especially if the approach is reasonable and courteous as some of the veiled threats of legal action mentioned would be seemingly unnecessary to seek a resolution.

[rockershovel]

I took my 1960s Hornby 2-6-4T to the club test track last week, it ran round happily (if VERY noisy) pulling 6 assorted bogie vehicles..

[Hilux5972]

I took my 1960s Hornby 2-6-4T to the club test track last week, it ran round happily (if VERY noisy) pulling 6 assorted bogie vehicles..

What has that got to do with the Heljan Beyer Garrett?

[Golden Fleece 30]

rockershovel, on 11 Oct 2016 - 11:34, said:

I took my 1960s Hornby 2-6-4T to the club test track last week, it ran round happily (if VERY noisy) pulling 6 assorted bogie vehicles..

 

What has that got to do with the Heljan Beyer Garrett?

 

It could be he was trying to say how good a very old loco ran compared to a modern one which is part of this topic as I related to my 50's and 60's locos giving no trouble compared to the Heljan Beyer Garratt I have. I very much doubt any of these Garratts will be around in 50 or 60 years time let alone still working if they can stop after an hour or so lol.

[lee74clarke]

I've been having a chat with Hatton's wondering if there was a wider issue; seemingly very few people have actually been in touch with any individual issues and virtually nothing recently.

 

They do have some stock set by from which to satisfy any customers who have any problems with a Garratt which means that if you have a problem you can get in touch and they will be happy to help even if any stated warranty period has expired; especially if the approach is reasonable and courteous as some of the veiled threats of legal action mentioned would be seemingly unnecessary to seek a resolution.

That's interesting Andy. I spoke to them about a problem with my Garratt, (it was the 2nd I had, the first failure being covered by warranty) and was told it was out of warranty, they couldn't help (wouldn't help?) no spares were available from them (mine has thrown some valve gear) and I could try Heljan in Denmark.

I was civil about it and offered to pay for a repair as I knew it was out of warranty.

Disappointing really, I haven't managed to carry out a decent repair, but am lucky enough that a certain Mr. Wright who writes on here has offered to have a crack at it.

Thing that concerns me is, so yes, we can get it running again, but for how long?

As I say, disappointing, but there you go. Not sure if I'm being a bit petty, but I haven't purchased anything from Hattons since.

 

Regards

Lee

[Downendian]

I've been having a chat with Hatton's wondering if there was a wider issue; seemingly very few people have actually been in touch with any individual issues and virtually nothing recently.

 

They do have some stock set by from which to satisfy any customers who have any problems with a Garratt which means that if you have a problem you can get in touch and they will be happy to help even if any stated warranty period has expired; especially if the approach is reasonable and courteous as some of the veiled threats of legal action mentioned would be seemingly unnecessary to seek a resolution.

Thanks Andy.

I did just that and contacted Hattons. They've advised to return the errant end - which is out of warranty - and they will repair. In my situation they cannot do better than that, so I'm impressed with the quick response to my concerns. Will post next week when I'm back in Bristol.

Neil

[rockershovel]

What has that got to do with the Heljan Beyer Garrett?

.... because it was bought as a toy, has been passed around the family and is still going strong - including the full Walschaerts valve gear!

[lee74clarke]

Thanks Andy.

I did just that and contacted Hattons. They've advised to return the errant end - which is out of warranty - and they will repair. In my situation they cannot do better than that, so I'm impressed with the quick response to my concerns. Will post next week when I'm back in Bristol.

Neil

Interesting Neil, I'll give them another whirl

Lee

[46256]

In an idle moment just typed in Heljan Garratt....to my surprise I see another uk retailer is offering the full range...further info reveals these locos were returned to Heljan...somehow found thier way to this retailer who states has remotered them and now offering at £240 apiece........

[Nelson Jackson]

In an idle moment just typed in Heljan Garratt....to my surprise I see another uk retailer is offering the full range...further info reveals these locos were returned to Heljan...somehow found thier way to this retailer who states has remotered them and now offering at £240 apiece........

That would be this company, depending on the quality of the motor, it's not a bad price if they run faultlessly http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Heljan/Heljan-beyer-garratts/

[rockershovel]

One thing which does occur to me - my previously smooth-running Bachman 2-8-0 developed a marked "knock" in the running gear which was traced to slight deformation of the motion, which can only have been due to handling. I have no recollection of anything which might have caused this, but the conclusion is inescapable.

 

The Garratt is, presumably, fairly delicate to rail - being quite long, with two pivots. I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this?

[46256]

As per a previous post, I have replaced the motors supplied courtesy of a friend more accomplished than I in model engineering. The cost of his time and the mashima replacements £250 ....I would have paid this initially to have a good motor in this visually stunning model. In repeat of valve gear....the refining of valve gear by all the manufacturers in recent times has made this area of our models vulnerable. The Hornby Dublo model mentioned as a comparison ....had for its time a fair but robust version of valve gear...I fear we have lost that strength in pursuit of accuracy....

[rodger5591]

That would be this company, depending on the quality of the motor, it's not a bad price if they run faultlessly http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Heljan/Heljan-beyer-garratts/

 

One company's misfortune is another company's opportunity!

 

A good deal if the pony derailing problem is attended to as well, and even better if they are willing to buy back non-functioning locos from the public or trade them against a reduced price reconditioned one.

 

I wonder how many Rails expect to sell at this price: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heljan-OO-GAUGE-266211-BR-BLACK-BEYER-GARRATT-STEAM-LOCOMOTIVE-WEATHERED-6O-/131951348679?hash=item1eb8e9cbc7

 

Mine still soldiers on bravely working its schedule and it is by far the best loco for hauling the weekly CMX track cleaning train, which involves a lot of forward/reverse running in and out of sidings and climbing a 1:50 gradient. Though I am mentally prepared to have to replace the motors myself one day, if (when) the need arises.

[Ian Hargrave]

Rails have the unfortunate attitude of hiking their asking prices for most of their ebay sale locos to ludicrous levels.However,they are still in business to make a healthy profit .If punters are still inclined to buy them  then that's their decision.

The Olivia's venture into the chequered career of the Garratt is a second attempt having returned a job lot back to Hattons a while back as unfit for purpose.The claim that they were returned to Heljan is I think in truth mistaken.Probably back across the Pennines to Liverpool.

 

The price is realistic and fair....backed by a reassuringly generous warranty. I would be interested to know the pedigree of the replacement motors though.This can only be positive news.

[Ian Hargrave]

One thing which does occur to me - my previously smooth-running Bachman 2-8-0 developed a marked "knock" in the running gear which was traced to slight deformation of the motion, which can only have been due to handling. I have no recollection of anything which might have caused this, but the conclusion is inescapable.

 

The Garratt is, presumably, fairly delicate to rail - being quite long, with two pivots. I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this?

Is there not somewhere a container and railing cradle on sale for these? I seem to remember a post on this a while ago.

[rockershovel]

Is there not somewhere a container and railing cradle on sale for these? I seem to remember a post on this a while ago.

Could be; easy to miss in 90-plus pages.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

One thing which does occur to me - my previously smooth-running Bachman 2-8-0 developed a marked "knock" in the running gear which was traced to slight deformation of the motion, which can only have been due to handling. I have no recollection of anything which might have caused this, but the conclusion is inescapable.

 

The Garratt is, presumably, fairly delicate to rail - being quite long, with two pivots. I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this?

 It really is very simple.

 

Great over scale lumps and coarse appearance per 'old reliable' of the H-D/Wrenn/Triang era.

 

Or something far closer to scale dimensions with resulting superior appearance on the model: the penalty being the greatly increased care required.

 

Pays your money, makes your choice.

 

Those of us who choose the latter path quickly learn that not handling the model except in case of real need is the way to go. On the layout, and leave it there.

[amdaley]

Is there not somewhere a container and railing cradle on sale for these? I seem to remember a post on this a while ago.

Dcc Concepts makes a few different sizes I think.

[46256]

You need to read the O2 thread as to build and design quality etc etc . The Class 14 motor burn outs are another example of the "quality" of their products.

funny you should mention this....I need to purchase a class 14 to complete my quest to have one of every type that went through Water Orton during my modelled period late 1950 to 75. I've just investigated purchasing a Heljan one ....to find the previously mentioned company offering remotored ones....I take it a similiar problem to the Garratts?....the irony for me if modelled correctly the 14s in real life were being hauled as part of freight trains to their new owners in the north east. An unmotored one would be appropriate....but I do like things to run ...