RMweb Premium Jamiel Posted March 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2016 I don't think this is planned obsolescence, it is probably making the loco for too lower price for the numbers in the run. I would presume Hattons researched a price people wanted, and then said to Heljan 'can we make it for that' and they said 'yes' without thinking it through. Two 2-6-0 loco under-frames, and a top more complex than many existing locos, plus a way of holding it all together, and assuming that both motors would run at exactly the same speed at that price, with DCC control and a few lights chucked in.It was always an expensive individual buy for the consumer, but compared to what all that would cost normally, it was too much to for a manufacturer at that price. I think they might have misjudged the market, looking at the Dapol Black Label A4s and the Rail Exclusive Class 24 Diesels which offer sometime special, but at a special price. I think is retrospect the Garrett would probably have been better aimed at that market, starting with reliability and adding on bells and whistles to make it have that detail, but would there have been a market for a £350 plus niche huge goods engine?What we have is something like the equivalent of two Hornby Railroad 9Fs tied together in the hope that they will run at the same speed with two cut price motors and one not drag the other to a burn out (an that is really being rather unfair to the Hornby 9Fs).Perhaps our best hope is that one of the small manufacturers sees the Garratt as an opportunity to offer an upgrade, refurbish, or basic maintenance service if there are enough people out there willing to pay for that. It would seem likely that this would again be expensive, as in order to avoid the locos being sent back all the time, they might have to do a full re-motor and re-chassis, probably plus new valve gear, in order to achieve a level of reliability.Perhaps the future for the Garrets is parked in engine sheds looking very impressive but not moving, and only pulling trains on the layouts we see on this forum (P4, EM and the like) where the most skilled modellers have the ability to rebuild them into something much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Though I only run my Garrett very rarely (representing the number of times I actually saw them run to our NW end of the Midland through the Peak) I'd be very disappointed to find it die before I do. Can I ask? Has anyone discovered and posted "an average modeller's" recipe for re-motoring the engine. It sits above me on the shelf as I type, a splendid pile of weathered 'Gorton buggered up by Derby'. dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Yes motors are cheap enough although mines still running on the original motors, these ones fit. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121498330930?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT My little motors arrived today. They fit nicely although the shaft may be a tad too long. Tested the motors out of the loco, start up smoothly and seem to have plenty of torque. Also looks like it may be a nice motor to fit high up in a boiler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted March 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2016 As the Garrett is a Hatton's commission maybe this thread should now be moved to the Hatton's section of Retailers Commissions. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 One possible outcome of this saga, though, may be that Hattons - and other commissioners - will take more care over quality control in the first place. Given the number that had to be repaired within the warranty period, that will have eaten considerably into their profit margin. Ditto for Heljan, if Hattons were able to pass on the cost of replacement motors to them. I suspect that neither will have made a great deal of money out of this particular model. Personally, I'm reasonably sanguine about the prospect of having to remotor mine, at least as long as suitable motors are available. I'm familiar enough with the innards of model locos to be confident enough of doing it if necessary, and previous posts to this thread have suggested that this one isn't particularly difficult in that respect. I'm more annoyed about the potential cost of buying new motors. I'd have preferred to pay a bit more for the model to begin with and have better qaulity components built in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted March 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2016 One possible outcome of this saga, though, may be that Hattons - and other commissioners - will take more care over quality control in the first place. Given the number that had to be repaired within the warranty period, that will have eaten considerably into their profit margin. Ditto for Heljan, if Hattons were able to pass on the cost of replacement motors to them. I suspect that neither will have made a great deal of money out of this particular model. Personally, I'm reasonably sanguine about the prospect of having to remotor mine, at least as long as suitable motors are available. I'm familiar enough with the innards of model locos to be confident enough of doing it if necessary, and previous posts to this thread have suggested that this one isn't particularly difficult in that respect. I'm more annoyed about the potential cost of buying new motors. I'd have preferred to pay a bit more for the model to begin with and have better qaulity components built in. Agreed - anyone who has one of these locos and hasn't stockpiled a couple of those incredibly cheap replacement motors; http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT ; has more faith than I have !! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Agreed - anyone who has one of these locos and hasn't stockpiled a couple of those incredibly cheap replacement motors; http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT ; has more faith than I have !! Regards, John Isherwood. That's a really helpful link - I've just placed an order for a couple! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolkblue Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Whereabouts are you? I'm in Cambs and could have a look I'm close to Thetford? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolkblue Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Is it possible for you to give more information? If it just stopped running then it could be something simple like a broken connection, or were there any indications of problems before it stopped like juddering for example? Is it digital or analogue? It was running perfectly but appeared to stall when the front section was over a track feed. When pushed forward slightly it restarted, completed another circuit of my layout before stopping in the same place. I thought it was a track problem but other loco's worked perfectly over the same section. The BG stalled again in the same place but this time there was a small 'pop' noise and after that the loco was completely dead. I'm running basic DC. Thanks for your message! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolkblue Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Is there anyone in your area that advertises doing loco repairs, and has a good reputation? This may be a question to be asked under a new thread on the web, possible someone who has experience with Heljan repairs? Gordon A Hi Gordon, I'm new to Norfolk so don't really know! I will ask around to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Though I only run my Garrett very rarely (representing the number of times I actually saw them run to our NW end of the Midland through the Peak) I'd be very disappointed to find it die before I do. Can I ask? Has anyone discovered and posted "an average modeller's" recipe for re-motoring the engine. It sits above me on the shelf as I type, a splendid pile of weathered 'Gorton buggered up by Derby'. dh Go back through the B-G thread (it might not be this one?), I posted a comprehensive strip down that I did for a repaint. During the re-assembly I noted various things, and got it back together ok. Never had a problem with mine except of my making. Also someone posted an ebay link to spare motors and I bought a couple, they might still be available. My honest opinion is that they will never be needed, I don't believe the motors are faulty (with the odd exception you find in anything). I feel the motors burn out because the chassis locks up due to valve gear coming adrift, I had this after I re-assembled. No-one seems to have proven the definitive answer though, but I still believe they are not the rogue item often portrayed. Minor QC faults yes, that can lead to catastrophic failure if not spotted in time. Stewart (no time to search for my post at present, but will do later if you cannot find it) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 It was running perfectly but appeared to stall when the front section was over a track feed. When pushed forward slightly it restarted, completed another circuit of my layout before stopping in the same place. I thought it was a track problem but other loco's worked perfectly over the same section. The BG stalled again in the same place but this time there was a small 'pop' noise and after that the loco was completely dead. I'm running basic DC. Thanks for your message! Sounds like something on the PC board went. Are both ends dead? If it is this, it should be easy to resolve by hard wiring it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jamiel Posted March 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2016 Agreed - anyone who has one of these locos and hasn't stockpiled a couple of those incredibly cheap replacement motors; http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT ; has more faith than I have !! Regards, John Isherwood. Too late all sold, but thanks for the link. Maybe more will appear in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Too late all sold, but thanks for the link. Maybe more will appear in time. They will, they usually relist them within the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2016 Too late all sold, but thanks for the link. Maybe more will appear in time. they do reappear from time to time . Currently there are still a small number available from two other sellers in in Australia though slightly more expensive. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=Model+N60-2535&_sacat=0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Because I 3-railed mine it was hot wired from the start, its not run often, too many locos, but is still the same as it was. It is in fact stronger than the new Dublo special Garratt, that slips with what the Heljan one takes in its stride easily. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 It was running perfectly but appeared to stall when the front section was over a track feed. When pushed forward slightly it restarted, completed another circuit of my layout before stopping in the same place. I thought it was a track problem but other loco's worked perfectly over the same section. The BG stalled again in the same place but this time there was a small 'pop' noise and after that the loco was completely dead. I'm running basic DC. Thanks for your message! The more I think about, the more I believe there is something wrong with the circuitry of you locomotive. I was curious by the fact that you state, the loco behaved fine when it was completely one side or the other of the power supply but not when it was over it. Now this beast has some complex wiring, you have two chassis with motors and pickups. All of this runs wires back and forth to Central PCB. It is like as if, as the two chassis straddle the power supply, the polarity of power coming from the two chassis is reversed causing it stall and eventually overheat and burn out the PCB. In a simple set up, this is impossible.... But we are looking at a complex model, with complex pickups. It also has lights, diodes that allow current to flow one way and not the other. There are also other elements, such as pre fitted speaker, 2 motors... It's a complex circuit. My hunch, you have a pick up failure on one part of one chassis, power roots itself back through a diode/motor, reversing polarity on part of the circuit causing the loco to stall, overheat and eventually pop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Its worth checking Hattons website occasionally. About a month ago more than 20 garratts appeared on the site, brand new £200 a piece, I took the oppy to get a 2nd. They didn't last more than a day and I thought thats it. Then lo and behold about 2 weeks ago another dozen appeared, all brand new, all variants at £200 a pop again. That lot didn't last more than a day either. No idea what I'm going to do with a 2nd garratt.. I haven't used the 1st yet. Edited March 20, 2016 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2016 There is one there now but it is £300 http://www.ehattons.com/185923/Heljan_266202_HD_Beyer_Garratt_2_6_0_0_6_2_4978_LMS_std_bunker_pony_wheel_brake_1930_32_Lightly_/StockDetail.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 There is one there now but it is £300 http://www.ehattons.com/185923/Heljan_266202_HD_Beyer_Garratt_2_6_0_0_6_2_4978_LMS_std_bunker_pony_wheel_brake_1930_32_Lightly_/StockDetail.aspx And that has been on there for quite a while (Surprise surprise!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 There is one there now but it is £300 http://www.ehattons.com/185923/Heljan_266202_HD_Beyer_Garratt_2_6_0_0_6_2_4978_LMS_std_bunker_pony_wheel_brake_1930_32_Lightly_/StockDetail.aspx They're having a laugh with a price like that. A bit of a cheek really after the fiasco that was their original Garrett. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Does anyone know if their pre-owned stuff come with some form of shop warranty ? I would be weary paying a top end price for a second hand item at least without seeing it in the flesh first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2016 Its worth checking Hattons website occasionally. About a month ago more than 20 garratts appeared on the site, brand new £200 a piece, I took the oppy to get a 2nd. They didn't last more than a day and I thought thats it. Then lo and behold about 2 weeks ago another dozen appeared, all brand new, all variants at £200 a pop again. That lot didn't last more than a day either. No idea what I'm going to do with a 2nd garratt.. I haven't used the 1st yet. Play a game of Russian Roulette ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Play a game of Russian Roulette ? What, in which only one of the revolver chambers is empty? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Hey 1 in 6 aint bad odds Edited March 21, 2016 by Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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