Talking Detectors

[JWB]

I've been playing around with talking defect detector message recordings, which are fairly easy to find on the web, for instance http://www.trainweb.org/wnyrhs/Cp5555.wav

 

There seem to be several ways to incorporate these as a layout feature. There is at least one product that simulates the detection activity, and every set number of activations, it puts out a defect message. I don't think I want to go that far, but I do like the idea of an audible message that tells me a train has passed a certain point on my layout, which is big enough that I can't see all of it at once.

 

I found a "classic" SP detector message from the 1980s and 90s on the web, and one sound module manufacturer said he'd load the wav file onto one of his modules at no extra charge, so I'm going ahead with that. It seems to me that you wouldn't want this kind of thing on a small layout, since it would drive you up the wall pretty quickly, though on a large layout or a fremo type setup, it could actually be useful.

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear JWB,

 

"Talking Defect Detectors" is a common repeating theme over on the "LayoutSound" yahoogroup.

There are example files, "how tos", and suggestions on the hardware required to get the requested triggering...

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LayoutSound/

 

If you're looking for a basic triggerable sound module, many modellers use the ISD based unit by ITTC

http://ittproducts.com/

 

George Solvey has been known to do "at the request of the purchaser" loading of given sound files, if you ask nice...

 

However, if you want something better than 8-bit 8Khz that the ISD modules can offer,

(and I've yet to meet a modeller who wasn't dis-appointed by the performance of said ISD systems...)

 

suggest you check out the FantaSonics/Pricom Dream Player, a CD-spec digital audio player featuring user loading via regular SD cards (same like you use in your still digital camera), designed specifically for MRR missions!

http://www.fantasonics.com/scaledreams/player.html

 

http://www.pricom.com/Trains/DreamPlayer.shtml

 

And, here's some examples/"sonic kitbashing" fodder

http://www.alabamarailfan.com/live-scanner.php

 

http://milepost1147.2.railfan.net/pages/sounds.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=defect+detector&aq=1&oq=defect

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

 

PS be real careful, after a few hours listening/editing/tweaking Defect Detector messages,

you may find yourself responding to regular household situations in "Detector Speak".

I've even known some non-train people to break into the style on railfan drives and similar missions...

[AndrewC]

Strange things happening. My first reply vanished into the etha.

 

If you don't want to bash something together there is a complete talking detector known as the "Trainboss" from Boulder Creek Engineering in Colorado. Clicky

 

I'm seriously considering one of these for my layout.

[Prof Klyzlr]

Strange things happening. My first reply vanished into the etha.

 

If you don't want to bash something together there is a complete talking detector known as the "Trainboss" from Boulder Creek Engineering in Colorado. Clicky

 

I'm seriously considering one of these for my layout.

 

Dear Andrew,

 

Looks great,

love the axle-count integration,

pity it doesn't allow user-loadable/proto sounds

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

[JWB]

Thanks for the info on the Layout Sound group. I opened a thread about this on another forum at http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=3440&forum_id=20&jump_to=38938#p38938 and got a reply about the Boulder Creek Engineering unit:

It does a lot more than randomly announce a defect. It also gives the train speed and an axle count. Train speed information is very helpful for those who tend to run too slow or too fast. A simple playback machine will not give you that information. On a typical Saturday, we will run 16 to 20 trains through the detector. The average freight train length is over 50 cars so there are over 200 axles. It is fairly rare that a "defect" is called out. When a "defect" does occurs, the rules state that the train must proceed at reduced speed to the nearest place to set out the bad car. Since the defect is not real, we do not require that the engineer set out the exact car that was called for (that's a lot of axle counting), just set out any car. These fake defects are mainly a problem for the dispatcher who is trying to get trains over the road. We generally have very few real problems so a routine through freight can be a little mundane and boring. An occasional fake defect livens things up a little. If things are too busy, we can always ignore the fake defect.

I can see this if you've got a group of guys who, to put things delicately, may not have enough to do! In my case, if I'm running by myself, or running for an open house, I've got plenty to do and would rather just rely on the auditory input that the train has reached spot X on the layout without a problem. The train speed would be a nice-to-have, but not worth a hundred bucks over and above the ITTC unit I've ordered. Sound quality -- I'll have to see. But remember that you hear the detector over a portable railfan scanner, which ain't that good quality to start with.

 

This is probably related to what you want to do with the feature. I trained for a job once where they said you've got to use all your senses -- listen for the problem as well as look for it. That's sort of my ultimate interest in the talking detector for my layout, and I'm less interested in church bells, thunderstorms, sirens, or whatever else. But others naturally have other emphases.

[dave1905]

The easiest way is to say your detectors are set to "talk on defect only". 8-)

[Prof Klyzlr]

Thanks for the info on the Layout Sound group. I opened a thread about this on another forum at http://freerails.com...to=38938#p38938 and got a reply about the Boulder Creek Engineering unit:

 

I can see this if you've got a group of guys who, to put things delicately, may not have enough to do! In my case, if I'm running by myself, or running for an open house, I've got plenty to do and would rather just rely on the auditory input that the train has reached spot X on the layout without a problem. The train speed would be a nice-to-have, but not worth a hundred bucks over and above the ITTC unit I've ordered. Sound quality -- I'll have to see. But remember that you hear the detector over a portable railfan scanner, which ain't that good quality to start with.

 

This is probably related to what you want to do with the feature. I trained for a job once where they said you've got to use all your senses -- listen for the problem as well as look for it. That's sort of my ultimate interest in the talking detector for my layout, and I'm less interested in church bells, thunderstorms, sirens, or whatever else. But others naturally have other emphases.

 

Dear JWB,

 

If you have a look at the various "Defect Detector Fan pages" online,

you'll quickly note a lot of comments regarding the actual voice recordings,

who the RR used for their voices,

the cadence and specific phrasing,

and the "oddballs" when a detector is not programmed correctly, or has a fault condition.

 

Agreed that it's "horses for courses",

but the voice of the BCE manufacturer reading out the defect notice really doesn't match any known detector I've heard,

and if one is modelling a detector from anything purporting to be a "prototype installation",

(IE from a known prototype RR, during a given era),

then getting the voice right is logically a high priority.

 

I'd also much prefer to be able to design _in_ any "radio S.U.C. (Sounds Under Constraints) procesing" to the audio files,

rather than have such 8-bit grunge applied by the system.

(As shown by the DreamPlayer, a solid-state digital audio player with CD spec resolution is entirely possible...

as to why soo many "model RR sound" products refuse to step-up to what the domestic user considers "normal" spec audio I'm yet to discover...)

 

That said, totally agree that the BCE solution is a "plug n play" deal which would definitely bring some additional life to an op session... ;-)

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

[JWB]

Actually I'm really fond of the original "SP detector" voice (a lady), and I'm delighted that I found a recording on the web and that Soloway was able to put it on the module he sold me. On the other hand, I never heard it on anything but a cheapo scanner, so I'm not going to worry about concert-hall quality. (The SP, by the way, used the female voice on most detectors, but apparently in the desert the crews would say bawdy things in response to the message, and the SP had to replace the voice on those detectors with a guy, because bad language over the air was a violation of Federal radio rules.)

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear JWB,

 

Hmmm, UP/SP detector connection to StarTrek???

(the female voice is...)

 

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2323700

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

[JWB]

The former SP lady isn't the same as the current UP lady. The SP lady was much more schoolmarmish, which lent a "no nonsense" air to the messages. You can find this at http://freightyard.net/SLOBoes/SPDetector1.wav I rode to Oakland on the Coast Starlight many times with a scanner listening to this every 20 miles or so. . .

[Prof Klyzlr]

The former SP lady isn't the same as the current UP lady. The SP lady was much more schoolmarmish, which lent a "no nonsense" air to the messages. You can find this at http://freightyard.net/SLOBoes/SPDetector1.wav I rode to Oakland on the Coast Starlight many times with a scanner listening to this every 20 miles or so. . .

 

 

Dear JWB,

 

...and it's the fact that you remember, can identify, and have a personal connection with a specific "detector voice" which is what I was/am pointing at with the "wish the BCE unit could support user-loadable sound files".

(The BCE unit with the voice of the BCE manufacturer speaking the messages will be nice from an operational P.o.V., but will never "match your recollection" of the detector you heard while riding the Starlight...)

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

[Glorious NSE]

Tough one this...

 

The recorded message version couldn't give you things like an accurate axle count (i'm not sure I need it to be *exactly* accurate but it would sound pretty silly announcing 226 axles when you've just gone past with a light loco....)

 

Not sure about 'not enough to do' either, to my mind it's a realistic 'spanner in the works' to your finely tuned operating session (or the next level of chaos, depending on how it's going!)

 

But the clever bit of kit as pointed out doesn't sound 'processed' enough to be a real detector, and for our use i'd also want it to be broadcasting that properly on the radio not on a speaker locally...

 

Easier not to bother then, or just do a generic 'Detector. Milepost XX.X. No. Defects. BEEEP.'?

[JWB]

Obviously, the tastes and objectives of individuals are going to play a major role here, as the Prof points out. The SP message doesn't give an axle count, but it does say "two seven miles per hour", which is reasonable for the territory on my layout where it will be located. It's a fun project and not necessarily a big-bucks item.

[Glorious NSE]

The 'speed check' would definately be easier to get away with, although I wouldn't want our operators to use it as an excuse that they could go even faster.

[dave1905]

Detectors can be programmed to say lots of things, incuding axle count, direction, speed, temperature and location in addition to whether a defect was found or not. Some detectors have an entrance message and an exit message, some have just an exit message and some no message at all (talk on defect only).

 

Early defect detectors had light arrays. First with four lights, one on the cabin to indicate power on, and an array of three lights horizontal, the center on indicated dragging equipment, and the two outer ones a hotbox (indicating which side). Later they incorporated a large display of lights for the axle count.