trisonic Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 In a surprise development and Father's Day testimonial my Wife gave me an Atlas GP38-2. Remarkable little beastie, this is part of their Silver Series _ I thought they were all "Trainman" are they the same? Anyway it is a beautiful little model finished in the blue and yellow of Santa Fe (my personal favourite). The interesting thing is, the details. Everything (normally fitted to models) has been installed including the front and rear pipes and mu trunking except the sunshades and the front plow........so to fit the plow one must weave through pipe and mu trunking details. Anyone done this already with these particular model to save my cursing? By the way, I haven't opened it up yet but it appears from the exploded drawing that it is capable of handling speakers in the new stereo format (even though it has an 8-pin plug)..............I'll have to have a look at Tony's Trains. Very nice model if you are humming and hawing over it. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Dear Pete, The 8-pin plug doesn't carry speaker signals IIRC, so there would be other wiring to do... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I don't suppose you have a P2K version to compare it too do you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I think you might be a bit confused Trisonic. Atlas do a GP38 (1966-1972 EMD production) - that's been in a few lines since being launched around 10 years ago, originally it came with their swtchable DCC on board for example, but recently as Silver/Gold versions - it's a great model, and it comes with all the bits. That's what you have from the sound of both the model and the box it's in. Atlas also do a GP38-2 (the post 1972 version of the same loco - although the details best match 'late' versions of the type) and that's in their Trainman series at a much lower price (usually) and without all the fiddly bits. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 I think you might be a bit confused Trisonic. HTH Ha! Yes, totally true and you did help! It is not a -2. I have to say that this is a very fine model. The "truck" detail is truly extraordinary, just compare the brake actuators with the recent ghastly "Lion"......... Seriously this has to be one of the finest r-t-r mass produced Locos I've seen. What is the significant difference between the GP38 and the "-2"? Were all GP38's updated? Santa Fe has a locomotive detailed website, I think....... It just goes to show (me) how much more there is to learn. Much humbled, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 It is not a -2. I have to say that this is a very fine model. The "truck" detail is truly extraordinary, just compare the brake actuators with the recent ghastly "Lion"......... They are really nice, it's a "sister' loco in the Atlas range to the GP40 which is to exactly the same standard. They were IIRC the first of the 'modern generation' of Atlas loco's with good quality detailing added. http://www.atlasrr.com/hoproducts.htm will give you the run history, the GP40 was first released in 1999, the GP38 in 2000. They do high hood versions of both as well....they are not just nice models, but they are of something you can't really have too many of. (And if anyone knows of anyone selling the Iowa Interstate pair they ran a few years back please let me know! ) What is the significant difference between the GP38 and the "-2"? Were all GP38's updated? Santa Fe has a locomotive detailed website, I think....... Operationally? Not a lot. Effectively in 1972 EMD brought in a whole host of upgrades (detail differences in modelling terms!) and the existing models became xx-2. Some looked nearly the same like these, some were radically different (SD45 to SD45-2 is a good example, they look nothing like each other beyond the EMD family resemblance!) - standard differences are things like trucks, cabs etc... I'd expect that most GP38s still running will have had rebuilds and upgrades to make them mechanically/electrically the same quality as GP38-2 or better, but unless the railroad's managed to wreck the loco the bodyshell will likely not have changed a lot with that process - excepting things like trucks or fans might be swapped for maintainence. Visually? Between the models almost everything, but at the same time very little if that makes sense! There are different looking components all over, but the overall look is very similar. Well, somebody once said that EMD stood for 'Every Model Different' and there's a fair bit of truth in that! The frames I think are a slightly different length. A dash-2 cab is different, so is the blower duct. Fans have a different spacing, different trucks (assuming the -2 isn't running on trade-ins that is) - By the time the 'late' bodystyle that the Trainman GP38-2 is came along you also have different radiator grilles and fans, a longer nose and a pointy anticlimber to let you get around it! Loads of differences, but from a railroad point of view both are 2000hp 4 axle geeps...the first one was just the standard catalogue model from 1966-1972, the second the standard catalogue model from 1972 into the 80s... I'll try and sort some photo links... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I'm not sure if it was a difference between GP38's and 38-2's, but I'm sure I've been told that the short hoods were of different lengths on some of them...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 GP38 http://www.trainpix.com/BN/EMDORIG/GP38/2077.HTM 81" nose, blomberg B trucks (with the outside shoes removed, which happenned a lot!) 'early' GP38-2 (Athearn) http://www.trainpix.com/BN/EMDORIG/GP38-2/2082.HTM 81" nose, blomberg M trucks, dash 2 style cab and blower duct, spaced rear fans, 'grille' radiator grille 'late' GP38-2 (Trainman) http://www.trainpix.com/BN/EMDORIG/GP38-2/2150.HTM 88" nose and anticlimber, fans now closely spaced right at the back with a smaller slatted radiator grille Cab differences are subtle (at least from the front, less so from the rear!) and are to do with the way the roof terminates to the front/rear wall - the -2 isn't smooth and in fact overhangs at the rear. The blower goes from being smooth to having a couple of panel lines in the -2 version... The other -2 spotting feature is a water sight glass in the long hood on the engineers side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurascale staff Accurascale Fran Posted June 21, 2011 Accurascale staff Share Posted June 21, 2011 Santa Fe didn't have very many GP38-2's either, they inherited a few from a line they took over. I have a P2K one which I bought very cheaply in Trainworld a few years back. Its a lovely runner but since found out its not the greatest when it comes to accuracy. It was something of an impulse purchase as I was only getting into the dark side at the time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 So - quick note on modelling modern prototypes where you're not quite sure of the provenance, and this goes for pretty much any '2nd gen' EMD - that the machine is now called a "GP38-3" or a "GP39V" or whatever by the railroad effectively means absolutely zilch to us as modellers - try and trace the back history to work out what it was built as, then compare the model of that with the real thing to see if it still looks like that! Something I should have mentioned in that last post is trucks - the 'factory' dash-2 truck was the blomberg M which has one brake cylinder on the left side and a damper on the right side, lots of loco's used trade-ins of older Blomberg Bs (two brake cylinders) from F's or 1st generation GPs though...and a common mod on these was to remove those outside brake shoes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well I checked the BNSF sitehttp://www.thedieselshop.us/BNSF.HTML According to them, mine, #2339 is still a GP38 one of a batch of 107 locomotives ex BN. Now I'm wondering why it is painted Blue/Yellow? Latest photos indicate the modern BNSF colours. Picture Archives say it is a GP38-2!!!!!!!!??????? No wonder it can be confusing..... best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 http://archive.trainpix.com/BNSF/EMDORIG/GP38/INDEX.HTM According to that ATSF2339 should now be BNSF2229 (it was ATSF3539 originally) One slightly niggling thing is that this build for Santa Fe got unusual step wells which don't match the model perfectly - I have ATSF3520 from one of the early runs (in 70s/early 80s guise) and my solution was to just ignore that little issue... Here's your one today - I think the 2009 shots are really wierd with half the loco in what looks like undercoat though! http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locopicture.aspx?id=15807 (PS - think yourself lucky this isn't UP, where they seemed to renumber things on a weekly basis!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Ooooooh, YES! - paint it like that with the red-oxide primer, and someone is SURE to tell you it is wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 It's got the right trucks, though!!!!!!!!! Henceforth I'm dragging out that "License" that Jack sent me (it's much easier......................). Thanks for your cerebral work, Martyn! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2011 ISTR the really important thing about the Dash2 line was the modular electrics. EMD reliability had suffered as the complexity of the locos - and hence their wiring - increased. Dash2 added a modular electrical cabinet just behind the fireman's door on the long hood, so that is another spotting feature along with those identified by Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbonnetuk Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 http://archive.trainpix.com/BNSF/EMDORIG/GP38/INDEX.HTM According to that ATSF2339 should now be BNSF2229 (it was ATSF3539 originally) One slightly niggling thing is that this build for Santa Fe got unusual step wells which don't match the model perfectly - I have ATSF3520 from one of the early runs (in 70s/early 80s guise) and my solution was to just ignore that little issue... Here's your one today - I think the 2009 shots are really wierd with half the loco in what looks like undercoat though! http://www.rrpicture...e.aspx?id=15807 (PS - think yourself lucky this isn't UP, where they seemed to renumber things on a weekly basis!) To add to Martyn 's gen on Santa Fe GP38's they also had extended range dynamic brakes meaning that the roof blister is longer that the stock Atlas one. The kitbash here is to cut up an Athearn SD40-2 mid production brake blister (available as a spare) and graft them on The 'switching steps' that previous mentioned are available as an etched detail from Railflyer And yes, this is a project that is in my loft to do one fine day....... Dan Spalding Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Ta Dan, I hadn't thought of Railflyer - they didn't exist when I did mine, and it's one of those things you just don't try as a scratchbuild as you know that it'll end up looking worse than just accepting the wrong one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbonnetuk Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ta Dan, I hadn't thought of Railflyer - they didn't exist when I did mine, and it's one of those things you just don't try as a scratchbuild as you know that it'll end up looking worse than just accepting the wrong one! I'm with you on the scratchbuilding thing so not looking forward to the dynamic brake hack when I get round to it! Dan Spalding Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Realised yesterday that whilst I can't show a representative of all the models out there, I can do some...so here goes - first up! Atlas GP38 - ATSF3520 in late 1970s/early 80s guise, in the mid 80s they were life-extended and got all the rooftop gubbins plus new numbers as per Pete's one. One of the nice things about the era is you get the funky Warbonnet paint but don't need to do all the rooftop work....result! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Sunglasses on....and this is the Trainman 'late' GP38-2, here in Illinois Terminal green. I've only just got the pair of these and have had no chance to do any detailing yet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Athearn's GP38-2 - when I did this Rock Island unit it was the only game in town, they did a partial retool to make a 'late' one as this one has (correctly) slatted rad grilles but (incorrectly) still has an 81" nose. They did do a more correct early one with the grille style rads as well. By this point Athearn were also being a bit more careful with what went in the blue boxes, so it also has Blomberg Bs from their F unit not Ms - again correctly! This is one of those models that I was pretty pleased with when I did it, but now looks rather dated....ho hum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Proto 2000 'late' GP38-2 - this should be the same as the Trainman one. I think these are quite nice in themselves but some dimensional issues will apparently start giving you issues if you wanted to start swapping in Cannon parts... I've had this a couple of years and really should get round to finishing the weathering, I did some but kinda lost interest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 And finally the Proto 2000 'early' GP38-2 - they didn't do this scheme, this is a repaint I did (prototypically sprayed over an ICG orange and white one!) and runs as part of my 'modern' CN fleet usually. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Martyn, Many thanks for digging out those photos. Very interesting! Both my cameras are bu55ered at present............. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 From a modeling point of view, the Atlas GP38 and the Atlas/Trainman GP38-2 share the same mechanism. Truck sideframes will differ, but the mechanism is identical...which meant for a while that a cheap way to pick up a great GP38 was to buy the 38-2 cheap (and they were) then buy an undec shell from Atlas. In GP38-2s there's the three options of Athearn, Atlas and Proto. The Proto is a mess as the hood is about 30 thou too short in height. Doesn't seem like a lot but it wrecked the proportions of the doors, dynamic brake blister and don't even try to fit a Cannon cab to it. The Atlas has issues with door heights being off by 6-8 scale inches but has the best mechanism. And though it's the oldest the Athearn is still the best dimensionally but of course takes the most work to get up to current standards, eg, Cannon cab, fans, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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