What is your favourite North American steam streamliner?

[Ozexpatriate]

This topic is intended as a harmless bit of fun suggested by Old Gringo:

 

My favourite U.S. steam streamliners are the C,M,St.P & P. Hiawathas (both the Atlantics and Hudsons) and The New York Central's "Art Deco" J3A's. But then there's the Santa Fe's Blue Goose - that was quite a pretty Hudson too. There's just so many to choose from and what about the Canadian Pacific's Royal Hudsons ? Perhaps, we should have another discussion in the U.S. Group with pictures !???

 

What's your favo(u)rite North American Streamliner?

 

Tell me what I have missed and I'll add it to the questions. I'm bound to have missed one or two, etc.

[Ozexpatriate]

Some links:

 

Here's a nice overview of US steam streamliners.

 

Milwaukee Road Class A

Milwaukee Road Class F7

NYC J3a Hudson - 20th Century Limited

NYC J3 - Empire State Express

NYC J1E Commodore Vanderbillt

ATSF 3460 Blue Goose

N&W Class J

SP GS-4 Daylight

PRR T1 Duplex (4-4-4-4)

PRR S1 Duplex (6-4-4-6)

PRR Q1 Duplex (4-6-4-4)

PRR K4 #3768 The Torpedo (4-6-2 Pacific) Broadway Limited (By Raymond Loewy)

PRR K4 partial shrouding (4-6-2 Pacific) Numbers: 1120, 2665, 3678 & 5338 (partial shrouding)

PRR K4 #1188 'Skyline' (4-6-2 Pacific)

B&O President Class 5301 - 5304 (Scroll down)

CPR Royal Hudson

NYNH&H Class I5 (This is very reminiscent of NSWGR No. 3801)

NC&StL #535

UP #2906

Southern #1380

Reading Crusader

C&O #490 etc (4-6-4)

C&NW 4000 (4-6-4)

[trisonic]

You missed out the PRR S1 6-4-4-6 and 127 feet of awfulness!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6-4-4-6

 

The only one I remotely liked was the PRR T1.............

 

The ugliest one had to be the Reading Crusader............

 

Best, Pete.

[dave1905]

Obviously Trisonic hasn't seen some of the UP's yellow and baby poop brown upside down tub streamliners. The blue and stainless Crusader has them beat by a mile.

[Ozexpatriate]

You missed out the PRR S1 6-4-4-6 and 127 feet of awfulness!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6-4-4-6

Now added. I should have checked what the original vote was for before modifying the options.

[Ozexpatriate]

The only one I remotely liked was the PRR T1.............

The BLI model in Brunswick green looks very nice.

[Allegheny1600]

My favourite: the NY,NH&H class I5 - sheer class!

Unfortunately I missed getting hold of a model in the final paint scheme, I hold out hope for a re-run!

Cheers,

John E.

[2ManySpams]

Good grief, this thread is an eye opener....and folk say that Bulleid's airsmoothed creations were ugly!

 

More shocking for me used to UK outline is the length and wheel arrangements used. 127 feet of 6-4-4-6!!! What were they thinking?

 

Was there a 'more money than sense' phase of US loco building?

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Streamliner fans,

 

For me it's a dead-heat between the Durbin Rocket and the Springfield Rocket ...

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

[Allegheny1600]

Aha!

I knew there were more US streamliners!

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam17.html - earlier streamliners.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam3.html - later streamliners.

 

My favourites of these would have to be the C&NW 4000 series 4-6-4's, rather smart I think!

I should like the C&O 490-495 series, but I just can't!

Cheers,

John E.

[Oldddudders]

My favourite: the NY,NH&H class I5 - sheer class!

I'm with John! Stunning locos on a fine route!

[Adrian Wintle]

Was there a 'more money than sense' phase of US loco building?

 

There was a bit of that, but there were also operational considerations, and a bit of experimentation. A loco for the midwest plains (Milwaukee Road, CB&Q) would need to have different characteristics than one intended for both climbing the Allegheny mountains and pounding across flats (PRR), or from one intended for climbing the Rockies (UP). Even the NYC and the PRR had different requirements for locos that were competing between the same destinations (NYC to Chicago) due to the difference in their routes. You do have to look at the locomotives in terms of the context of the line that built them.

 

BTW, the poll misses out the various streamline K4s locos of the PRR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_K4s

Also the PRR Q1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_Q1

 

Adrian

[Talltim]

I don't really like any of them. In fact I've just realised that I don't like Streamliners per se

[pointstaken]

Nah, a "J" on the front of the "Powhatan Arrow" would have all the rest beat hollow !

(Photo on Page 27 of the current MR special edition "Railroads of the 1950s")

 

Dennis

[trisonic]

I don't really like any of them. In fact I've just realised that I don't like Streamliners per se

I'm with you. I think it is because they all look like something that Hermann Goering would have given Hitler as a gift - either that or they look like "Plankton" from "Spongebob Squarepants"!!!

 

 

Best, Pete.

[jamie92208]

I've voted for the Royal Hudson but most of the bif CP power could have been included as they could be called semi streamlined such as the beautiful Selkirks.

 

Jamie

[Ozexpatriate]

Aha!

I knew there were more US streamliners!

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam17.html - earlier streamliners.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam3.html - later streamliners.

 

My favourites of these would have to be the C&NW 4000 series 4-6-4's, rather smart I think!

I should like the C&O 490-495 series, but I just can't!

Cheers,

John E.

John,

 

wow, great links!! Somehow in the back of my mind I knew I had forgotten those Chesapeake & Ohio bathtubs and should have also thought of the C&NW. (At one point I lived on the old C&NW mainline west out of Chicago and one random day was delighted to see a preserved 50s era streamlined passenger consist tailed with an observation car on the line.)

 

Would you like me to add anything in particular to the poll besides the C&NW 4000s?

[Ozexpatriate]

These monstrosities: Retrofitted streamlined GWR King and Retrofitted streamlined PRR K4 are birds of a feather to me.

 

Both of them are a lame attempt to keep up in the PR stakes with the "modern" appearance of streamlining, such as it was in the 1930s.

 

Though I have to say, (despite being a devotee of the GWR) the King still looks worse than even the worst US examples. The fact that the tender is emblazoned with the shirtbutton is icing on the cake.

[Ozexpatriate]

Tell me what I have missed and I'll add it to the questions. I'm bound to have missed one or two, etc.

Clearly I missed a lot - thanks for all your suggestions. We hit the 20 question limit in the poll and I never got to add the modified PRR K4s. I could add a second question, but I think we have a decently representative list at this point It is amazing just how many of these things there actually were.

[Ozexpatriate]

I think it is because they all look like something that Hermann Goering would have given Hitler as a gift

Like the Borsig DRB Class 05 perhaps?

[coachmann]

Undoubtedly the Pennsy Shark 4-4-4-4. AND it shared my birth in 1942! Can't be bad then.....

[PaulRhB]

The Pennsy giants were an interesting attempt to actually move forward design of high speed steam. They figured that by splitting the main drivers they could spread the weight of the cylinders and reduce the reciprocating weight, and consequently track wear, by having smaller siderods.

It didn't work out as well as they hoped but at least they tried something different

[The Stationmaster]

Nah, a "J" on the front of the "Powhatan Arrow" would have all the rest beat hollow !

(Photo on Page 27 of the current MR special edition "Railroads of the 1950s")

 

Dennis

 

Quite agree although some of their final jobs were something of a comedown but still heading 'The Pocahontas' well into the second half of the 1950s

[steve1]

There is only one - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NYC_Hudson

 

Must have Scullion drivers though.

 

steve

[Ozexpatriate]

... a "J" on the front of the "Powhatan Arrow" would have all the rest beat hollow !

 

Quite agree although some of their final jobs were something of a comedown but still heading 'The Pocahontas' well into the second half of the 1950s

 

The N&W J is a pretty and elegant machine and the 4-8-4 configuration was really impressive for passenger express locomotives. MTH offered a "Powhattan Arrow" set in a recent H0 catalogue. It is not yet available and they are accepting reservations. Though I haven't really looked closely at their coaches yet, with the Milwaukee Road EP-1 Bipolar I'm starting to become a fan of MTH.

 

On a related topic, I went with BLI/Paragon for the SP Daylight and am a bit disappointed. So far they have only released the observation car. Like their California Zephyr stock, it is excellent, but I expected them to offer the GS-4 in two time frames to be compatible with both the earlier and later version of the coaches they offer. They have only offered the GS-4 in the later scheme with "SOUTHERN PACIFIC" rather than "SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES" on the tender.

 

The local SP experts around here (where #4449 lives) do say the BLI/Paragon GS-4 is more accurate than the earlier released MTH GS-4.