Ben04uk Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Were there ever any 5-plank open wagons with the company initials 'N E' on the sides during the Big Four period like there were for similar GWR, SR, and LMS wagons are highlighted on these wagons: http://www.ehattons.com/Trade/StockDetail.aspx?SID=23103 http://www.ehattons.com/Trade/StockDetail.aspx?SID=25525 http://www.ehattons.com/Trade/StockDetail.aspx?SID=25522 I know the LNER didn't have planked open wagons and had steel wagons instead such as this one: http://www.ehattons.com/Trade/StockDetail.aspx?SID=32858 Would the LNER 13 Ton High Sided Steel Open Wagon ever have had 'N E' on the side or were there any other LNER open wagons which would have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The LNER used 6-plank merchandise wagons and these featured NE on them in the early period before small numbering but I dont have a personal copy of the Tatlow LNER wagons book to check pages and diagrams. see http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood for pictures. Someone else will have to check whether the introduction of the steel wagons was just before or after the decision to stop using large letters. Im surprised Dapol hasn't stuck NE on one of those generic wagons though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I know the LNER didn't have planked open wagons and had steel wagons instead Er not really. The LNER built 20000 6 plank opens from 1923 - 1945 and then switched to the steel type so the steel ones would have only been seen in smaller numbers towards the end of the LNER's existence (They built 3500 in the last 3 years of the company's existence). The steel open, although of LNER design, is really a BR period wagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bernard Lamb Posted May 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2011 Ex GER 5 plank open wagons would have appeared with the large NE lettering after 1923 and up to some time after 1937. Most of the LNER constituent companies favoured a six plank design. The Hull and Barnsley did have some five plank wagons but these I believe were of an odd, longer, length. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben04uk Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 I did think that the use of steel for open merchandise wagons in the 1930s sounded a bit odd. To get the proportion of the mix of GWR, LMS, SR, and LNER open wagons right then (I understand that open wagons accounted for approximately 75% of all wagons during this period), for 4mm gauge there is the old GWR and LMS 5-plank Airfix/Dapol model with the company initials on the side and Hornby do the SR 5-plank open wagon with the large logo lettering. However, to also include the LNER style open wagons, are there any RTR models available for such a 6-plank wagon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
49395 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hi, Cambrian Models make a kit for an LNER 6 plank wagon, C81 (see here) http://cambrianmodels.co.uk/lnerwagons.html#lne6pl It does make quite a nice model and I think the instructions said its a design based on a very late Great Northern wagon. Also Parkside Dundas sell an LNER 5 plank wagon kit (PC25 part way down this page) http://www.parksidedundas.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_LONDON___NORTH_EASTERN_RAILWAY.html Although I think that design may have been introduced after the livery changed to small lettering. I'm not sure of any RTR wagons with NE in big letters, at least available recently. (Usual disclaimer, happy customer no connection to manufacturers etc....) Hope this helps Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 To get the proportion of the mix of ***, LMS, SR, and LNER open wagons right then (I understand that open wagons accounted for approximately 75% of all wagons during this period), for 4mm gauge there is the old *** and LMS 5-plank Airfix/Dapol model with the company initials on the side and Hornby do the SR 5-plank open wagon with the large logo lettering. However, to also include the LNER style open wagons, are there any RTR models available for such a 6-plank wagon? You are correct that 75% of freight stock (excluding mineral traffic) comprised open wagons. A couple of other statistics - most open wagons were common user and you may want to work with the following percentages: LMS 44%; LNER 33%; certain other railway 17%; SR 6%. Then wagons lasted for an average of 20 years so if you are modelling the 1930s you can run anything built after 1900. Don't forget your RCH specifications, with a move from 9' wheelbase to 10' wheelbase in the early 1930s. Then your next modelling issue would be the change from large to small initials in the mid 1930s. The LMS invested in 5 plank wagons, with over 60,000 to D1666 & D1667. The LNER built over 20,000 of their 6 plank wagons, whilst the SR went for an 8 plank design, having a 5 plank drop flap and 3 plank cupboard doors. The only 5 plank SR wagons in 1930 would be ex LSWR and SECR - most LBSC wagons emigrated to Vectis or were taken into engineering stock (a matter of non standard wheelsets). Don't be afraid to build wagon kits. I've spent a couple of days building whitemetal kits purchased at ExpoEM: ABS kits go together easily. But there are also numerous plastic kit manufacturers, I can recommend Cambrian, Coopercraft, Parkside, Chivers and there are others. Bill Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 This is the Cambrian LNER 6 planker (actually 66653 is a 3H kit): They also do a range of older private owner wagons (pre the 1923 RCH standards) which can make an interesting variety in your trains: They take a bit more care in building than Parkside kits, but you can get some nice results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I don't think we've ever had a RTR merchandise wagon with wooden solebars (i've probably missed something obvious and note the Bachmann 5-plank wooden solebar is 16'6 long..). Most of the Airfix/Dapol LMS wagon type with the bottom plank sticking out were built after the change to small letters. The earlier wagons had flat sides and many more of the wooden solebar 1666 were built than the steel solebar 1667. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I don't think we've ever had a RTR merchandise wagon with wooden solebars I think you're right. Though we have had a Vanwide with them . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenL Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I've got a Hornby R6441 LNER 5 plank wagon (which is based on the old Airfix 5 plank) and wondered if there's a prototype for it. I thought it might be one of the 5 plank wagons the SR built for the LNER but these were 12/13 tons and this model is branded 10 tons. Maybe it's supposed to represent an earlier LNER 6 plank wagon? It's running number is 629814 if that helps. Any pointers will be greatly appreciated! If it turns out to not resemble anything prototypical, I will repaint it into something that does. Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 This is the one the SR built (LNER D 178?) A wagon numbered 6xxxxxx would be ex-GER, so I suspect your wagon is nothing like any prototype. Wasn't the Airfix one based on the LMS 5 plank? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The LNER early on built a 9' wooden underframe five plank design, in addition to what was received from the pre-group wagon stock. These carried the large NE lettering. Reference to the invaluable LNER wagon volumes by Peter Tatlow is advised. The ex-Airfix five plank general merchandise open, now in the Hornby range, was a well chosen subject. All the Big four built, or had built for them, wagons of very similar appearance. The LNER's though came into service after the introduction of small lettering. That's the sole OO RTR typical wooden bodied general merchandise open though, and scarcely representative of the real situation. Kits, and alterations to these and/or scratchbuilding, are the way forward to a proper selection of the significant variety in traffic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenL Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks Jonathan and 34c. Jonathan, thanks for the pointer that the running number suggests an ex-GER wagon - it is indeed hard to imagine that the model could pass as one of those. But I think it could pass for a D178 with renumbering - it does at least have the small lettering. Were they all unfitted like yours or were some fitted in LNER times? I ask as Dapol once did a version of the Airfix 5 plank in NE oxide and wonder if this was supposed to be a fitted D178. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted October 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2015 I think the Airfix wagon is the LMS ww2 type, diagrams 2072 (500 built in 1942/30) and 2094 (3775 built 1943-6). The giveaway is the absence of the curb rail, exposing the floor plank ends. Otherwise it's basically the same as D1892 but with thinner planks. I doubt if the sides are scale thickness anyway. The model comes with double sided Morton brakes whereas unfitted wagons had single sided Morton. LMS built fitted wagons to D1892 had 8 shoe clasp brakes. BR conversions of unfitted wagons to AVB were double sided Morton. The LNER introduced a 5-plank 12ton wagon in 1938, too late for the large NE. A sample running number is 214021. The SR built wagons, 400 to SR diagram 1375, also lacked curb rails, and the Airfix type will pass for those. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenL Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks Pete, that's very useful info. Do you have any idea if the Airfix model looks anything like the LNER 5 plank introduced in 1938? The Hornby version I have has the small lettering so might pass for one of those, though it sounds like the SR-builds are the best match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted October 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2015 I forgot to say that the LNER 1938 type was fitted, with LNER 8 shoe clasp brakes, so the Hornby one won't suit. It's fairly ok for the SR built type; the banger plates on the door are different, they are higher on the SR wagon than the LMS, but it's not very obvious. You could fit the Hornby body to a Bachmann fitted LNER underframe. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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