Adam's EM Workbench: Farewell for now

[Colin parks]

Hi Adam,

 

Avery nice bit of wagon building as ever.  The locating holes in the floor really do make it look authentic.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Adam]

Hi Colin

Thanks, with any luck, a good dose of weathering on the inside will complete the job. In the meantime, I have to work out what to use to letter the thing. Numbers and basic lettering are ok and in stock, but the more detailed return brandings and dimensions... Still, it's primed now and the bogies are fully painted. Looks good.

Adam

Edited August 4, 2014 by Adam

[Adam]

A quick couple of views of the wagon under primer. I've since had a first pass at the interior with a mix of Humbrol metalcote gunmetal and matt chocolate, thinned and applied with a brush. It will need another go, but the effect is worth it; it highlights all those holes very nicely.

 

 

 

Adam

[Fat Controller]

That's come out very nicely. I remember these wagons being used to bring coil to what was originally the Steel Company of Wales' Trostre Works; the oldest photo of them that I've seen in traffic was in 1958, being hauled by an ex-GWR 2-8-0t at Landore. Did they ever work anywhere apart from to Trostre and Velindre, I wonder?

[Adam]

Thanks Brian, there's still time for it to go horribly wrong! Seriously, I'm quite pleased with it, it's a nice kit, if a bit of a fiddle in places (all those overlays soak up a lot of heat - not a problem, but something to be aware of). Where they worked to is an interesting question. When new, they were branded to work to Abbey Works Port Talbot (that's the bit of the lettering proving particularly difficult to get hold of): http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/h2c58454f#h294aa921

 

Obviously, that's a fair way east of Llanelli! I'm a little vague on the nature of the traffic between works; if there was a connection, what was it? In the meantime, on this foul day, here's a picture of an earlier project, now completed. My interpretation of the Southern's pent-roofed van:

 

 

Adam

 

 

[jjnewitt]

I remember these wagons being used to bring coil to what was originally the Steel Company of Wales' Trostre Works; the oldest photo of them that I've seen in traffic was in 1958, being hauled by an ex-GWR 2-8-0t at Landore. Did they ever work anywhere apart from to Trostre and Velindre, I wonder?

Trevon Mann's new book states that they worked to Ebbw Vale as well and also to Shotton briefly in the early eighties. Paul Bartlett's site has a photo of one at Severn Tunnel Junction in the late seventies. No idea where it was working to/from though.

 

I'm a little vague on the nature of the traffic between works; if there was a connection, what was it? In the meantime, on this foul day, here's a picture of an earlier project, now completed. My interpretation of the Southern's pent-roofed van:

 

They conveyed steel for tinplate. Hence going to Velindre and Tostre.

 

Justin 

[Adam]

Thanks for that Justin; my impression that many of these 'return to' brandings were honoured more in the breach than the observance; the only 'traffic' picture (that I've seen) of the Coil H I built earlier was taken at Severn Tunnel Junction, for example and that was branded to work to Trostre and Velindre when new. I imagine the question was; 'We need coil wagons, what've we got?' and 'Where are these supposed to go?' was wholly secondary. The coil fleet was a right old hotchpotch, after all, and my collection reflects this small though it is. I have enjoyed the process (even the drilling) and I'm looking forward to whatever's next. All good fun.

 

Adam

Edited December 23, 2013 by Adam

[jjnewitt]

I get the impression from photographs that initially coil wagons did generally work specific routes and the return to brandings were honoured. Where they worked to may be a different matter and of course would have changed as traffic patterns changed. The only two photos I've seen of these 42T Strip Coils in traffic in the 50s/60s show loaded wagons heading west on the South Wales main line. One appeared in post #18 of this thread on this forum and the other appears in The Red Dragon and Other Friends which shows a rake behind a 7200 on the Swansea district line. Both of these suggest that their use in traffic to the tinplate works at Velindre and Tostre is correct for the period. The bogie Coil Es were initially branded "To work between S.C.O.W. Abbey works and Orb Works Newport Mon" which makes electrical steel. Perhaps this traffic is why the cradles were of a different size to the very similar Boigie Coil Gs? 

 

I must get around to painting my Strip Coil. It's still in primer.

 

Justin

 

Edited as I can't get my compass points the right way around! 

Edited December 23, 2013 by jjnewitt

[Adam]

That would make sense and, of I recall, the differences in the cradle dimensions was really quite small. It's interesting that you point to Mike's (Stationmaster's) thread. Just above that shot, in the background of another at Port Talbot on the same post, showing D1051, appears to be at least two bogie slab coils carrying coil. I don't recall ever seeing another picture of those loaded with anything though clearly that was what they were designed for.

 

Very curious wagons in both appearance and use.

 

Adam

Edited December 23, 2013 by Adam

[Fat Controller]

I get the impression from photographs that initially coil wagons did generally work specific routes and the return to brandings were honoured. Where they worked to may be a different matter and of course would have changed as traffic patterns changed. The only two photos I've seen of these 42T Strip Coils in traffic in the 50s/60s show loaded wagons heading east on the South Wales main line. One appeared in post #18 of this thread on this forum and the other appears in The Red Dragon and Other Friends which shows a rake behind a 7200 on the Swansea district line. Both of these suggest that their use in traffic to the tinplate works at Velindre and Tostre is correct for the period. The bogie Coil Es were initially branded "To work between S.C.O.W. Abbey works and Orb Works Newport Mon" which makes electrical steel. Perhaps this traffic is why the cradles were of a different size to the very similar Boigie Coil Gs? 

 

I must get around to painting my Strip Coil. It's still in primer.

 

Justin

That photo of them at Landore has a somewhat misleading caption, describing them as an 'engineer's train'- quite unusual to see a through freight on this line, due to the gradients towards Cockett Tunnel in both directions. The train would have had to be sent into Llandeilo Junction yard, as there's no direct connection from Trostre sidings into the Gowerton line; the access is via the original Llanelly Dock and Railway route, thence the District Line.

The coil in these wagons would have been Hot Reduced Coil, which would be descaled, 'pickled' and re-rolled before final tinning, galvanising or 'colour coating'. I believe there were originally three trains a day to Trostre; these days, there's only one, but it carries the same quantity as the three original trains..

The Slab Coils were designed to load slab in one direction, then return with coil; they were intended to work between Port Talbot and Llanwern, I believe, as the former sometimes produced more slab than they could roll. These days, of course, Llanwern only rolls slab, brought in from Port Talbot or elsewhere.

[jjnewitt]

That photo of them at Landore has a somewhat misleading caption, describing them as an 'engineer's train'- quite unusual to see a through freight on this line, due to the gradients towards Cockett Tunnel in both directions. The train would have had to be sent into Llandeilo Junction yard, as there's no direct connection from Trostre sidings into the Gowerton line; the access is via the original Llanelly Dock and Railway route, thence the District Line.

Not sure we're taking about the same photo. The one I was refering to is on page 277 in The Red Dragon... and was taken at Ponlliw on the Swansea district line.

 

That would make sense and, of I recall, the differences in the cradle dimensions was really quite small. It's interesting that you point to Mike's (Stationmaster's) thread. Just above that shot, in the background of another at Port Talbot on the same post, showing D1051, appears to be at least two bogie slab coils carrying coil. I don't recall ever seeing another picture of those loaded with anything though clearly that was what they were designed for.

Well spotted. I missed that! I'm sure I've seen another picture of the Slab Coils loaded but I can't find it at the moment. The picture was of a loco at Canton and in the background was a rake of Slab Coils on the main line. I'm sure they were loaded. If I find it I'll let you know.

 

Whilst looking for it I did find a couple of photos of our Strip and Slab Coil wagons working together:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/8440246883/in/set-72157626215122619

http://www.flickr.com/photos/briantrailandmore/6766401849/in/set-72157635910263844

 

Those Slab Coils are great. Maybe one day if I'm feeling really brave!

 

Justin

[Fat Controller]

Not sure we're taking about the same photo. The one I was refering to is on page 277 in The Red Dragon... and was taken at Ponlliw on the Swansea district line.

 

 

Justin

It's on P116; I mis-remembered the loco, though- it's a Grange.

[jjnewitt]

It's on P116; I mis-remembered the loco, though- it's a Grange.

Ah I see. I hadn't noticed they were Strip Coils! Yes not much through freight on that line. If they'd tried to send the full wagons that way it would have been a struggle and would have needed something with a bit more power than a Grange and probably a banker. I wonder if the Swansea district line was closed for engineering works on the day that was taken?

 

Justin 

[Fat Controller]

Ah I see. I hadn't noticed they were Strip Coils! Yes not much through freight on that line. If they'd tried to send the full wagons that way it would have been a struggle and would have needed something with a bit more power than a Grange and probably a banker. I wonder if the Swansea district line was closed for engineering works on the day that was taken?

 

Justin 

Probably replacing falling-down brickwork in the tunnels..

[Colin parks]

Thanks Brian, there's still time for it to go horribly wrong! Seriously, I'm quite pleased with it, it's a nice kit, if a bit of a fiddle in places (all those overlays soak up a lot of heat - not a problem, but something to be aware of). Where they worked to is an interesting question. When new, they were branded to work to Abbey Works Port Talbot (that's the bit of the lettering proving particularly difficult to get hold of): http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/h2c58454f#h294aa921

 

Obviously, that's a fair way east of Llanelli! I'm a little vague on the nature of the traffic between works; if there was a connection, what was it? In the meantime, on this foul day, here's a picture of an earlier project, now completed. My interpretation of the Southern's pent-roofed van:

 

Pent11.gif

 

Adam

A super finish on the wagon Adam!  The chalk marks are very well-executed.  Are they transfers?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Adam]

Thank you Colin, I'm pleased with that one too even if it does mean I should swear off anything other than the most mundane of van prototypes for the next twenty years. Not transfers, though I know they can be had, but china-graph pencil; much cheaper, easier to apply and moreover, you can choose the destinations you want!

 

Adam

[Adam]

 

Those Slab Coils are great. Maybe one day if I'm feeling really brave!

 

Justin

 

I doubt that I'll ever be brave enough to consider doing one from scratch though, given a proper jig it should be doable, but the amount of milled angle and section you would need hardly bears thinking about; getting it wrong would be expensive. All that assumes finding sufficient information to create a decent drawing of course. Still, on the basis of the Strip Coil, I'm looking forward to the Coil V when you get around to it, and the Shochood B, even if the latter runs the risk of putting my humble effort firmly in the shade.

 

Adam

Edited December 23, 2013 by Adam

[jjnewitt]

I doubt that I'll ever be brave enough to consider doing one from scratch though, given a proper jig it should be doable, but the amount of milled angle and section you would need hardly bears thinking about; getting it wrong would be expensive. All that assumes finding sufficient information to create a decent drawing of course. Still, on the basis of the Strip Coil, I'm looking forward to the Coil V when you get around to it, and the Shochood B, even if the latter runs the risk of putting my humble effort firmly in the shade.

 

Adam

There's the drawing in BR wagons Vol.1 for the Slab Coil which would provide a start. They've been done in 2mm for Ynysarwed Sidings. Don't fancy doing them in 2mm myself! I must get around to putting together the test etch for the Shochood B. It looks nice on the fret. I will have to see how well it builds!

 

Jutsin

[hmrspaul]

There's the drawing in BR wagons Vol.1 for the Slab Coil which would provide a start. They've been done in 2mm for Ynysarwed Sidings. Don't fancy doing them in 2mm myself! I must get around to putting together the test etch for the Shochood B. It looks nice on the fret. I will have to see how well it builds!

 

Jutsin

and plenty of detail photos in http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoilz  A devil of a wagon to measure, it would be nice to see a model made from the drawing. Personally I never saw one loaded.

 

As to the lovely model of the Strip coil, I was surprised that you had to do all of that drilling, I thought an advantage of etch kits is that such work should already have been done. As to where they worked, don't overlook they were maintained at Swindon http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/e3965cea5

 

As mentioned they worked to North Wales, I didn't see any loaded, as Trev did, but here is another at Chester wagon works http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/e3e86bc2f

 

Paul

[Southernman46]

Also a number were scrapped at Queenborough in Kent during the early 80's - going from S. Wales via Acton & Hoo Junction.

[jjnewitt]

and plenty of detail photos in http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoilz  A devil of a wagon to measure, it would be nice to see a model made from the drawing. Personally I never saw one loaded.

 

As to the lovely model of the Strip coil, I was surprised that you had to do all of that drilling, I thought an advantage of etch kits is that such work should already have been done. As to where they worked, don't overlook they were maintained at Swindon http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/e3965cea5

 

As mentioned they worked to North Wales, I didn't see any loaded, as Trev did, but here is another at Chester wagon works http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/e3e86bc2f

 

Paul

The strips that are etched do already have the holes in them. Adam has drilled out the solid piece of plastic used he's used to represent the section beneath the strip. There are other ways of doing it and it's not the way I envisaged but it looks good.

 

I found the picture I refered to earlier of the loaded Slab Coils. They aren't particularly clear but can just about be seen between D6904 and the brake van. I have a print of this photo and they come up clearer in that. 

 

Justin

[Adam]

Thank you Paul, as ever, your photos are an invaluable reference and I'm very grateful. I had, I am ashamed to admit, forgotten about the slab coil drawing; I must take another look; Justin, that is one heck of a spot to see those loaded wagons on the background.

 

The reason for the drilling was a departure from replicating the prototype as Justin says. Had I not had exactly the right sizes of Evergreen section in stock I would probably have done as Justin suggests in the instructions (pp. 23-5).On the real thing, the internal restraint strips seem to have been made from a drilled strip welded to two bits of angle (or perhaps U channel welded upside down to the floor and then drilled). Now it would be quite possible to replicate this exactly in model form; you could half etch a false floor with location guides and acquire several feet of milled L section and do a very fiddly soldering job before putting the floor in but this would be quite expensive and modelling the little triangular reinforcements would be even more irritating than it was in plastic.

 

 

 

Adam

Edited December 23, 2013 by Adam

[The Stationmaster]

That photo of them at Landore has a somewhat misleading caption, describing them as an 'engineer's train'- quite unusual to see a through freight on this line, due to the gradients towards Cockett Tunnel in both directions. The train would have had to be sent into Llandeilo Junction yard, as there's no direct connection from Trostre sidings into the Gowerton line; the access is via the original Llanelly Dock and Railway route, thence the District Line.

The coil in these wagons would have been Hot Reduced Coil, which would be descaled, 'pickled' and re-rolled before final tinning, galvanising or 'colour coating'. I believe there were originally three trains a day to Trostre; these days, there's only one, but it carries the same quantity as the three original trains..

The Slab Coils were designed to load slab in one direction, then return with coil; they were intended to work between Port Talbot and Llanwern, I believe, as the former sometimes produced more slab than they could roll. These days, of course, Llanwern only rolls slab, brought in from Port Talbot or elsewhere.

 

Agree Brian - the Trostre and Velindre coil trains from Port Talbot were all booked via the District Line.  The coil was loaded eye-to-sky in Strip Coil wagons formed in block trains and the usual practice was for a loaded outward working to return with a train of empties.  It could be quite an interesting ride on a frosty day as often the coil was still at cherry red heat level when loaded and on decent run it was invariably still warm on arrival at the tinplate plants.

 

Not sure if this is the pic being talked about but it shows D1592 passing Pontlliw on the District Line with a train which includes some Slab Coils - when I was at Margam in 1972 all the trains to Trostre & Velindre were formed exclusively with Strip Coils as far as I can recall.  If they were diverted via Cockett the loads had to be substantially reduced.

 

Edit to add link, oops

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kerryp28/7882249636/

Edited December 23, 2013 by The Stationmaster

[Adam]

Barring a bit of paint on underframes and several coats of Klear on the exterior in preparation for transfers both the Strip Coil and Minfit have seen little demonstrable progress of late. What has, however, is an industrial locomotive project, a post-war 200hp Sentinel steamer. Current progress on its own thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67087-a-post-war-sentinel-in-em/?p=1281994

 

Here's a taster:

 

 

Now fully motorised, and following a successful bench test, it needs some pick-ups...

 

Happy new year.

 

Adam

Edited January 11, 2014 by Adam

[Adam]

The weather today is absolutely hideous, but the light is just about good enough to take a work-in-progress shot of my Rumney/Parkside Minfit which is looking really rather tidy.

 

 

 

Painting follows my usual approach for fitted wagons. The livery colour is Halfords red oxide primer, glossed with five or six coats of Johnson's Klear in preparation for transfers. The underframe has been hand painted with Humbrol matt chocolate (#86). The lettering is by Railtec who do a nice set of transfers for 16 tonners of various sorts (item ref: 4mm - 6116). I haven't used these before and I have to say that they are extremely good though the range of numbers provided for fitted minerals could be slightly greater to reflect the higher numbered batches. Unlike - for example - the HMRS sheets and some of Modelmasters, the designer has actually looked at how wagons were lettered and copied that. The end door stripe was taken from an ancient SMS waterslide sheet and all sealed with another coat of Klear prior to a waft of Dullcote.

 

The Strip Coil has stalled at the livery/underframe coat stage for lack of transfers. I can probably get the Strip Coil branding from the HMRS sheet and with it some of the general lettering, but the return to brandings do not seem to be available from anywhere at the moment and will have to wait. It could be at this stage for some time yet. The Sentinel, meanwhile, is now self-propelled: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67087-a-post-war-200hp-steam-sentinel-in-em/?p=1284896

 

Adam

Edited January 6, 2014 by Adam