16t minerals

[Mol_PMB]

Not sure if we've had this one before somewhere upthread, but it certainly jumped out at me on Flickr when I stumbled across it. From John Turner:

 

[Hal Nail]

I'm sure this has been covered before but for diagram 108, and specifically the retro fitted ones, is there a convention on orientation of the morton clutch side compared to the end door?

 

I think if the direct crank and brake cylinder are nearest to you, the door is typically at the right hand end but ive seen examples of both so it may just have been random?

 

What I've never seen is the cylinder on the morton clutch side as per Dapols 7mm example as this wouldn't work! I'm in the process of swapping it over hence checking!   

[caradis]

Good evening all,

 

Just wondering if there are any known pictures of a riveted end door on a wagon? i've had a look through the forum, but quite a lot of broken links. 

 

Thanks

Edited June 12 by caradis

[andytrains]

Caradis.

Try https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mineralrivet

 

Andy.

[hmrspaul]

31 minutes ago, andytrains said:

Caradis.

Try https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mineralrivet

 

Andy.

Thanks but I looked hard at those yesterday and I don't think that helps. But, I was sure I did have a suitable photo so I dug deep into my ageing memory and thought LMS and here it is https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/e2bba568e

 

Paul

[caradis]

3 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Thanks but I looked hard at those yesterday and I don't think that helps. But, I was sure I did have a suitable photo so I dug deep into my ageing memory and thought LMS and here it is https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/e2bba568e

 

Paul

Ideal, Thanks. 

Your site is usually my first port of call for references, but i hadn't checked the LMS section this time. 

Thanks again. 

[Mark C]

6 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Thanks but I looked hard at those yesterday and I don't think that helps. But, I was sure I did have a suitable photo so I dug deep into my ageing memory and thought LMS and here it is https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/e2bba568e

 

Paul

Like so many other locations, Hitchin was a great place for rolling stock (the engineers' yard especially) - now, sadly, a vegetation-rich shadow of its' former self...

 

Mark

 

[sandwich station]

9 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Thanks but I looked hard at those yesterday and I don't think that helps. But, I was sure I did have a suitable photo so I dug deep into my ageing memory and thought LMS and here it is https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/e2bba568e

 

Paul

 

I didn't know the LMS did 16T minerals. :) 

[Poor Old Bruce]

On 08/06/2024 at 17:42, Hal Nail said:

I'm sure this has been covered before but for diagram 108, and specifically the retro fitted ones, is there a convention on orientation of the morton clutch side compared to the end door?

 

I think if the direct crank and brake cylinder are nearest to you, the door is typically at the right hand end but ive seen examples of both so it may just have been random?

 

What I've never seen is the cylinder on the morton clutch side as per Dapols 7mm example as this wouldn't work! I'm in the process of swapping it over hence checking!   

 

There was a convention when the wagons were built but I would have to dig deep somewhere to find it at the moment. It all went random when the re-bodying took place so check on pre re-bodying stuff.

[Hal Nail]

37 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

There was a convention when the wagons were built but I would have to dig deep somewhere to find it at the moment. It all went random when the re-bodying took place so check on pre re-bodying stuff.

thanks yes I think we've confirmed the orientation as built and rebodying was well after my period (1957/8 and a couple of mid 60s for diesels).

 

For the morton fitted conversions I noticed Paul's website suggests 5000 were rebuilt between 1966 - 68.

 

Does that mean prior to that the only fitted examples were the relatively small number built with 8 shoe clasp brakes?

[Bernard Lamb]

8 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

I didn't know the LMS did 16T minerals. :) 

Starting with a prototype in 1945 616000  D 2106 Lot 1412.

Then D 2108 2,559 built 1946-1947 616001-618599.

Finally in BR days D2134  3.500 M618600-622099.

According to R.J. Essery

That would mean unfitted wagons in bauxite for some time after BR came into being.

Bernard

[Flying Pig]

8 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

I didn't know the LMS did 16T minerals. :) 

 

A careful search of this thread will probably find chapter and verse, but see for example the post below.  

 

 

[hmrspaul]

3 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

 

That would mean unfitted wagons in bauxite for some time after BR came into being.

Bernard

Many more than that, the MoT ones which became the earlier B series minerals were in bauxite or similar. 

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

15 hours ago, Mark C said:

Like so many other locations, Hitchin was a great place for rolling stock (the engineers' yard especially) - now, sadly, a vegetation-rich shadow of its' former self...

 

Mark

 

All a housing estate now. There was a very low embankment that divided the ECML from the yard and the break to permit the rail access which is approximately central to the site can still be seen. 

 

Very friendly, possilby because my wife was always with me when we visited and sometimes in a skimpy vest top. 

 

Paul

[Mark C]

5 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

All a housing estate now. There was a very low embankment that divided the ECML from the yard and the break to permit the rail access which is approximately central to the site can still be seen. 

 

Very friendly, possilby because my wife was always with me when we visited and sometimes in a skimpy vest top. 

 

Paul

...I used to spend long summer Sunday afternoons on Benslow Bridge/Lane in my teens in the blue heyday of the mid-70s...

 

Mark

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Mark C said:

...I used to spend long summer Sunday afternoons on Benslow Bridge/Lane in my teens in the blue heyday of the mid-70s...

 

Mark

 

 

Off topic, but a couple of a slightly more recent views ... 

And of course the new Down Slow to Cambridge Branch flyover gives us additional vantage points.

 

 

[westerner]

Interesting mineral trains😉

[south_tyne]

Possibly a minefield of a question, but we're 16t minerals in widespread use by the NCB? And if so, was it concentrated on certain pits and/or collieries, and was it only when they were decommissioned by BR and therefore available secondhand?

 

I see Bachmann, Accuruscale and Farish have all done various runs (or will) of NCB liveried 16 tonners, but I've rarely seen photos of them. 

 

I appreciate this may be an unanswerable question, so please just tell me if it is! 

 

PS - like these: https://railsofsheffield.com/products/16t-mineral-wagon-ex-br-ncb 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15 by south_tyne
Added the PS...

[Fat Controller]

12 minutes ago, south_tyne said:

Possibly a minefield of a question, but we're 16t minerals in widespread use by the NCB? And if so, was it concentrated on certain pits and/or collieries, and was it only when they were decommissioned by BR and therefore available secondhand?

 

I see Bachmann, Accuruscale and Farish have all done various runs (or will) of NCB liveried 16 tonners, but I've rarely seen photos of them. 

 

I appreciate this may be an unanswerable question, so please just tell me if it is! 

 

PS - like these: https://railsofsheffield.com/products/16t-mineral-wagon-ex-br-ncb 

 

 

 

 

Have a look through these:- https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/industrialinternalwagons 

[Mol_PMB]

From John Turner on Flickr, a nice variety here:

 

 

 

John has plenty more like this if you follow the links and look at his other photos.

[The Johnster]

On 16/06/2024 at 10:51, Bernard Lamb said:

Starting with a prototype in 1945 616000  D 2106 Lot 1412.

Then D 2108 2,559 built 1946-1947 616001-618599.

Finally in BR days D2134  3.500 M618600-622099.

According to R.J. Essery

That would mean unfitted wagons in bauxite for some time after BR came into being.

Bernard

Depending on the build date the BR-built wagons would have appeared in grey, post-May 31st 1948.  As well as the LMS & ‘tranition livery’ BR builds, the Ministry of Supply steel minerals were also in a bauxiite livery until their first overhaul after BR absorbed them. 

[south_tyne]

49 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Have a look through these:- https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/industrialinternalwagons 

 

Thanks very much, that's fantastic 👍🏽

 

39 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

From John Turner on Flickr, a nice variety here:

 

 

 

John has plenty more like this if you follow the links and look at his other photos.

 

They're great! Exactly the kind of thing I'm after. Thank you very much, I really appreciate it 🙂

[south_tyne]

One for the far more learned fellows than me.... When was the 'COAL' boxed label introduced on 16 tonners? From perusing Paul Bartlett's website, it would seem to be mid-60s? 

[Hal Nail]

18 minutes ago, south_tyne said:

One for the far more learned fellows than me.... When was the 'COAL' boxed label introduced on 16 tonners? From perusing Paul Bartlett's website, it would seem to be mid-60s? 

I think boxing generally was from 1964.

ive been trying to work out what labelling the retro fits (1966 onwards) would have caried from conversion and i think it is most likely the boxed COAL 16 VB 

[south_tyne]

24 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

I think boxing generally was from 1964.

ive been trying to work out what labelling the retro fits (1966 onwards) would have caried from conversion and i think it is most likely the boxed COAL 16 VB 

 

Thanks very much, that chimes with my observations.