The Derby Line, Gladiator LNER O4/3

[dibateg]

Jeff P, I think I ordered the horn blocks separately- it was some time ago...

[dibateg]

The boiler and firebox wrappers fit perfectly, that is great design work. Here is the firebox. Many other kits I've had to fettle the boiler and firebox to fit properly. Spot the deliberate mistake - yeah  - I used the washout covers behind the mudholes! Duh! Hey - we all make mistakes, they can be fixed. So they all had to be removed and cleaned up. I finally located the mudhole backs on the valve gear fret! Parts for each sub-assembly can be located on any of the frets. I shall be amending the instructions accordingly..

 

[Horsetan]

 

...I'm as guilty as anyone of including detail that can't be seen but should be there. But just sometimes you should force yourself to be rational and leave it off.

This'll raise a giggle: I found a few photos of Flying Scotsman's frames during the lengthy overhaul. Sure enough, there were loads of rivet and boltholes, and I was looking forward to finally going blind at the rivet press. Then I found another photo of the repaired and painted frames being lowered onto the wheelsets; most of the rivets couldn't be seen under the paint!!! 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Horsetan

[Guest Lyonesse]

This'll raise a giggle: I found a few photos of Flying Scotsman's frames during the lengthy overhaul. Sure enough, there were loads of rivet and boltholes, and I was looking forward to finally going blind at the rivet press. Then I found another photo of the repaired and painted frames being lowered onto the wheelsets; most of the rivets couldn't be seen under the paint!!! 

Nice one.  You can pretty much search in vain for a prototype photo of a loco in normal service where mainframe rivet or bolt detail is visible.

[Nimbus]

This'll raise a giggle: I found a few photos of Flying Scotsman's frames during the lengthy overhaul. Sure enough, there were loads of rivet and boltholes, and I was looking forward to finally going blind at the rivet press. Then I found another photo of the repaired and painted frames being lowered onto the wheelsets; most of the rivets couldn't be seen under the paint!!! 

 

The treatment of rivet heads would depend on their age, i.e. when they were installed. Don't quote me, but I believe GNR practice was to dress flush, but the cost of doing this became unacceptable in later years, so localised frame repairs would not be uniform with original portions. On A1/A3's, a front quarter-frame replacement might also introduce a later pattern lightening hole on one side only.

 

I suppose if we knew when the working practice changed for new construction, that would give a baseline for our own chosen prototype.

 

The Nim.

[dibateg]

I grew to like V2s after getting 'Main Line Lament' when it came out a long time ago. Colin Walker commented about the shape of the Gresley boiler. It has a very graceful shape, but full of power and is captured perfectly in this kit. It has fitted together very nicely.

 

[JeffP]

I, too, have that same book. And it's been read and re-read so many times, I particularly liked the chapter on the Newspapaer train, pulled by A3 60104 "Solario", sadly scrapped by 1959 with severely cracked frames.

 

That boiler looks amazing, your soldering is very neat.

Loving this thread.

[Horsetan]

The treatment of rivet heads would depend on their age, i.e. when they were installed. Don't quote me, but I believe GNR practice was to dress flush, but the cost of doing this became unacceptable in later years, so localised frame repairs would not be uniform with original portions. On A1/A3's, a front quarter-frame replacement might also introduce a later pattern lightening hole on one side only.

 

I suppose if we knew when the working practice changed for new construction, that would give a baseline for our own chosen prototype....

All I'm trying to do is portray Flying Scotsman in her final 1963 service condition, and that's complicated enough.

[dibateg]

Does anyone know where the three pipes that come out of the rear ports on the atomiser go to?

 

I think they drop down vertically, then run horizontally and disappear behind the rising running plate. I've scoured all my books and have not been able to establish what they do exactly.

[Horsetan]

Does anyone know where the three pipes that come out of the rear ports on the atomiser go to?I think they drop down vertically, then run horizontally and disappear behind the rising running plate. I've scoured all my books and have not been able to establish what they do exactly....

I think we need a pipe 'n rod drawing for that, or someone to crawl around Green Arrow

[david.hill64]

Does anyone know where the three pipes that come out of the rear ports on the atomiser go to?

 

I think they drop down vertically, then run horizontally and disappear behind the rising running plate. I've scoured all my books and have not been able to establish what they do exactly.

 

I sympathise: this is always a problem. I strongly suspect that later in their lives no two locos were the same, so unless you have a detailed photo of the particular loco at the date of the model, I think you can do just what you say. Nobody will be any wiser!

 

On other LNER locos one pipe tended to go into the steam pipe.

 

I do not claim to be any sort of expert!!!

[Dave Holt]

Don't know if it helps, but atomisers have an individual oil feed pipe from the mechanical lubricator (for cylinder oil - locos with two lubricators will have one for the cylinders and one for mechanical parts filled with different types of oil) and a delivery pipe to the valve chamber or cylinder bore, for each run through the block of atomisers. There is generally a single steam feed to the whole assembly, which will be a larger bore than the oil pipes.

I can't say for sure on V2's, but it would be logical for the rear pipes to be the oil feeds from the lubricator(s) - which might be on the opposite side of the loco and the pipes routed across a frame stretcher and thew front pipes the delivery to the cylinders. On LNER locos, the steam feed appears to go in the top.

As others have said, detailed photos or a review of Green Arrow (or possibly Flying Scotsman, as the arrangement is probably similar) is the best source of accurate information. Small bore lubrication pipework rarely appears on pie & rod drawings.

Dave.

[Horsetan]

.... pie & rod drawings.

 

Are these drawings porkie pies, then?

[dibateg]

Thanks guys, if anyone has a photo of that area on Green Arrow, that would do!

[Horsetan]

.....if anyone has a photo of that area on Green Arrow, that would do!

 

Any good?

[dibateg]

Thanks Horsetan, that shows the pipes as I thought. Running along the running plate after dropping down vertically.

Regards

[david.hill64]

Thanks Horsetan, that shows the pipes as I thought. Running along the running plate after dropping down vertically.

Regards

Ah! Should have read your post properly: you did specify the rear ports........................

[ozzyo]

 

Any good?

 

 

Thanks Horsetan, that shows the pipes as I thought. Running along the running plate after dropping down vertically.

Regards

 

Looking at Horstans post the two pipes running in to the "atomiser" could have come from the mec. lub box on this side for the footplate and only feed the front and rear of the cylinder.

But where would the feed for the piston valve have come from?

 

Or was the L.N.E.R. using a hydrostatic Lub. system on it's locos? If it was it would have been the big Detroit (is that spelt correctly?)  type. This would normal have been on the drivers side of the cab. 

 

A nice looking build Tony.

 

OzzyO.

[Dave Holt]

 

 

 

Looking at Horstans post the two pipes running in to the "atomiser" could have come from the mec. lub box on this side for the footplate and only feed the front and rear of the cylinder.

But where would the feed for the piston valve have come from?

 

Or was the L.N.E.R. using a hydrostatic Lub. system on it's locos? If it was it would have been the big Detroit (is that spelt correctly?)  type. This would normal have been on the drivers side of the cab. 

 

A nice looking build Tony.

 

OzzyO.

 

OzzyO,

If you look closely, I think you'll find there are three oil feed pipes visible near the rear smokebox support saddle. As far as I can see, V2's had two mechanical lubricators, both on the LH side. I presume one fed the cylinders and the other the mechanical parts. I'm fairly sure there was no hydrostatic lubricator in the cab.

Dave.

[ozzyo]

OzzyO,

If you look closely, I think you'll find there are three oil feed pipes visible near the rear smokebox support saddle. As far as I can see, V2's had two mechanical lubricators, both on the LH side. I presume one fed the cylinders and the other the mechanical parts. I'm fairly sure there was no hydrostatic lubricator in the cab.

Dave.

 

Hello Dave,

 

as you say it does look like there are three oil pipes running to the atomiser and three pipes running out, if that is the case one pipe runs to the front of the cylinder, one pipe to the piston valve and one pipe to the rear of the cylinder. On this side.

If that is the case the second mec. lub. box should have six feed pipes coming out of it to do the same job as it will have to feed two sets of cylinders.

 

I'll have to see if I have any books showing the Mec Lub. drawing for any of the L.N.E.R. to help with this.

 

OzzyO.

[dibateg]

Thanks Paul - I suspect then the 3 rearward facing pipes go to the mech lubricator.

 

The cab is pretty well done, I used Hobbyhorse cinder guards instead of the etchings in the kit. Its not fixed together yet - that is a task for today.

 

 

The cab roof is a little challenging due to it's complicated shape, there is a jig that is cut away afterwards to form it up. With care and time it comes together fine.

 

For curving small sections I use this piece of skirting board and some steel bar - it does the job.

[Killybegs]

 

The cab is pretty well done, I used Hobbyhorse cinder guards instead of the etchings in the kit. 

 

I often wondered if there was a name for those little blighters.

[david.hill64]

Coming along nicely and up to your usual excellent standard.

[Horsetan]

Coming along nicely and up to your usual excellent standard.

 

Agree, and loads of useful close-ups for 1:76 builders.

[richard i]

You seem to have picked one of the double framed variants. They were not often photographed and were rarely seen outside of the north east. It will be good to see one of these finally being modeled .