Continuus Layout Idea 2

[Katier]

I've decided that the Tettenhall plan definitely works best with the 26ft plan I came up with so have decided to go back to the Continuous plan I'll do first and then work on the Tettenhall one slowly as a second project while I have the continuous layout as a semi-perminant plan.

 

 

 

 

I've decided for this I'll do a 'Inspired by' plan using the inspiration of Birmingham Moor street station as the basis. So GWR or maybe around 1960ish as I'm not anti-diesel and either stock would work with Tettenhall in the future. Single station with both terminus and through lines as per the current Moor Street plus possibly a Goods yard and facilities. I've come up with the following plan but it has a lot of flaws so I'm hoping someone can think up and even throw together alternative plans. I'd ideally like 3 terminus lines, 2 through lines. good yard. The plan below has a branch line which of course doesn't need access to all platforms while the mainline would. Tempted to base the goods yard off of Wolverhampton's goods shed but that would be perhaps too naughty as that's a LSWR not GWR shed.

 

 

 

 

Plan is 83x39 inches in n-scale. Ideally max train size is tender loco + 5 coaches with other passenger services being potentially :-

 

2 car DMU

 

Railcars

 

pushpull 14xx

 

3-4 coach tank hauled units.

 

 

Note this plan is a VERY rough concept showing the basis of what I'm thinking. I am aware, for instance, that there are no run-around facilities in the terminus section of the station. The landscape over the tunnel at the station end would be inspired by Moor Street and indeed I'd probably build the station building directly off moor steet. I imagine the station would be as per moor street on a viaduct but not sure where to go.. in short.. I'm stuck!!

 

Incidently all curves that are hidden are 12" or slacker ( the double line is 12 and 13)

 

 

[The Great Bear]

I'm afraid it's not clear to me looking at the plan where the station is and whethether there is a fiddle yard...

 

If you want to combine a continuous run and a terminus then Moor Street is a good choice as an inspiration and the tunnel gives a convincing scenic break, not anything contrived. The other end is harder to match prototype as the line largely straight and on a viaduct. But a tall building might work as a scenic break if you want one.

 

Of course when the station was in use originally the there were no through platforms, only the terminal ones.For the run around loop, the real Moor Street used a traverser instead of points to save space instead of therelease points. Regarding the goods yard, in terms of tracks Moor Street was quite compact with the goods sheds and liftts down to the lower level goods facilities. If one was really into architectural modelling this would make a fascinating model but a very tall modelling order indeed. (In about 20 years, when I get the skills and time!)

 

If you haven't seen it, track plan of the real Moor Street here also lots of photos here. The approach trackwork is very complex but it might give you some ideas.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jon

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I'm not familiar with the scheme for Moor Street; however based on your list of requirements, the following rough sketch came to mind...

 

The branch comes in from the top right, whilst a small goods yard is at the bottom left.

 

I have taken a couple of liberties here. Firstly, the branch platform is on the opposite side of the station to the terminating roads, and secondly the small goods yard is where you located the original terminating roads. I make no claims as to accuracy or prototype adherance, only that it looks to be fairly satisfactory in operational terms, assuming that you use DMUs or push-pull sets in the terminus roads.

 

A minor modification to the entry tracks for the two terminating roads could share a track, and headshunt, with the goods yard...which could also lend itself to a loco stabling siding. Would perhaps allow the use of conventional loco-hauled into the terminating tracks.

 

I would also add that this sketch only covers the light green area, which I have taken to be the viewing side...

[Katier]

Thanks both. On my plan the station is bottom right, I am very familiar with Moor Street having lived near Wythall on the western route to Stratford and thus remember it from pre-new snow hill days.

 

 

 

 

This, however, is inspired by Moor Street rather than a model off Moor Street although as the building is a very good example of a small GWR terminus station ( small when compared to something like Marylebone) the architecture would be heavily based on it.

 

 

 

 

Claudes plan would work although I think I'd have the headshunt running towards the station and the goods facilities away from the station as I would like to include the viaduct seen at the real moor street. Basically because the southern end of the real moor street doesn't have any useable scenic breaks for quite a distance, it won't be a replica/model of moor street but will be based on it in some aspects.

 

 

[Katier]

Ok done some revisions based on the suggestions. Fairly happy with it although the fiddle yard is a bit clunky and don't like how close to the front of the baseboard the track comes. Any suggestions would be accepted in how to improve that aspect so I have room for the viaduct along the front - at least by the goods yard.

 

BTW the station platforms are just shy of 36" long, if I curved the ends then 36 is definitely feasible for the longest platform and i could extend the other through platform into the tunnel couldn't I?

 

 

What do you folks think so far?

 

 

 

 

 

Must saying doing a full Moor Street would be an AWSOME model sometime.. I think I'll call this station 'Park Street' as it's inspired by Moor Street and Park Street was used as the entrance for the goods yard.

 

Thanks

 

Kat

[Kris]

The front part works but I feel you will need far more storage in the fiddle area to make the layout a success. I would also say that the curve on the branch looks to be exceptionally tight.

[Katier]

The branch is probably a touch tight that's just railmodeller auto-adjusting the radius to fit. In the real model I'm sure some adjustments to the point position and other curves to the mainline would be simple and slacken that curve.

 

I'm not happy with the fiddle yard Kris so would welcome a revised design. I put the scissors crossing in to avoid cross overs in the main part of the fiddle yard but still not happy. I don't want to put a traverser in because it's too complex (plus the layout with be operated from the front).

 

 

[Kris]

Just quickly knocked this together for the fiddle yard area (excluding the branch). Peco medium points and 2nd and 3rd radius set track curves.

 

 

[Flying Pig]

I don't know whether you could fit it into the layout, but I've had a go at a more Moor St-like station throat. It's quite heavy on pointwork as befits a large urban station and I've introduced a single relief line for goods and loco shunts.

 

I left out the branch as I don't think it adds a lot to the operation: you could always imagine there was a junction just off-scene (suggested with signals) and run a railcar into the terminal platforms.

 

 

If you wanted to show the branch junction, I'd suggest this arrangement:

 

[Katier]

Thankyou both.

 

Flying Pig, is the Relief line intended as a third incoming line - i.e. it's a triple mainline in effect? (which logically I'd size down to double before entering the fiddle area)

 

 

[Katier]

Oh, Kris, was thinking of using non-setrack for the in-scene stuff, can I mix set track with peco's other ranges?

 

I'm assuming there are some compatibiity issues I have to consider.

 

 

[pirouets]

Katier

 

I mix code 55 with code 80 set-track curves and I get a better curve to my fiddle yard than I could lay with flex track. The track is the same rail, just the code 55 has a finer way of creating the rail profile by embedding some of the rail into the sleeper web rather than sitting on top. Hope this helps

[Kris]

All peco N gauge track is designed to work together with no compatibility issues. I just used set track in the design for ease, there is no reason why this could not be replaced by flexi.

[Flying Pig]

Thankyou both.

 

Flying Pig, is the Relief line intended as a third incoming line - i.e. it's a triple mainline in effect? (which logically I'd size down to double before entering the fiddle area)

It's intended as an incoming and outgoing line (a simplification of the prototype's separate up and down relief lines) for local goods, light engines and maybe even the branch passenger train, as well as a headshunt clear of the main lines. Sorry I didn't make that at all clear.

 

Whether it needs to connect with the main line in the fiddle yard is moot though: if it helps to fit things in I think you could treat it as a separate route with its own sidings for the traffic mentioned above.

[Katier]

I liked the suggestion of having the branch off track and have done some major surgery to the plan but still open to suggestions and improvements as there is a lot of pointwork so probably some mistakes.

 

To save space I've combined the Good/Relief lines fiddle yard with the down line still worried about space at the bottom, begining to think I'm going to have to steal an inch or two of room - enlarge the baseboard a touch.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks so far

 

 

 

[Kris]

Save yourself some money and loose the scissors crossing in the station. You might find a training crossover but it is very unlikely to find a scissors crossover.

[Katier]

Must say I like the look of the triple lines - makes it look more convincing without really adding to the space used. Incidently the curves in view are 12, 13 and 14" radii while the hidden ones are set track 2nd/3rd with the outer being 13" I think from memory.

[Katier]

Think I'm happy with the plan apart from swapping out the crossover for something else or just straights. One thing I love is the mainline platforms can extend into the tunnel giving me the capability of running the occasional longer train. Pretty sure the longest outer siding will hold 6 coaches + 6" loco while the inner might even cater for a 7 coach train.

 

Anyway that's the track plan sorted.. which forum section is the best to discuss track, stock, wiring and baseboards? (i.e. discuss the next stages in planning and procuring stuff)

 

 

[The Great Bear]

Looks good, relief line offers lot of operating interest have trains circulating whilst running local service or shunting the yard.

 

What are you going to do for the scenic break on the RH side, an overbridge?. If so because of the angle it's at the aperture in the backscene facing you, you might need to extend say a vertical retaining wall on the outside a bit beyond the break until the cuve finishes.You've got space to do it so not a problem. What's going to go in the scenic area in the middle, is say the whole layout in a retained cutting then you can put street above - this would fit with the line then disappearing into the tunnel. (The ground around Moor street must be on quite a slope for the station and goods shed to be on viaduct then straight away go into a tunnel, though the tunnel's not deep just below street level? Don't know Birmingham)

 

Might also be worth doodling the structures to see things like platform widths fit etc, just might save some pain down the line?

 

As for where to put things on RMWeb, pretty new here myself so others might have better ideas, but maybe start a layout thread with pics, links to this thread? Keeps it in one place, but if the questions are generic or going to get very in depth use other forums like wiring etc. Then you can title your thread which makes others finding things bit easier.

 

Look forward to following this one develop further.

 

Jon

[Katier]

Below is a link to streetview, as you can see it's a quite strange situation as a platform level entrance is within yards of a steep decent (right) and the tunnel which goes under the hump in the road to the left (the tunnel entrance is just beyond the pedestrial lights at the top of the hill).

 

Google Stret view

 

The goods yards used to occupy the space where the car park is at the bottom of the hill and extended all the way up the road. The road at the bottom is Park street that used to divide the lower yards with a concrete roof supporting the upper yard.

 

While this model won't be a replica of Birmingham as such, it will include the hill and the Park Street bridge. Interestingly Moor Street is actually built on top of the tunnel that feeds New Steet station and runs in approximately the alignment of the view on streetview. Beyond Moor street would I guess have been industrial and/or back to back housing. Unfortunately that are was ripped apart by the wastefull destruction caused by the now non-exisant ring road.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Great Bear]

Thanks, that and the Street View pic explains the topography very well.

[Kris]

Anyway that's the track plan sorted.. which forum section is the best to discuss track, stock, wiring and baseboards? (i.e. discuss the next stages in planning and procuring stuff)

 

 

 

 

Good to hear that your happy with the plan. If you ask one of the Mods nicely (click on the report button on any post in the topic) they are able to move it to the layouts section of the forum as they is the best place for it to be as you are building it. If you have specific questions about things like baseboards it's well worth doing a quick search as there is a massive amount of info already on here about materials (different people have there own preferences), building techniques and where to get things from.

 

 

[Flying Pig]

A bit late now your ideas have settled, but I came up with this plan based on an operating well in the board, so everything's reversed for viewing from the centre. I think it would look quite good, but the terminal platforms are possibly a bit on the short side.

 

 

BTW, anyone feel like moving this scheme Up North as a sort of homage to Manchester Victoria? There's stacks of LMR motive power and stock for such a layout set in the transition period (though pace coachmann you'd need to use Derby Type 2s as bankers rather than Lanky Class 27s).

[Katier]

Decided to move to a fresh thread to save people wading through the design planning. They can come here and add to this thread if they have design suggestions.

 

New thread :-

 

Park Street