Heljan 'OO' DP2

[Guest Phil]

Spot on there Rob.

 

If manufacturers produce products for the consumer to buy, the consumer will express a preference, whether it is a car, television, pizza or holiday. The toy train industry is probably no different to any other, and i guess there are plenty of opinions spawned on forums up and down the country relating to any such consumer goods.

 

Why should a railway forum not discuss products ?

 

As for praise when its due, i hope i gave Bachmann plenty when i bought my Bachmann 3F from Lucy at Modellers Mecca. Ive not yet praised Dapoldave for his really sweet D6316, because he is still in Japan, and will almost certainly be praising the guys from Barwell again when i purchase the first of a few 4Fs.

 

Ive said before that there is no way i can reproduce a locomotive from a kit, motorize and paint it, then enjoy it for the price these models are retailing at. The question which needs to be asked is why it has taken the British market to finally catch up with the furriners, but that really is another debate. In the meantime "old lugger" if you dont mind, i'll carry on as i am.

[Guest jim s-w]

Hi Simon

 

Can you perhaps elaborate on why you think the flak manufacturers get is 'undeserved'? As for the do better arguement thats just pointless. If you go to a top resturant and the food was only as good as you can make at home (which in my case wouldn't really qualify as 'food') would you pay the asking price thinking, well i cant do any better?

 

Dont forget that some of the mix and match merchants actually buy twice the models of those who are jst greatfull for what they are given to get what they want. If you want a decent early 25 you need to buy both a Hornby one and a Bachmann one)

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Bernard Lamb]

With the amount of undeserved flak Heljan, and other model railway manufacturers receive on this forum by the modelling mafia, I'm surprised that some of them don't pull the plug and move out of the UK market. Who could blame them if they did? No one forces you to buy these models. If you want the perfect loco, scratch build it yourself and then you'll see just how hard it is to reproduce. I've scratch built O gauge diesels and it's frigging hard to get them right. It would make such a nice change to read positive appraisals of new releases rather than the usual miserable nit picking and rivet counting discussions. I'm sure most will hotly disagree with me (nowt new there) but you should hear yourselves.

 

Simon

Flak?

What flak?

I see some mild comments on here but nothing of the nature that I used to encounter at work.

I have only once reorted to making a comment about a model on the lines of scrap it and start again.

I try to flag up points so that others can make an informed choice as to their course of action.

The recent Hornby B17 is a superb model, but several points have been raised that enable the modeller to improve it even further.

What is wrong with that?

Or should every body run them straight out of the box in ignorance?

I am certainly not miserable.

I worked for a company for over thirty years where the policy was improve or go under.

We were taught to under promise and over achieve.

This attitude does remain in the blood.

One reason I am against the direction that Hornby seem to be going.

Funnily enough I do tend to buy Heljan locos of late with an East Anlian bias and find them to be rather better than most, though........

Bernard

[dagrizz]

After much procrastination and reading this thread, I bought an early green DP2 at the Leamington show today. I enjoy watching trains go by on my roundy-roundy at home and I think the Heljan model looks good from a typical viewing distance, especially with a rake of maroon Mk1's in tow. I particularly like the clackety-clack as the floating wheelsets pass over points. No derailments, but I do have a 2ft 6 inch minimum radius.

 

Graham    

[60027Merlin]

I have not had sufficient time to read all this thread as I am more a steam fan however the Heljan DP2 has performed well on the layout and has a real presence with a great pulling power.

 

Hopefully Heljan will now produce the Production Deltics

 

 

[the-gog]

(Snip)Hopefully Heljan will now produce the Production Deltics

Eh what? With that incorrect nose profile? I'd rather hope they leave them well alone, or preferably start from scratch by laser-scanning one of the many preserved examples. You know, like Dapol did with the Western, further improved by members of this forum. Look at what Dapol have managed to achieve with the D63xx - and the last of those was cut up decades ago. As for Heljan's track record, let me see - 'tubby duff', a Class 86 riddled with errors. Hopefully, by the looks of it they've clawed back their reputation with the Class 128 DPU. Fingers crossed, toes crossed.

 

RWJ

[birdseyecircus]

Eh what? With that incorrect nose profile? I'd rather hope they leave them well alone, or preferably start from scratch by laser-scanning one of the many preserved examples. You know, like Dapol did with the Western, further improved by members of this forum. Look at what Dapol have managed to achieve with the D63xx - and the last of those was cut up decades ago. As for Heljan's track record, let me see - 'tubby duff', a Class 86 riddled with errors. Hopefully, by the looks of it they've clawed back their reputation with the Class 128 DPU. Fingers crossed, toes crossed.

 

RWJ

 Oh and you missed out the bit about Heljan having the bottle to produce RTR models which others would not have touched- insert HS4000, Falcon, Lion, Class 15, Rail buses etc.

 

Paul

[the penguin of doom]

Eh what? With that incorrect nose profile? I'd rather hope they leave them well alone, or preferably start from scratch by laser-scanning one of the many preserved examples. You know, like Dapol did with the Western, further improved by members of this forum. Look at what Dapol have managed to achieve with the D63xx - and the last of those was cut up decades ago. As for Heljan's track record, let me see - 'tubby duff', a Class 86 riddled with errors. Hopefully, by the looks of it they've clawed back their reputation with the Class 128 DPU. Fingers crossed, toes crossed.

 

RWJ

I'd have to agree.....

 

Ironically, didn't Dapol discontinue plans for their DP2 when Heljan announced theirs? I honestly think that Dapol should consider recommencing their model.....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[250BOB]

 Oh and you missed out the bit about Heljan having the bottle to produce RTR models which others would not have touched- insert HS4000, Falcon, Lion, Class 15, Rail buses etc.

 

Paul

And beyer garratt just around the corner.!?!?

[Downendian]

Yes - I agree there are a fair few mistakes in the Heljan range.

But on the flip side there are some super models - class 15, 28, 26/27 33/1 33/2 Kestrel,Lion and their fantastic Hymek.

I have a pretty large Heljan fleet and they have served the obscure diesel fraternity well.

 

As mentioned earlier the critical viewpoints are raised because many of us are modellers and want to improve RTR. I get really frustrated every time a criticism is raised and all sorts of comments re "0.0000005 inches out brigade" then surface from people that are obviously content to plug and play straight out of the box. One mans constructive criticism is anothers rivet counting. Peace in our time etc.

 

Neil

[birdseyecircus]

To be fair the Garrett, Class 14 and Cobo were comissions.

 

Paul

[250BOB]

To be fair the Garrett, Class 14 and Cobo were comissions.

 

Paul

Yes you are quite right Paul....but does that make a difference.?

Bob

[birdseyecircus]

I guess Heljan may well have picked them up on their own without being commissioned over time.

 

Paul

[250BOB]

I guess Heljan may well have picked them up on their own without being commissioned over time.

 

Paul

I wonder if they are commissions....that the commissioners might put the microscope on them a bit more. perhaps.?

[the-gog]

 Oh and you missed out the bit about Heljan having the bottle to produce RTR models which others would not have touched- insert HS4000, Falcon, Lion, Class 15, Rail buses etc.

 

Paul

Full marks to them for doing so. They can manufacture anything they want, provided they get it right. That's the point. Witness Rail Exclusive commissioning them to produce an *accurate* Class 33, even though a version of it has already been produced by them.

 

At least Bachmann have had the guts to put their hand up and admit they got the 40 wrong, resulting in brand new tooling. My shopping list is getting lengthier and lengthier...

[BrushVeteran]

I guess Heljan may well have picked them up on their own without being commissioned over time.

 

Paul

Certainly the Class 14 and Class 28 were intended to be normal Heljan releases and the majority of the research and cad work/colour layouts had been authorised by the time they became commissions.

[the-gog]

I wonder if they are commissions....that the commissioners might put the microscope on them a bit more. perhaps.?

Did I hear someone mention EM1 and EM2?

[the-gog]

I'd have to agree.....

 

Ironically, didn't Dapol discontinue plans for their DP2 when Heljan announced theirs? I honestly think that Dapol should consider recommencing their model.....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

The prospect of an *accurate* Dapol Deltic is positively mouth-watering.

 

RWJ

[BrushVeteran]

Did I hear someone mention EM1 and EM2?

These were entirely the work of the commissioner.

[Downendian]

I agree - correct that nose taper and they are in business. The ride height on DP2 is just spot on and performance is superb.

 

I've spent the last week comparing Dapol and Heljan's Western- if Heljan correct the peaked cab roof, come to a solution for the brake rigging and put some etched scavenger grilles on board they will continue to sell their Westerns despite the good quality opposition with the Dapol model. Again their performance is superb. Look at their Hymeks - they sell out a few months after their release - I'm sure they are well happy with the returns from that tooling. Don't give up your Western Heljan!

 

Neil

[the penguin of doom]

The prospect of an *accurate* Dapol Deltic is positively mouth-watering.

 

RWJ

I was thinking more of a "better" DP2 first, and, just for the record, I agree, there are a good few Heljan models worthy of praise.

 

Don't want to really get back into the knocking Heljan phase, but their DP2 can either be improved or improved on.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[the penguin of doom]

I have not had sufficient time to read all this thread as I am more a steam fan however the Heljan DP2 has performed well on the layout and has a real presence with a great pulling power.

 

Hopefully Heljan will now produce the Production Deltics

 

DP2 (11).JPG

Smashing weathering too Merlin.

 

That really is nice.....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[DJM Dave]

I agree - correct that nose taper and they are in business. The ride height on DP2 is just spot on and performance is superb.

I've spent the last week comparing Dapol and Heljan's Western- if Heljan correct the peaked cab roof, come to a solution for the brake rigging and put some etched scavenger grilles on board they will continue to sell their Westerns despite the good quality opposition with the Dapol model. Again their performance is superb. Look at their Hymeks - they sell out a few months after their release - I'm sure they are well happy with the returns from that tooling. Don't give up your Western Heljan!

Neil

Hi Neil,

 

If that's all you think sets the 2 westerns apart, I'm afraid I must disagree.

A cursory glance at both (presuming that the Dapol one is accurate of course), shows them to be easily distinguishable from each other on a lot more points than you raise.

 

Rest assured I wouldn't have spent £100k of Dapol's money on just 3 little points of difference.

Cheers

Dave

[the-gog]

I was thinking more of a "better" DP2 first, and, just for the record, I agree, there are a good few Heljan models worthy of praise.

 

Don't want to really get back into the knocking Heljan phase, but their DP2 can either be improved or improved on.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

Improved? Yes. Improved on? With difficulty. Basically it would require a brand new resin nose section produced (hello PH Design?), and the existing one sawn off. The chassis may also need to be tapered as well. I don't mind improving my models, but I don't consider major butchery like this to be an acceptable thing to have to do to get the "look" right. Minor errors that can be fixed relatively easily are one thing; body shape errors like this are another.

 

(Tomorrow's fun and games is the continuation of dismantling the spare Hornby Cl 50 chassis that arrived in the post today. The drivetrain's going to get modified to replace the worm with a pinion, once everything's measured up.)

 

RWJ

[BR Blue]

I agree - correct that nose taper and they are in business. The ride height on DP2 is just spot on and performance is superb.

 

I've spent the last week comparing Dapol and Heljan's Western- if Heljan correct the peaked cab roof, come to a solution for the brake rigging and put some etched scavenger grilles on board they will continue to sell their Westerns despite the good quality opposition with the Dapol model. Again their performance is superb. Look at their Hymeks - they sell out a few months after their release - I'm sure they are well happy with the returns from that tooling. Don't give up your Western Heljan!

 

Neil

And this is the issue a lot of people have with Heljan "if they correct....". The problem is they never do. Even when they get it wrong at the CAD stage and its pointed out to them, they go ahead anyway. True they produce some very good models but they have more than their fair share of turkeys. They could take a leaf out of Dapol's book and listen to feeback to help improve the final model. Hornby and especially Bachmann listen and correct their models. I am not holding my breath waiting for Heljan to improve their class 52, I will just buy Dapol ones. Luckily, fingers crossed Heljan seem to have got the 128 right.