vac_basher Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 A few more photos, this time of the tone tone green version.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
campaigner Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Many thanks for the pics, yes it may not be totally correct, but it looks good enough to me and there's certainly no mistaking what it is. So I'm going to buy one. Thanks again for the pics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 This shot. Damn. It just looks so RIGHT on its bogies and from this angle. I'm swaying. Even with the bodyside error, I am definitely swaying back to the "must have" side. Lord - one of the negatives of RMweb - excellent photograph of models which make you ah and um and finally give up and get the wallet out anyway every time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Well, they must be doing well despite the issues as I've bought the last all green one from Howes! Admittedly I don't know how many there were in stock or if anymore are on the way but was interesting none the less. I also think that the all green cab hides the lightbulbing a little better than the white which draws the eye to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespa Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I got my DP2 last week but only gave it a quick once over due to workmen around the house. I have read much criticism about it on here and on other websites. I have studied many photos of it (the real thing) and can only come to the conclusion that some people are hypercritical of the model. I think that it reflects the real loco with flying colours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted May 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2012 I got my DP2 last week but only gave it a quick once over due to workmen around the house. I have read much criticism about it on here and on other websites. I have studied many photos of it (the real thing) and can only come to the conclusion that some people are hypercritical of the model. I think that it reflects the real loco with flying colours. OK,then---give it a run around your layout & let us know how it performs on the track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I got my DP2 last week but only gave it a quick once over due to workmen around the house. I have read much criticism about it on here and on other websites. I have studied many photos of it (the real thing) and can only come to the conclusion that some people are hypercritical of the model. I think that it reflects the real loco with flying colours. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but to denigrate the thoughtful and generally accurate statements more knowledgeable people than myself have put out - for everyone's benefit - does them and yourself a disservice. It's not perfect - it will be good enough for some, and not for others. If a spade's a spade, then what is wrong, is wrong. Best to have all the facts to hand and make a decision based on that, than to listen to one side of the debate only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted May 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2012 This shot. Damn. It just looks so RIGHT on its bogies and from this angle. I'm swaying. Even with the bodyside error, I am definitely swaying back to the "must have" side. Lord - one of the negatives of RMweb - excellent photograph of models which make you ah and um and finally give up and get the wallet out anyway every time! Yes,me too. I empathise,especially since I saw the prototype hauling a Euston-Liverpool express in 1963. I'd love one but I'm still wary of exercising the plastic in the light of some postings on this thread regarding certain eccentricities in its track-holding performance.It'll look wonderful heading a rake of maroon mark ones or Metro-Cam Pullmans. 'A nice dilemma we have here which calls for all our wit' (apologies to W.S. Gilbert). I know that despite all,I shall probably succumb soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 . I have studied many photos of it (the real thing) and can only come to the conclusion that some people are hypercritical of the model. I think that it reflects the real loco with flying colours. By the same logic, I can only come to the conclusion that some people aren't that good at comparing models with photos. But hey, chacon a son gout and all that - I thought we'd done well to get this far without it being decided what was good enough for us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I got my DP2 last week but only gave it a quick once over due to workmen around the house. I have read much criticism about it on here and on other websites. I have studied many photos of it (the real thing) and can only come to the conclusion that some people are hypercritical of the model. I think that it reflects the real loco with flying colours. You can see but have you ever learned to 'look'? Most people haven't they are led by thier pre-determined conclusions. There are people that swear blind all tree trunks are always brown because that's what they were told as a toddler and they have never properly looked at a tree in thier entire lives. What is the arrangement of the rear lights on your car? Bet you see it every day but do you ever look at it? Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delticfan Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I got my two tone one on Saturday and I think it captures the look of the loco well, maybe the headcodes could be better but that's easily changed. The thing that impresses me is the way it sits on the bogies - it just looks right, I work with Deltics and I know the things that aren't quite right but hey so what, the overall impression is what counts! Don't forget the wheels are over 2mm too narrow on gauge but everyone overlooks that and gets hung up how something is 0.5mm out - so what. We won't get another RTR DP2 again and I think Heljan have done alright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I was with you right up until you mentioned the 'G' word. Trust me, that one's the MR equivalent of Godwin's law and is best left out of a polite conversation. Faults aside though, it's still not bad! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I was with you right up until you mentioned the 'G' word. Trust me, that one's the MR equivalent of Godwin's law and is best left out of a polite conversation. Faults aside though, it's still not bad! Dave. Maybe delticfan was just gauging opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I got my DP2 last week but only gave it a quick once over due to workmen around the house. I have read much criticism about it on here and on other websites. I have studied many photos of it (the real thing) and can only come to the conclusion that some people are hypercritical of the model. I think that it reflects the real loco with flying colours. I really have to take issue with this comment since I'm sure that I'll be one of the "hypercritical" modellers you refer to! Firstly, those who know me, both online and in person know that I'm generally laid back and VERY reserved with my comments. Vespa, for you to generalise and label people who spot a defect with a model and see fit to write about it on a forum such as this so that those less in the know can benefit from that knowledge is misguided to say the least. That is what these forums are about and I'm sorry, but if you don't like that, you're looking in the wrong place! Secondly, if you were to take a look over on my thread, you will see that I have done a very extensive conversion of the Bachmann and Silver Fox models and in doing so, I too have studied many pictures of this locomotive. I am currently half way through a second major conversion to improve on my previous effort. My point? I feel I am in a position to be able to cast an eye over the Heljan locomotive and objectively point out some of the defects. As I said earlier, I am not THE expert, but I am "an" expert! Like it or not, the Heljan cab, (like the O gauge deltic), is wrong! I don't care how you dress it up, the profile is wrong...... If I hadn't have mentioned it, someone else would have and there are plenty of pictures on the web to show this. Unfortunately, many of the pictures in my possession are subject to copyright, but If you would like a full list of other "Hypercritical" observations, just say so and I'll arrange to show you some pictures and pop back to the model shop and cast a second eye over it! Thirdly, before accusing me, (and others), of being "hypercritical", please be aware that when I attempt a conversion, I am VERY open to comments from people who are far more in the know than me and feel able to point me in the right direction where, otherwise, I may have gone astray. My current Trans - Pennine model is a good example of this. Many people out there, (myself included), are more than happy to tap into this myriad of expertise available to all on this site. So, to summarise. Please don't post veiled put downs about my observations as, to me, it's quite clear that many people find them valid and informative. To those who have had to read through my rant and are happy with their model, I apologise. Please do continue to enjoy your model of DP2, which - and I've said this before - Heljan have produced a long overdue model in RTR form which is clearly impressing the majority if not all of it's purchasers. It is obvious to me, that the important thing is that when you take the model out of the box, she looks like DP2. I don't think I need to say any more..... Now, can we get back to the task at hand..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted May 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2012 Sean,I wholeheartedly agree with your posting. A simple question. Do your samples have any wayward inclinations with regard to track-holding ,i.e. over pointwork,reverse curves,radius clearance,etc? I'd be very grateful for your observations. Yes---it is a 'warts and all' loco but if it stays on the rails heading a train of Bachmann Mark 1's,then I'll buy. Cheers,Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It's simply comes down to this. Some people are happy with what they get and will overlook it's faults, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that if that's what they want to do. Others take a model from it's box an their first thought is always 'how can I make it look better' nothing wrong with that either. Problem comes when the latter thinks everyone should do the same or the former thinks the detailers are being OTT. A thread like this is always going to focus on the rights and wrongs of a model and quite frankly if you are not interested that's perfectly fine but topics like this are perhaps not the place for you. The detailers know people will be happy with the model, they don't need to know who and knowing that won't change thier mind either. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Sean,I wholeheartedly agree with your posting. A simple question. Do your samples have any wayward inclinations with regard to track-holding ,i.e. over pointwork,reverse curves,radius clearance,etc? I'd be very grateful for your observations. Yes---it is a 'warts and all' loco but if it stays on the rails heading a train of Bachmann Mark 1's,then I'll buy. Cheers,Ian. Hi Ian. Unfortunately, I've not had an opportunity to run one, hence I've shied away from commonting on this aspect. If I become aware of any issues from friends who may purchase the loco I'll let you know. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I got my DP2 last week but only gave it a quick once over due to workmen around the house. I have read much criticism about it on here and on other websites. I have studied many photos of it (the real thing) and can only come to the conclusion that some people are hypercritical of the model. I think that it reflects the real loco with flying colours. Maybe some people are just easily pleased? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Firstly, those who know me, both online and in person know that I'm generally laid back and VERY reserved with my comments. Vespa, for you to generalise and label people who spot a defect with a model and see fit to write about it on a forum such as this so that those less in the know can benefit from that knowledge is misguided to say the least. That is what these forums are about and I'm sorry, but if you don't like that, you're looking in the wrong place! Sean, if it were possible I'd give your admirably restrained post more than one 'like'. I really do wish that more folk could get their head around the concept of informed choice, and that these discussions are about information flow (or should be). It's not about sides, nobody needs to be right or wrong as such and there should be no need for confrontation. If you have too much info in front of you, you can choose to disregard some of it, but if you dont have enough, it could prevent you from making a decision. A post that says 'I bought one, it's great' tells me little - but I can live with it, whereas a post that says 'it's great and you lot are too fussy' just gets my back up, every time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 After reading through this thread and being able to see the "hampster cheeks" in all their glory AND after seeing the loco in the flesh, I went away, had a think and decided to buy a plain green one (as the cheeks are not as noticable). The trouble was, by the time I had made my mind up, they had sold all the bl00dy things! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 ....by the time I had made my mind up, they had sold all the bl00dy things! Ah, but at least that's saved your money for other things! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I really do wish that more folk could get their head around the concept of informed choice, and that these discussions are about information flow (or should be). It's not about sides, nobody needs to be right or wrong as such and there should be no need for confrontation. If you have too much info in front of you, you can choose to disregard some of it, but if you dont have enough, it could prevent you from making a decision. That might be where things are going wrong Ian. There might be some mileage in having all new models checked by independent engineering consultants. Though getting any one to pay for that might be a touch more difficult and there would still be those who would disagree. I spent many weeks of my working life checking first offs and was used to being right even when I was wrong. You had to be a brave man to live with the consequences at times. I try to keep out of these discussions regarding shape. In particular regard to the subtle multi radius curves on a diesel nose, I wonder how often the prototype was made before the drawing was produced. Other examples from the steam age are available. As you so rightly say it's about making an informed choice. It is after all only a hobby. Nobody is going to get killed as a result of a model being a fraction out. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I am still undecided as to whether to buy or not. On the one hand, I feel I should (have Falcon, Kestral (sic) and Lion) and I have looked at some photos that lead to me to think it would be worthwhile. I have also seen photos that show it in a less than favourable light. Not forgetting that it is a "small plastic train", the debate thus far has been fascinating. Both sides haved acknowledged the other's position admirably but I can't help feeling that somebody that really wants this model and doesn't have a detailed knowledge of the prototype could be put off because of - I don't know - peer pressure? The sense that "if I buy, I will be wrong because Mr X and Mr Y said so"? That would be a shame and I am confident that no-one has set out to make people feel that way (quite the opposite with some of the supporting information shared) but sometimes, when you read through the thread... For my part, I shall carry on deliberating and (like a few posts above) by the time I climb down from the fence, they'll all be gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I am still undecided as to whether to buy or not. On the one hand, I feel I should (have Falcon, Kestral (sic) and Lion) and I have looked at some photos that lead to me to think it would be worthwhile. I have also seen photos that show it in a less than favourable light. Not forgetting that it is a "small plastic train", the debate thus far has been fascinating. Both sides haved acknowledged the other's position admirably but I can't help feeling that somebody that really wants this model and doesn't have a detailed knowledge of the prototype could be put off because of - I don't know - peer pressure? The sense that "if I buy, I will be wrong because Mr X and Mr Y said so"? That would be a shame and I am confident that no-one has set out to make people feel that way (quite the opposite with some of the supporting information shared) but sometimes, when you read through the thread... For my part, I shall carry on deliberating and (like a few posts above) by the time I climb down from the fence, they'll all be gone. Matt, there were some available at Railex at the weekend, so they should be around for a while, I would hope. If they're not, why not? Surely Heljan would produce enough to satisfy demand and not run out quite so soon having spent so much (much?) on development..? As with everything, it'll be down to choice; both sides have had their say on here and probable the best advice offered is try and find one and have a good look at it, in the flesh... and from that make up your own mind and don't be swayed by others. What this thread provides is some "knowledge" so that your decision can be from an informed perspective, but it'll clearly be your decision as it is with us all. The model will have appeal in lots of aspects; with the fleet you mentioned it would sit well; what no DELTIC? (I'm not shouting, I'm just stating it's name correctly). So, don't decide now... try and see one first and then decide (or find a seller that will give a refund if not fully satisfied as I would expect most shoudl do) Goodluck with your choice, and I hope that either way it brings you the satisfaction you wish for. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy P Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 .......Goodluck with your choice, and I hope that either way it brings you the satisfaction you wish for. Jon Nicely put. Can this be our motto? RP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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