the penguin of doom Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Hi Sean Just a thought, if its just the cabs that are not right would using Extreme Etchings Deltic cab fronts correct it easier than hacking a Deltic? Ian Hi Ian. I don't think the extreme etchings supply a full front. There are windscreens and cab side windows available, but I think that more drastic surgery would be needed to correct this area. I wouldn't fancy taking on that conversion to be honest. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 You're quite right mark54. I have just checked a drawing and there is a definate taper inwards towards the front of the cab roof. This taper is also present on my Bachmann Deltics too. Cheers. Sean. Yes Sean, they do... was just about to say the same thing. This error is there on the Heljan O gauge 55 so hardly surprising it's here, the cab roof tapers inwards from the rear of the cab (full width)... by the door, to the windscreen area... so the screens will be smaller than shown here. Maybe using the EE etches will help, but you'll need to remove a lot of material around the front end first to get the proportions right... and yes, that bonnet top is too bulbous. Shame, the bogie sit height is nice - shame the bogies lack depth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Anyone got a pic of the cab roof to clarify? I think you are correct in that the roof should taper in front of the cab doors but I don't have a Bachmann model or any prototype pics to hand right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I have to be honest here and say the photos on here made it look really badly mis-proportioned. In the Heljan display case today the nose-top didn't strike me as being bulbous, and neither did I see any sort of lightbulb shape to the cab. Now, whether they'd become readily apparent under more detailed examination, or whether it's partly to do with the camera's depiction - focal lengths and all that - I don't know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aguila Wren Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 A relatively minor issue I know but I do wish Heljan could get the headcode font right; they were competely wrong on Kestrel, Lion and the Baby Deltic and they are again a mile out on DP2. I know they can be replaced but it's a shame when one of the easiest things to get right, isn't. Otherwise I do like it and will be buying one of each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Did Heljan confirm the delivery date for these at the exhibition? mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Did Heljan confirm the delivery date for these at the exhibition? mark Email from Hattons stated expected delivery next week. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Anyone got a pic of the cab roof to clarify? I think you are correct in that the roof should taper in front of the cab doors but I don't have a Bachmann model or any prototype pics to hand right now. I can post you one tomorrow morning if you like bluex5, but it will be of my current work in progress which is, of course, DP2..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEngineShed Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Anyone got a pic of the cab roof to clarify? This shot shows the cab narrowing. Follow the grey / green line on the roof. Note the rain strips follow the grey / green inward... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Thanks gents. I was pretty sure it SHOULD taper but the supplied pic leaves me in no doubt. What a strange error, as Mr Penguin says there are plenty of Deltics still lurking about (and a couple of cab units!). Frustrating because the rest of it looks so much better than previous attempts. Will still be fulfilling my order though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Could it possibly be that the guttering is too pronounced? Anyway, if it's due out next week I guess this must be the final shape of it. Not much hope for any last minute modifications now I'd immagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 This shot shows the cab narrowing. Follow the grey / green line on the roof. Note the rain strips follow the grey / green inward... Now you've posted this picture it quite put me off. How on earth can they make such an obvious mistake. Surely they would have looked at Bachmann ones as well as drawings/pictures/scans? Heljan seem to be having real issues getting cabs and noses right at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted February 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think there is scope for DapolDave to start up again with their DP2 ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 27, 2012 A relatively minor issue I know but I do wish Heljan could get the headcode font right; they were competely wrong on Kestrel, Lion and the Baby Deltic and they are again a mile out on DP2. I know they can be replaced but it's a shame when one of the easiest things to get right, isn't. I couldn't agree more. And what make's it worse is that it was correct on earlier models, so why have they changed font? If you look at photos on Hattons or others, it seems they've done it with the loco numbering (e.g. newest Class 26s) too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 27, 2012 I took these at Model Rail Scotland yesterday (Friday) at the Heljan stand.... taken through the glass.. Enjoy. Regards Tony I'm not sure that the yellow panel on this one is big enough - and the OHL warning flashes should be further round: http://www.flickr.co...N08/6824995829/. I also agree that the windscreens look wide compared to a production Deltic. It's odd that Heljan would get that (and the other things such as cab window rivets) wrong when they have the cads of their O gauge Deltic to copy. If not what did they base their cads on? There were so many differences between DP2's and the production Deltic's bodies (both roof and bodysides) perhaps there were some differences in the areas currenty being discussed too? It's very difficult to tell, but looking at these photos http://www.flickr.co...N05/6227252425/ and http://www.flickr.co...els/3800992562/, there does appear to be a slight bulge around the cab windows. Did DP2's cab roof taper the same as the production Deltics. We seem to be assuming so, but is there photographic evidence to confirm? EDIT: Found another http://www.flickr.com/photos/norbet/3027285708/, maybe it does... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 It's odd that Heljan would get that (and the other things such as cab window rivets) wrong when they have the cads of their O gauge Deltic to copy. If not what did they base their cads on? Did DP2's cab roof taper the same as the production Deltics. We seem to be assuming so, but is there photographic evidence to confirm? I think they did copy their O gauge Deltic - 'cause that's wrong too. DP2 was built in a Deltic bodyshell - the spare one that EE had at the time. It'll therefore be the same as the Deltics... or rather it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 All the taper issues on the cab roof are certainly subtle, if this aerial shot of 55015 is anything to go by. It's possible to discern something, but there's almost an optical illusion telling you that the window, gutter and edge of the white surround are parallel, when in fact they may follow the gentle narrowing of the loco ends. http://www.flickr.co...57624287788567/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think there is scope for DapolDave to start up again with their DP2 ..... I would be inclined to agree Redgate. I remember reading that they would put their development on hold until Heljan released theirs. Perhaps they'll reconsider now?..... With regards to the taper, I can't post pictures because of copyright laws, but I have a lot of prints from researching my model. There is a definate inward taper towards the cab fronts although I do not have one from above/ahead, so cannot confirm if the taper is the same on the Deltics. As Jon quite rightly mentions above, DP2 was produced from a production Deltic shell, so I see no reason why the taper would not be the same on DP2. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 When I was looking at it in the glass case (very closely) on Friday I thought it looked too square and a bit put off by it. It's like they tapered the sides but not the windows.... I love this loco but I was not convinced with the shape of the of the nose (to the point of maybe cancelling my order). Is it supposed to be the exact same as a Deltic? How accurate is a Bachy Deltic? Comparing the shape it looks nothing like it and I think my photos show this. Maybe Dapol should do this loco after all..... Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 When I was looking at it in the glass case (very closely) on Friday I thought it looked too square and a bit put off by it. It's like they tapered the sides but not the windows.... I love this loco but I was not convinced with the shape of the of the nose (to the point of maybe cancelling my order). Is it supposed to be the exact same as a Deltic? How accurate is a Bachy Deltic? Comparing the shape it looks nothing like it and I think my photos show this. Maybe Dapol should do this loco after all..... Tony Hi Tony. I have lined up the Bachmann Deltic up against the drawings I have of the Deltics and DP2 and as far as I can tell, the Bachmann taper is correct for both. I stress that the drawings may not be 100% and they're not from an official works drawing, but they're close enough for me. The problem with DP2 is that there are not many photo's out there, (although more and more seem to be surfacing), and I'm not aware of an official drawing. One can only assume that given that DP2 was constructed within the Deltic build at English Electric, (between D9017 and D9018 I believe, but I will be happy to be corrected), that the cabs of both the Deltics and DP2 must be the same. I reckon the only way we can be certain is by viewing a photo of DP2, or getting our hands on some official drawings or getting it from the horses mouth so to speak. Until then, I'm happy to go with the theory that they're both the same as that seems to be the way it looks. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mcowgill Posted February 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 27, 2012 One can only assume that given that DP2 was constructed within the Deltic build at English Electric, (between D9017 and D9018 I believe, but I will be happy to be corrected), that the cabs of both the Deltics and DP2 must be the same. I reckon the only way we can be certain is by viewing a photo of DP2, or getting our hands on some official drawings or getting it from the horses mouth so to speak. . I can't remember where I read this but it was somewhere recently (possibly the Modern Locos Illustrated Class 50 issue), EE asked permission from BR to use one of the Deltic locos already under construction on the production line as the basis for DP2, presumably they needed approval as it would delay the delivery of the later Deltics. There's no reason to suspect that externally DP2 was any different to a Deltic other than the modifications to the bodysides and roof between the cab bulkheads, I would be very surprised if there was any difference in the dimensions/shape of the cabs and noses as DP2 started life as a Deltic before being sidelined for the project. The photos of the Heljan loco are shouting at me saying something is wrong, much more so than a Bachmann Deltic. Such a shame as the way it sits on it's bogies is wonderful. A Heljan Tubby Boat to go with a Tubby Duff??? Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'd be inclined to agree with you mcowgill. I'd actually read somewhere before that there were originally 23 Deltics ordered and that the order was reduced to 22 thus leaving a spare shell for DP2. Not 100% sure about this though, so don't quote me. Either way, it seems the general feeling is that both Deltic and DP2 cabs should be the same profile. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not 100% sure about this though, so don't quote me. Either way, it seems the general feeling is that both Deltic and DP2 cabs should be the same profile. Cheers. Sean. I'd go with that. Now we wait on word from Dapol...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sean is right as far as I'm aware, the bodyshell used for DP2 was purloined from approximatly no.17 on the production line. The exact reasons are lost to time, weather it was down to the cancellation of no.23 or EE simply built another shell which would of been simple enough with all the jigs and ,materials on hand for the D9000 production run which was ongoing. Profile and shape wise it is the same as a Type 5, no question, although alot of internal mods were made to the floor to accomodate the larger and heavier 16CSVT setup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I've just cancelled my order for DP2 (sorry Hattons). Have I done the right thing? I think so. When I saw it for the first time (at Model Rail Scotland) my heart sank and if supposed to be the same shape as a Deltic well then I think I've made the right decision. I don't want to be looking at £100+ worth of plastic & metal and not liking it. It has even crossed my mind to do a cut and shunt with a the cabs off a Bachmann.. It sounds silly but I feel a little bit sad that after seeing the prototype and having to cancel the order. @ Dapol Dave if you are reading this and are rethinking of doing DP2 you will have your first order from me. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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